Pros cons on complete AC systems

[binford]

I want to replace my factory AC.
Have LS engine.

1 Brothers kit $1,500
2 Vintage Air IV $1,500

I've seen a couple other brands too.

The prices are about right the same.

Foot well clearance between the different systems?
Performance between the different systems?
I live in a hot dry summer climate.

Any pros or cons?

[MidLifer]

I’ve had a Vintage Air system in my truck for a couple years.

First of all they are awesome and stand by their product. My heater flow valve developed an issue and they sent me a new one no questions asked.

Second there are board vendors who sell Vintage Air and support this board. I got mine from MCB. Excellent service too.

Third, my system fits fully behind the dash so no difference in the footwell. You will lose most of your glovebox though. I bought the one that mimics the factory vents so nothing sticks out below the dash.

Fourth the thing works great in both a/c and heat mode. However, and I believe this is the issue with all aftermarket a/c, you will see an increase in fogging of your windshield and windows. I offset that either by opening a butterfly window or opening the kick panel vents a bit.

I have no experience with the Brothers system but I have good experience with VA and recommend them.

[68Gold/white]

Midlifer,
You say you lost most of your glove box??? Can a factory aC glove box insert still be used??? (the insert being the cardboard factory innards of the glove box)

Factory non AC pickups have a full inner compartment, tht the factory glove boxes, do not...
Thanks!!!

[MidLifer]

Nope. The Vintage Air kit includes a plastic insert that is about 3" deep. The system uses the space where the glovebox otherwise would be.

Here's a picture of what it looks like: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...8&postcount=16

[68Gold/white]

Thanks!!! Glad they supply that insert!

[lutronjim]

Might add that VA does not have a 'box' outside on the firewall - its all under dash hince the reduced glove box.

[randy500]

Both systems are just a big piece of jc whitney type blow molded components. Super cheasy install parts and overall a big piece of garbage compared to the factory system.

[binford]

Thanks for the replies.
I did find a guy that fully rebuilds the stock units, but adds R134 evaporator.
In the end still about the same price.

I'm looking for a cold cab. I don't have the solar ray glass that reflects a lot of heat.

I am adding the firewall and tranny Heatshield insulation/

[randy500]

Vintage air is way undersized evaporator fan and ducting.
No fresh air with those systems either which doesn't help cooling but does effect comfort.
If you want cold then use the stock system with R12, it was designed for R12 and R12 is legal and available to install in it. The cost of R12 isnt that much when considering the total cost of the system. Besides R12 is a 100% thta it will cool properly, 134 freq has issues with charge volume and condensers.

[Andy4639]

If you have all the factory AC stuff go back with it. All you need is a few parts to go to 134-A.

If you do the factory AC right and have it charged up right you can have 134-A in it and it will work just fine. But you will need to swap some parts out. Here is my old 305 motor with stock looking AC with modern guts. It blows 38* air on low. It's running 134-A. Good air flow through the radiator and good fans make a big difference in AC performance.
Making sure the hot water is closed when AC is running makes a big difference in cab temperatures.
Keeping the air flow on the condenser, there are many small things that help get the cab cool.

[binford]

Thanks Andy, I saw your truck in the forum when searching.

[tdangle]

Originally Posted by Andy4639

If you have all the factory AC stuff go back with it. All you need is a few parts to go to 134-A.

If you do the factory AC right and have it charged up right you can have 134-A in it and it will work just fine. But you will need to swap some parts out. Here is my old 305 motor with stock looking AC with modern guts. It blows 38* air on low. It's running 134-A. Good air flow through the radiator and good fans make a big difference in AC performance.
Making sure the hot water is closed when AC is running makes a big difference in cab temperatures.
Keeping the air flow on the condenser, there are many small things that help get the cab cool.

Hey Andy,
Was that at kit you bought or something you put together?

[MidLifer]

Sounds like the stock system is a much better performer than VA. (Though I haven't really had any issues with my VA, the cab stays nice and cool even with clear glass).

Since I've already cut the holes in the dash for the VA vents, is it possible to install a stock system in a truck that didn't come with A/C from the factory? Just a matter of obtaining the parts?

[Thealien]

Originally Posted by MidLifer

Sounds like the stock system is a much better performer than VA. (Though I haven't really had any issues with my VA, the cab stays nice and cool even with clear glass).

Since I've already cut the holes in the dash for the VA vents, is it possible to install a stock system in a truck that didn't come with A/C from the factory? Just a matter of obtaining the parts?

The parts, and the holes in the firewall are different. It can be done. Out of my abilities though.

[Andy4639]

Originally Posted by tdangle

Hey Andy,
Was that at kit you bought or something you put together?

Classic air group was where I bought the condenser and compressor stuff. The accumaltor, office tube was late 80's pickup I did myself.
Here is the kit.
Here is the same kit just with my LS 6.0 motor.

https://www.originalair.com/67-72-ch...t-134a-stage-2

[binford]

The Vintage air is 17,000 BTUs
That's the size used in mid sized SUV.
Stock is 36,000 BTUs

I plan on adding a lot of insulation to keep the heat out of the cab.
My stock system was ok, but the front compressor seal kept leaking.

I'll make a decision in the morning

[Custom 68]

I am curious as well. Mine is factory however with my swap I am running the new compressor and years ago I did the POA elimination. Because I am using the poa elimination I have thought about changing over the the setup like Andy has done with the Orifice. Mine works but not as good as I think it could or should. If have looked for my original POA in hopes I kept it as it seems I have almost everything else. If I did I would adjust it and give it a try.
That should be pretty easy but I do need a few parts. Where is the orifice tube go in this setup? I would think a few parts from the local auto store would get me there.
Dave

[chevy71super]

I have VA and couldn’t be happier. I installed mine almost 20 years ago. My truck will sit for months at a time. No issues. Never had to recharge, blows colder than my 2019 Malibu. Sure the factory system has been over engineered for our small cab pickup. But technology does improve.

If your original system has been neglected a new VA system is worth the price. I disagree with Randy500. They are well engineered systems.
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[binford]

Originally Posted by MidLifer

Sounds like the stock system is a much better performer than VA. (Though I haven't really had any issues with my VA, the cab stays nice and cool even with clear glass).

Since I've already cut the holes in the dash for the VA vents, is it possible to install a stock system in a truck that didn't come with A/C from the factory? Just a matter of obtaining the parts?

Performance is measured in different ways.
BTU rating give us a rating, but you can't compare apples with oranges.
Which is what we would be doing between stock and VA products.
The evaporator in the cab vs the engine bay. That's a huge difference.

I called a friend who has a 69 Blazer and Vintage Air. He said at 100 is ok, at 110 you need shorts and a tee shirt for a long drive.

I ordered some Design Engineering heat shield, designed for under vehicle application from Summit racing. I going order the VA system as it all new and I like moving it into the cab, even though it's tight. My stock AC takes up a fair bit of my glove box anyway vs a non AC truck.

I done HVAC for 20 years and understand the difference between a txv and an orface.
Orface is fixed flow, like a gas stove with just one setting. The gas can only pass at a fixed rate. A txv will regulate the refrigerant flow to the max designed based on temperature.
So when the cab is hot a txv will open a send more refrigerant, when the cab cools down the refrigerant flow is decreased. So more like a throttle.

I was not super impressed with my stock AC, so with added insulation and a new system, I hope to take my significant other on a cool drive.

I have another older truck that I added a mister to help keep it cool. The one mister really helps when it's over a100 and your being slow cooked.

[MidLifer]

This is great info, very helpful to think about. Gonna stick with my VA system.

Here on the right coast, 110 doesn't happen. 95 is our average hot August afternoon. But the 90% humidity is what gets to you. My VA system does a good job on those days, but if I don't leave the vent window cracked I do get some fogging. Wish they would engineer a solution for that.

Originally Posted by binford

Performance is measured in different ways.
BTU rating give us a rating, but you can't compare apples with oranges.
Which is what we would be doing between stock and VA products.
The evaporator in the cab vs the engine bay. That's a huge difference.

I called a friend who has a 69 Blazer and Vintage Air. He said at 100 is ok, at 110 you need shorts and a tee shirt for a long drive.

I ordered some Design Engineering heat shield, designed for under vehicle application from Summit racing. I going order the VA system as it all new and I like moving it into the cab, even though it's tight. My stock AC takes up a fair bit of my glove box anyway vs a non AC truck.

I done HVAC for 20 years and understand the difference between a txv and an orface.
Orface is fixed flow, like a gas stove with just one setting. The gas can only pass at a fixed rate. A txv will regulate the refrigerant flow to the max designed based on temperature.
So when the cab is hot a txv will open a send more refrigerant, when the cab cools down the refrigerant flow is decreased. So more like a throttle.

I was not super impressed with my stock AC, so with added insulation and a new system, I hope to take my significant other on a cool drive.

I have another older truck that I added a mister to help keep it cool. The one mister really helps when it's over a100 and your being slow cooked.