Drum brake '65 seeks attractive front end drop....

[Slemmy]

Hello All,

I posted this in the suspension foprum and didn't get any bites -- hoping I'll have better luck here.

Looking to drop my '65 c10 front end 3.5" or 4" and I need some advice. I've been reading threads on here for hours and I'm getting lots of conflicting information. How are you successfully dropping your 60-66 front ends without having any clearance issues? I need to do it without converting to disc brakes in the front (wheels are drum only). 2.5" drop spindles and 2" springs would be ideal, but I believe spindles are out of the question because of the drums brakes, correct? My concerns are clearance issues inside my stock inner fender and drivability.

Here are my stats:

236 75/R15 tires
Drum Brakes
15x6" steel wheels with 3.625" backspacing

Thanks a million in advance!

[AcampoDave]

Slemmy, the truth is....the lower you go, the more it costs to do it right. The amount of drop you are wanting is best accomplished with a drop spindle/spring combo and yeah, disc brakes. Then you have to bring the back down to match....6" or more if you want it balance out well. More $$ in springs, drop shocks, shock and panhard bar relocators, and probably a pipe notch on the frame. You said yourself that you were concerned with driveability. Slamming a truck and having driveablity require some modifications and upgrades.

[Cris]

Slemmy, I feel your pain.

Lately, I have been pestering vendors to make a drop spindle for drum brakes. They always say there isn't enough interest. I tell them to check the forums!

There are plenty of guys who are happy with drum brakes and don't want to go down the road of new calipers, rotors, master cylinders and/or proportioning valves, etc, etc.

[mixermike]

I would buy a set of spindles for my 63 with drum brakes in a heart beat if someone would make them

[AcampoDave]

Originally Posted by mixermike

I would buy a set of spindles for my 63 with drum brakes in a heart beat if someone would make them

I agree, I lowered my longbed front end with 2" springs and drop shocks but a 2.5" spindle would of been a better alternative. Then I could of had full spring travel with standard shocks and that extra half inch drop probably would have resulted in the perfect rake after the rear came down by 4".

[Slemmy]

Originally Posted by AcampoDave

I agree, I lowered my longbed front end with 2" springs and drop shocks but a 2.5" spindle would of been a better alternative. Then I could of had full spring travel with standard shocks and that extra half inch drop probably would have resulted in the perfect rake after the rear came down by 4".

Curious about how your ride quality is with drop springs and shocks? Anything you don't like about the setup? I purchased a 5" rear and 3" front drop setup from POL that includes springs, shocks, and shock relocation brackets, as well as rear spring retainers for the trailing arms (I needed them because the previous owner had the springs cut and resting on the trailing arms without the retainer cups). I'm thinking that this may be the best option without spending the money for new front wheels, disc brakes, and spindles, etc. Anyone else running this setup?

[AcampoDave]

The ride is decent. The 2/4 drop kit included kyb drop shocks, rear relocators and an adjustable panhard bar. Its sits almost level. (Longbed).

[Slemmy]

Originally Posted by AcampoDave

The ride is decent. The 2/4 drop kit included kyb drop shocks, rear relocators and an adjustable panhard bar. Its sits almost level. (Longbed).

Do you have a picture of that drop?

[chevy_mike]

With drum brakes, your choices are dropped springs or the old school way (before spindles were available) is dropped A arms. I don't think anyone is making these anymore but you could build your own (or have a fab shop do it).

This was my '68 C10 I did almost 20 years ago. SoLow built the arms but easy to replicate. Cut the end off the arm with the BJ and raise it up 2 1/2" and then gusset it up.

[Cris]

Chevy Mike:

Very cool. Did you run into any other issues such as the tie rod angles getting funky with the stock spindle moved up?

Regards, Cris

[chevy_mike]

Originally Posted by Cris

Chevy Mike:

Very cool. Did you run into any other issues such as the tie rod angles getting funky with the stock spindle moved up?

Regards, Cris

No, no issues and it rode and handled great. Had a number of people and shops tell me that after a ride.

The only issue I ran into, which could have easily been fixed is, since the upper control arm sits higher and I didn't have any bump stops for the lower, I once hit a dip too fast and caused the upper arm to rotate further than the ball joint was designed for. This cause it to loosen up and start making a knocking noise. Replace it and was fine but I should have installed correct bump stops to prevent that.

[Slemmy]

Originally Posted by chevy_mike

With drum brakes, your choices are dropped springs or the old school way (before spindles were available) is dropped A arms. I don't think anyone is making these anymore but you could build your own (or have a fab shop do it).

This was my '68 C10 I did almost 20 years ago. SoLow built the arms but easy to replicate. Cut the end off the arm with the BJ and raise it up 2 1/2" and then gusset it up.

Good thinking -- funny how some of the old school tricks are elusive to me. Thanks for the heads up. Do you have any pics of how she is sitting?

[chevy_mike]

Originally Posted by Slemmy

Good thinking -- funny how some of the old school tricks are elusive to me. Thanks for the heads up. Do you have any pics of how she is sitting?

Only pictures I have (this was pre digital camera days...)

[Slemmy]

Originally Posted by chevy_mike

Only pictures I have (this was pre digital camera days...)

Great looking truck. I have a '69 longbed myself. Thanks for digging that up for me.

So my options seem to be :

1. $$$$ Dic brake conversion, drop spindles, new wheels (or spacers and caliper grinding), etc

or:

2. $$ 3" drop Lower control arms (with bump stops per Chevy Mike's input). These seems to fit the bill:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/d...del/c10-pickup

I feel like the brakes on my truck are more than adequate, so I'm considering the control arm route. Any other things I should keep in mind here? I feel like both of these options are giving me a drop without sacrificing travel, right?

[AcampoDave]

I need to get a good side shot for you.Maybe this weekend if I get a chance....Oh what the hell....I'll go get you one now. Just gotta get the truck out. It's a mess of dust but this isn't a thread about soap and water. Gimme a while and I'll be back. Ok finding level ground around my house for a pic was not too easy, the truck is parked level but the ground slopes fore and aft.

[AcampoDave]

I did have a couple angle shots stored in my tablet which show the bumper heights

[Slemmy]

Originally Posted by AcampoDave

I did have a couple angle shots stored in my tablet which show the bumper heights

Great looking truck!!! That's a perfect stance. Looks pretty close to where mine is now. I'm going to try and get in touch with Wheel Vintiques about the wheels I bought. I really think they should clear the calipers. If that's true then I'm in business. Just need to start researching all that a front disc conversion needs. Another example of how these projects snowball into others!! Drop = spindles = disc brake conversion. Ah well, labor of love!!
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[WOLFMANmike]

Originally Posted by Slemmy

Great looking truck!!! That's a perfect stance. Looks pretty close to where mine is now. I'm going to try and get in touch with Wheel Vintiques about the wheels I bought. I really think they should clear the calipers. If that's true then I'm in business. Just need to start researching all that a front disc conversion needs. Another example of how these projects snowball into others!! Drop = spindles = disc brake conversion. Ah well, labor of love!!
Posted via Mobile Device

I would not touch anything cheap like monroes and stuff like that. I believe if you go with the Nodular CPP spindles you can get Bilstein shocks and those are a great shock for a quality Ride Ask Chevy Mike about them he will tell you all you need to know

[WOLFMANmike]

Originally Posted by Slemmy

Hello All,

I posted this in the suspension foprum and didn't get any bites -- hoping I'll have better luck here.

Looking to drop my '65 c10 front end 3.5" or 4" and I need some advice. I've been reading threads on here for hours and I'm getting lots of conflicting information. How are you successfully dropping your 60-66 front ends without having any clearance issues? I need to do it without converting to disc brakes in the front (wheels are drum only). 2.5" drop spindles and 2" springs would be ideal, but I believe spindles are out of the question because of the drums brakes, correct? My concerns are clearance issues inside my stock inner fender and drivability.

Here are my stats:

236 75/R15 tires
Drum Brakes
15x6" steel wheels with 3.625" backspacing

Thanks a million in advance!

i have to honest with ya brother .. if your looking for drive ability ... i have a coil spring and shock drop . it is not a good ride at all .. it rides like a brick ... because the stock bump stops are to tall they are removed so that its not sitting on the stops and has some travel ... but then when it does travel enough ? with no stops on it . it hits the sway bar bushings in the front ... next the rear does ok as long as you use good shocks .. when it comes to ride quality cheap shocks do not bode well at all .... you said something about having to buy new wheels if you did the disk conversion ? im just curious why ? because they make a 6 lug disk for our trucks ... so that there is no need to buy wheels .... and the best drop spindles on the market for our trucks are the CPP Nodular 2inch drops ... not to bad on price either ... basically if only do coils and shocks .. you give up travel . and when you give up the travel you get a very bad ride .. just something to think about ... happy truckin

[Slemmy]

Originally Posted by WOLFMANmike

i have to honest with ya brother .. if your looking for drive ability ... i have a coil spring and shock drop . it is not a good ride at all .. it rides like a brick ... because the stock bump stops are to tall they are removed so that its not sitting on the stops and has some travel ... but then when it does travel enough ? with no stops on it . it hits the sway bar bushings in the front ... next the rear does ok as long as you use good shocks .. when it comes to ride quality cheap shocks do not bode well at all .... you said something about having to buy new wheels if you did the disk conversion ? im just curious why ? because they make a 6 lug disk for our trucks ... so that there is no need to buy wheels .... and the best drop spindles on the market for our trucks are the CPP Nodular 2inch drops ... not to bad on price either ... basically if only do coils and shocks .. you give up travel . and when you give up the travel you get a very bad ride .. just something to think about ... happy truckin

I need to rethink my approach. Sounds like spindles and springs is the best option for the front, even if it means having to get new wheels. I'd like to get a nice drop going, but I'm not willing to give up ride quality for it. The reason I will have to buy new wheels is that the Wheel Vintiques 15x6 steelies I have are made for drum only (according to the rep from the company). But I'd rather buy new wheels and get the job done right the first time. Seems strange that WV would even make a wheel that was drum only. The rear will be notched, so I'm not worried about the rear and clearance.

Can anyone recommend shocks? I've been recommended to do some research on Monroe Magnum shocks by my mechanic. He's had great successes using them on some of his restoration projects. Any suggestions are of course welcomed!

Here are some pics of the ride height now, including a pic of the hack job the PO did with the rear suspension (spring retainer cups are gone and springs are resting on the trailing arms) Front springs are shorter than stock (not sure how much) and the ride quality ain't bad, but I'd like to bring the front end down and have the rear sit about where it is now, which by my estimation is about a 5" drop.

This forum has provided a wealth of resources and info, especially when I was doing my T5 swap. Saved a bunch of time and money. Happy to be a part of the community!
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[AcampoDave]

What the Wolfman just said is why I only went with a 2/4. I still have some travel before the bumpstops hit. For general crusing around the ride is good although bigger bumps will hit the stops. They seem to take it pretty well tho'.

[The Rocknrod]

I think a company called DJM makes lowered control arms for our trucks also:
https://www.summitracing.com/search/...oview=SKU&ar=1

[AcampoDave]

Nice truck. The main reason new wheels are needed (even though 6 lug rotors are available) is because the o.e.m style 6 lug rims wont clear a caliper. Good luck on your project. Youll be glad you did it right.

[AcampoDave]

Chevymikes control arms are 2.5" dropped (not 3")

[Slemmy]

Originally Posted by AcampoDave

Chevymikes control arms are 2.5" dropped (not 3")

I saw that. The link to the arms on Summit Racing are 3" drops, which is exactly where I want to be.