Moody's Utah 58 Apache

[alexMoody]

Hello all, Ive been MIA for a few years. I had a chance to move to Newport Beach CA for a few years to live for free all for the name of work so I did. That meant putting a hold on a few projects. I had a 59 but sold it because I didnt want it sitting in a friends garage while i was gone. I found a 58 through a friend and when i moved back to Utah, I bought a house and started back up on the truck.

This one is also in really good shape. Much better than my last one. I got it from a guy that got it from Washington. This was a National Guard truck. Its been painted five different colors that ive seen so far. Here are some pictures of the bad areas. The brown in the pictures are from the paint.

Its got the 6 cyl engine in it but my old man got me a 350 for $200 when I looked up the number on the block it came up with a corvette website. It came out of a van.

[alexMoody]

here are a few more pictures

[Gribbs]

Welcome (back) to the apache life! Doesn't look too bad, since you can get panels for all the spots you show that need to be cut/welded. What is with the kick ups in the frame on both sides? I've never seen that on our frames before.

[alexMoody]

Originally Posted by Gribbs

Welcome (back) to the apache life! Doesn't look too bad, since you can get panels for all the spots you show that need to be cut/welded. What is with the kick ups in the frame on both sides? I've never seen that on our frames before.

The kick ups on the outside of the frame is right about the rear axle. The one in the middle support bar is just bent

[55dude]

nothing wrong with a chey 250 6 cylinder.

[alexMoody]

Im wondering if anyone that has this same motor could post some pictures of there wiring. My motor will turn but i cant seem to get it to fire up. I think im missing something.

So to be clear im looking for reference pictures for wiring for the six cylinder with the motor generator.

Thanks y'all

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by 55dude

nothing wrong with a chey 250 6 cylinder.

Especially since he doesn't have one, ha ha!

BUT, since a 250 was brought up here’s a picture of one I post whenever guys are planning to do away with a good running straight six. If mine had had a good six in it I would have done this instead of the LS swap I did. Oh well, live and learn.

[alexMoody]

Got the 235 to start and run for a bit, so i decided to upgrade to an alternator sense the generator looked rough and was hard to spin. Its a 1 wire. Im hoping I wired it up correctly for the time being. There is no ignition switch currently and want to keep using the foot starter.

Any of you experts care to chime in on if i did this correctly?

Alternator terminal to the battery then T2 to the alternator terminal and added a ground.

[57tailgater]

Maybe this orientation will help.

[mr48chev]

I have several wiring diagrams saved in this album. That's not a one wire alternator though. https://app.photobucket.com/u/mr48ch...7-2e4f6ad7da37

[alexMoody]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

I have several wiring diagrams saved in this album. That's not a one wire alternator though. https://app.photobucket.com/u/mr48ch...7-2e4f6ad7da37

That’s very odd, it says on the box it came in “1 wire alternator”. All those wiring diagrams are based on having an ignition switch. Which I currently do not. I don’t have any electrical components or dash gauges at all.

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by alexMoody

That’s very odd, it says on the box it came in “1 wire alternator”. All those wiring diagrams are based on having an ignition switch. Which I currently do not. I don’t have any electrical components or dash gauges at all.

if it's a true 1 wire alternator, it has an internally connected regulator and you shouldn't need the wire going to #2 plug. it should've had a rubber plug on 1&2. if it came that way, you got hosed i've run many alternators that way, it does work, very well at that

i can see it's an out west truck, i haven't seen a splash shield on the cab corner since the 70s

[alexMoody]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

if it's a true 1 wire alternator, it has an internally connected regulator and you shouldn't need the wire going to #2 plug. it should've had a rubber plug on 1&2. if it came that way, you got hosed i've run many alternators that way, it does work, very well at that

i can see it's an out west truck, i haven't seen a splash shield on the cab corner since the 70s

It was a military truck to some degree before I got it and it came from the Washington national guard. The paint code says SPEC on it and under the red is OD green.

I know that this next question has been hashed around, however id appreciate some input. Id like to add an oil filter, I know it doesn't actually filter that much sense the block hasn't been machined. That being said with the set up on the block with the triangle plate towards the front. Would doing the spin on filter be acceptable or should I find a replacement bypass canister? I know that these 235s don't need a filter system, just looking to give a little extra help for this old girl.

At this point I'm waiting for parts to arrive to do the wiring before reassembly.

With the alternator hooked up, new plugs and wire, rebuild carb. She fires right up and runs pretty good.

[daveshilling]

Originally Posted by alexMoody

I know that this next question has been hashed around, however id appreciate some input. Id like to add an oil filter, I know it doesn't actually filter that much sense the block hasn't been machined. That being said with the set up on the block with the triangle plate towards the front. Would doing the spin on filter be acceptable or should I find a replacement bypass canister? I know that these 235s don't need a filter system, just looking to give a little extra help for this old girl.

Considering how little the filter actually does, and how nice modern oil is, and how few miles you'll put on that oil compared to the modern vehicles its designed for, I'd leave it plugged and just change the oil once a year unless you drive the truck often.

If I insisted on having a filter, it would be a trans-dapt and spin-on for me so replacements are simple and easy, plus it just looks cleaner with the filter down low v. bolted to the manifold. I assume if you cared about looking factory, you wouldn't even be asking and would already plan for an OEM filter.

[burnin oil]

Not a true 1 wire but functions the same. Check your voltage output. It may charge hard all the time.

[1project2many]

A true "1 wire" alternator uses an internal connection in the place of the red wire from the output to the voltage sense wire. They have only 1 wire connected to the alternator.

I used to run alternators like your setup but I now recommend adding the missing wire. Originally the missing circuit was powered with ignition power (key on) through EITHER a dash warning light OR a volt gauge. The circuit creates a small magnetic field to form in the rotor which will allow the alternator to start charging almost as soon as the rotor begins to turn. Without the circuit connected the alternator does not begin to charge until residual magnetism creates enough voltage in the alternator for the circuit to self-excite. Generally this happens around 2500-3000 alternator rpm. In many cases it's not a problem. But after accidentally running a battery down by starting the engine and letting the car idle with the lights on for a *bit* I tend to recommend the exciter wire.

[dsraven]

check out the tri5 site for a free downloadable assembly manual. it will help you with some of your questions about how stuff was put together or where it goes. google 55-59 assembly manual and pick the tri5 site. it becomes valuable when you are cutting out old sheet metal for replacement as it shows where and how many spot welds you need to find and drill out.
do you have a plan for the truck? all stock just basically get it all working and safe and drive it like that? upgrade some stuff to make it easier to drive but a stock look? sometghing else?
post up some full side shots if you can, looks waaay better than my current project when I first got it.

[dsraven]

there is a cheap pigtail plug in available for those alternators once the time comes for a wiring job. I think napa sells them or online for sure. it's a 10si or a 12si alt. the rubber cover for the large power cable is also available from napa or online. if you google the delco 10si wirng you will see lots of info on how they were wired up with a dash light OR a dash volt gauge.

[dsraven]

if thinking of a rebuild on the sbc do the math first because the LS engines seem to be what everybody is upgrading to these days. the new small block swap so they say. nothing wrong with the 6 cyl or the sbc you have on the floor. just saying, fuel injection-easy starts, good idle, less finicky with elevation changes, programmable fuel curve, easily sourced from a write off lot with a donor vehicle that will come with a lot of the stuff you need, then sell the other not needed donor vehicle parts. you need space for all that though.
I recommend to get a plan and stick to it. less costly than changing your mind part way through.

[G&R's57GMC]

Gee engine swap’s are fun and for something a bit different one could drop in a Chevy 292 6 cylinder OR say a bit more modern (and complicated) Trailblazer 6 cylinder OR real different a S 10 5 cylinder .
Now if you really want to piss off the crowd a Ford 300 6 cylinder in a Chevy !
Perhaps a Dodge slant 6 with a A500 automatic .
Or something made of unobtainum like a Pontiac Overhead cam 6 .

The preceding madness brought to you by “Wandering Minds” after too much ….

['68OrangeSunshine]

Originally Posted by G&R's57GMC

Gee engine swap’s are fun and for something a bit different one could drop in a Chevy 292 6 cylinder OR say a bit more modern (and complicated) Trailblazer 6 cylinder OR real different a S 10 5 cylinder .
Now if you really want to piss off the crowd a Ford 300 6 cylinder in a Chevy !
Perhaps a Dodge slant 6 with a A500 automatic .
Or something made of unobtainum like a Pontiac Overhead cam 6 .

The preceding madness brought to you by “Wandering Minds” after too much ….

The Ford 300 I-6 is just a copy of the Chevy L-25 292 L6. The L-25 came out in late '62 for the 1963 Model Year. Ford just reverse engineered* the design, and bored it over .060 -- releasing it in 1965.
*[Literally, the 300 has the intake/exhaust and carb on the passenger side. While the Chevy L6's are on the drivers side.]
Chrysler Slant Sixes only came as big as 225 CI. Contrary to Urban Myth, they were not originally one-half of a surplus Allison V12 aircraft engine block. The 30* offset design was borrowed from Mercedes Benz [M186] who used it to get lower hood lines on the SL300 Gull Wing

[dsraven]

I have the gmc envoy 4.2L in my 57. it is the atlas engine that the inline 5 and inline 4 from the smaller chevy trucks post S10 have. they simply lop off a cylinder or 2.

[G&R's57GMC]

dsraven That's cool !

How about this 225 c.i. (3.7L) Slant 6 with an Aussie 4v manifold 3 into 1 headers , cam etc. or 3 Weber's this would look cool under the hood and go !

Ok back to the O.P.

[_Ogre]

i found the perfect motor for alexmoody.... providing he checks in again this year
the I6 is back! 3.0L twin turbo 500hp, it's mopar but who cares anymore

though i'd have to cut all that plastic off to see the motor

[alexMoody]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

i found the perfect motor for alexmoody.... providing he checks in again this year
the I6 is back! 3.0L twin turbo 500hp, it's mopar but who cares anymore

though i'd have to cut all that plastic off to see the motor

Alright, I know im not on here much, I travel alot for work and especially with a new baby. Time is limited.

I think ill stick with the 235 that is in it for now but i wont rule anything out yet.

Ive done some work, new brake booster on the firewall. wiring harness has been started a few patch panels.

For the brake lines on these old rigs, are they all 1/4 or are they 3/16. I want to order new lines and re do them all front to back?