47-55.1 Body mount options 51 AD

[R&B51]

I’m not the best on site searches, maybe already covered in past.
Making custom frame. Rolling chassis swap under truck. I’m close to designing tube rails to have done locally.
Planning to mount cab and bed directly to custom frame tabs. Any advice on what kind of body mount use? Cab mounts will be brackets off tube. Need ability to shim, tweak final fit.
Seems what I read says stay away from rubber and old style OE pads due to age, compression and settling body out of true.
Problems with direct mount rear cab since no heavy hauling?
Silicone, polyurethane, any experience with particular maker or kit?

[mr48chev]

How much cushion you need depends a lot on how much flex your frame is going to have. A stiff frame with independent suspension lets you have decently stiff body mount pads.

With the riveted stock frames that have an extreme amount of flexibility built in the trucks have to have the ability for the frame to flex and not twist the cab.

Assuming that you are building in an X member of some sort that will stiffen the frame you could use poly pads or biscuits Or some other material that would give a bit of cushion from the frame but still be denser than most rubber. You might check with the local industrial plastics house to see what they have as you can usually get pieces out of their remnant bin pretty reasonable when you only need small pieces to fab what you need. That would probably mean going to Tulsa

[MiraclePieCo]

The big modern isolators give a soft, quiet ride but are prone to compression and breakdown.

I use industrial conveyor belt material - it's kinda like tires with fabric plies inside to maintain it's integrity. It comes in various thicknesses and can easily be cut to shape. Industrial supply shops carry it.

The old original hardwood blocks last surprisingly well. When I've disassembled 70-year-old AD trucks the wooden blocks are still solid. The factory stapled anti-squeak pads to one side. They can be waterproofed with deck sealer.

If that's not fancy enough for you, Summit Racing sells a variety of urethane body mounts. Look through their online catalog until you find what you like.

[mr48chev]

Industrial belting is a great idea. It's also something you can pick up a remnant of at some places like Power and motion that sell belting and equipment for them. It comes in several thicknesses too. The key on a lot of these things is you want to ask if they have any small remnants rather than have them cut something for you from stock be it belting, Delrin, or other suitable material.

As MPC said, nothing wrong with good hardwood either. The last blocks I made for my 48 were cut out of an oak pallet that I snagged out of someone's scrap pallet pile. Odd size pallets don't usually get reused to ship stuff again out here in the west and I have found plenty of them made out of white oak over the years. I burned a lot of them in the wood stove when I was broke a number of years back.

[R&B51]

Thanks for the great ideas from both of you. I’ve seen a lot of posts from both of you over time and trust your experience and wisdom.
We’ve got plastic fab shops and I saw a belt conveyor shop in Tulsa as well. I’ll make some calls next week days when I can. I guess what we’re really looking for is something to take up a little bit of the shock of impacts up through the frame into the body and prevent squeaks. I like the idea of something that compresses but has the resiliency to expand after crushing so you don’t end up with a loose spot. I was kind of shocked at pricing for body mount urethane and other materials online but I guess it’s just click and ship so could reduce your time hassle if you found what you needed.
I like to hear what people like you have to say and figure and fiddle and come up with a home made solution if possible.
I’ve got a lot of white oak in different thicknesses and might get a thin piece of conveyor belt for the squeak sandwich. Do you know approximate dimensions on the oak chunks? Wood can absorb moisture side grain and then it evaporates out the end grain so that might actually be a way of moving water out of that joint and helping to reduce rust if that’s even an issue at that connection.

Do you put rubber on both sides of the wood or just one side and if so which side? Probably use a piece of oak that is plain sawn versus quarter or rift sawn to try and reduce splitting lengthwise?

This discussion sounds like one fellas could sit in the shade and whittle and talk about all afternoon until it was time to quit and go get some ice cream since there’s so many things to consider and so many pluses and minuses for each material.
As I thought about it, I know that when I build furniture or repair it, if there’s a dent in the wood, you can steam it out with moisture and heat (Even just use a steam iron like you have for clothes) and it pops right back up. The wood chunks if compressed slightly and then with moisture later on probably would swell to fit the space and be fairly elastic overtime. Good point on the white oak, I found that it is at the top of rot resistance right up there with real teak wood. Maybe not as technical as modern man made materials but God usually has us beat with nature and that’s a pretty good material there!
I’m hoping the frame will be ultra rigid. I’m using the front and rear Corvette cradles, entire stock suspension and drive line with extended torque tube and propeller shaft (send to Gamel to stretch it right) with Dobbertin adapters bolted on top to pick up suspension points and mount the frame to. The adapters have a 2 foot long L-shaped channel that you lay your frame rail in - front to back - and then bolt in place. I’ll probably put an X Frame unit in the middle working around the torque tube and exhaust to stiffen it up as you suggested mr48chevy.

The kits came with stainless steel hardware for all of the connections including those to mount aluminum cradle adapters to the steel frame. I like the idea of bolting frame to suspension to avoid welding and weakening steel frame rails.

Leading up to related questions-
The adapters allow for 2“ x 3 1/2” tube but I can extend higher than the adapters if I need to and just not use the nice decorative top plates that he sends with the kids to enclose everything from the top.
The stock Corvette frame was about 3 1/2” x 6 1/2” but only barely over 1/8th inch thick and Hydro formed. The body was a large part of the stiffness of the frame the way it was attached.
This vehicle should weigh about 600 to 800 pounds less than the Corvette with all that I threw away (difference between the weight of the A.D. truck rolling chassis and driveline and the one that came on the Corvette plus a few other things). All I have is the all aluminum drivetrain/chassis and the body on top of some steel frame rails. Both the Corvette and the old Chevy truck rolled off the assembly line at about 3200 pounds I think. I got rid of everything except for the body on the truck and this driveline is super light. I’m going to lay the frame rails in the cradles front and rear and then have them bent at a local BendMaster to pick up body mount points and get it at the proper ride height. I will have to fabricate some running board attachments as well.
Another important point in the discussion as to the power and torque this truck will have to handle, I found a super low 5000 mile C6 Corvette with body totaled and driveline untouched to use for the swap. I’m just going to leave the stock 400 horse and 400 foot pound LS2 engine alone trying to keep this as trouble free as possible. Using the stock computers and just having it re-flashed. Not changing anything on the driveline from stock except steering attachment and radiator and length and torque tube. Oh, I did cut the front and rear transverse fiberglass composite leaf springs out and converted to adjustable coil over suspension all around. Will have to re-position frame mount points for front sway bar to clear coil over shocks.
I sure hope all this fits and works
I have taken a lot of pictures as I went along.
Someday maybe I will sit down and figure out how to send pics or start a build thread.

Not going to be at the dragstrip but might take it to the local Hallett Speedway if it all works out. Mostly just driving around and enjoying it.

Sorry I’m always terrible long-winded. Finally a couple of related questions,

First,
do you think 2“ x 3“ and maybe 3/16”or 1/4” thick frame tube is enough or should I go with 2 x 4 or 2 x 6? I have had a couple of people tell me that 2 x 3 is plenty for build that weighs about 2600 pounds.

Second,
do you have opinions on fasteners from the cradle to the frame and from the body to the frame - as to the materials used (stainless steel or high-grade steel Grade 8 type) for fasteners?

[mick53]

Originally Posted by R&B51

Thanks for the great ideas from both of you. I’ve seen a lot of posts from both of you over time and trust your experience and wisdom.
We’ve got plastic fab shops and I saw a belt conveyor shop in Tulsa as well. I’ll make some calls next week days when I can. I guess what we’re really looking for is something to take up a little bit of the shock of impacts up through the frame into the body and prevent squeaks. I like the idea of something that compresses but has the resiliency to expand after crushing so you don’t end up with a loose spot. I was kind of shocked at pricing for body mount urethane and other materials online but I guess it’s just click and ship so could reduce your time hassle if you found what you needed.
I like to hear what people like you have to say and figure and fiddle and come up with a home made solution if possible.
I’ve got a lot of white oak in different thicknesses and might get a thin piece of conveyor belt for the squeak sandwich. Do you know approximate dimensions on the oak chunks? Wood can absorb moisture side grain and then it evaporates out the end grain so that might actually be a way of moving water out of that joint and helping to reduce rust if that’s even an issue at that connection.

Do you put rubber on both sides of the wood or just one side and if so which side? Probably use a piece of oak that is plain sawn versus quarter or rift sawn to try and reduce splitting lengthwise?

This discussion sounds like one fellas could sit in the shade and whittle and talk about all afternoon until it was time to quit and go get some ice cream since there’s so many things to consider and so many pluses and minuses for each material.
As I thought about it, I know that when I build furniture or repair it, if there’s a dent in the wood, you can steam it out with moisture and heat (Even just use a steam iron like you have for clothes) and it pops right back up. The wood chunks if compressed slightly and then with moisture later on probably would swell to fit the space and be fairly elastic overtime. Good point on the white oak, I found that it is at the top of rot resistance right up there with real teak wood. Maybe not as technical as modern man made materials but God usually has us beat with nature and that’s a pretty good material there!
I’m hoping the frame will be ultra rigid. I’m using the front and rear Corvette cradles, entire stock suspension and drive line with extended torque tube and propeller shaft (send to Gamel to stretch it right) with Dobbertin adapters bolted on top to pick up suspension points and mount the frame to. The adapters have a 2 foot long L-shaped channel that you lay your frame rail in - front to back - and then bolt in place. I’ll probably put an X Frame unit in the middle working around the torque tube and exhaust to stiffen it up as you suggested mr48chevy.

The kits came with stainless steel hardware for all of the connections including those to mount aluminum cradle adapters to the steel frame. I like the idea of bolting frame to suspension to avoid welding and weakening steel frame rails.

Leading up to related questions-
The adapters allow for 2“ x 3 1/2” tube but I can extend higher than the adapters if I need to and just not use the nice decorative top plates that he sends with the kids to enclose everything from the top.
The stock Corvette frame was about 3 1/2” x 6 1/2” but only barely over 1/8th inch thick and Hydro formed. The body was a large part of the stiffness of the frame the way it was attached.
This vehicle should weigh about 600 to 800 pounds less than the Corvette with all that I threw away (difference between the weight of the A.D. truck rolling chassis and driveline and the one that came on the Corvette plus a few other things). All I have is the all aluminum drivetrain/chassis and the body on top of some steel frame rails. Both the Corvette and the old Chevy truck rolled off the assembly line at about 3200 pounds I think. I got rid of everything except for the body on the truck and this driveline is super light. I’m going to lay the frame rails in the cradles front and rear and then have them bent at a local BendMaster to pick up body mount points and get it at the proper ride height. I will have to fabricate some running board attachments as well.
Another important point in the discussion as to the power and torque this truck will have to handle, I found a super low 5000 mile C6 Corvette with body totaled and driveline untouched to use for the swap. I’m just going to leave the stock 400 horse and 400 foot pound LS2 engine alone trying to keep this as trouble free as possible. Using the stock computers and just having it re-flashed. Not changing anything on the driveline from stock except steering attachment and radiator and length and torque tube. Oh, I did cut the front and rear transverse fiberglass composite leaf springs out and converted to adjustable coil over suspension all around. Will have to re-position frame mount points for front sway bar to clear coil over shocks.
I sure hope all this fits and works
I have taken a lot of pictures as I went along.
Someday maybe I will sit down and figure out how to send pics or start a build thread.

Not going to be at the dragstrip but might take it to the local Hallett Speedway if it all works out. Mostly just driving around and enjoying it.

Sorry I’m always terrible long-winded. Finally a couple of related questions,

First,
do you think 2“ x 3“ and maybe 3/16”or 1/4” thick frame tube is enough or should I go with 2 x 4 or 2 x 6? I have had a couple of people tell me that 2 x 3 is plenty for build that weighs about 2600 pounds.

Second,
do you have opinions on fasteners from the cradle to the frame and from the body to the frame - as to the materials used (stainless steel or high-grade steel Grade 8 type) for fasteners?

I use ARP fasteners anywhere important. If you are going to use White Oak as you know it is open grain so I would soak it with boiled linseed oil or tung oil. You might be better off with something like hard Maple.

[R&B51]

Thanks mick53,
I’ll check em out, definitely worth it for the critical connections. I’ll call and get them to school me some on options. We put so much time in, don’t wanna go back or worse have a failure.
I’ve been trying hard to buy American any time I can.

And wow, that last post of mine way too long, I’ll try to keep shorter in future.
Sure easy to get excited about our projects.

[mick53]

When I build factories we throw away hundreds of pounds of conveyor scrap because they do not come cut to length and a 20' piece is useless. Check with a local commercial job site or contractor. If you know what you need I can check around. Also Millwrights have piles of the stuff laying around and will most likely give you as much as you need.

[mongocanfly]

heres how to post pics... http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...stimg+pictures
I would think simple poly bushing would be more than adequate... ive used it and heavy rubber before and never had any issues..

[R&B51]

Thanks Mongocanfly,
Where did you get and what size on poly? Use combo with rubber ? Rubber on top?

[R&B51]

I will work on getting those pictures done. I do almost everything from my phone I don’t know if that makes it harder.
Maybe if I start a build thread, it will keep my feet to the fire and help with momentum on the whole thing.

[mongocanfly]

ive never mixed/stacked the poly and rubber...one truck I used poly on ,the other I used all rubber...the IH im doing now i do have poly to go under the bed mounts, but the cab is sitting on rubber..mccmaster carr is where I got the rubber, and I think jegs is where I got the poly

[R&B51]

Thanks all,
Called ARP, nice folks. Definitely worth calling them when I get ready for frame fasteners.
Reposting this part of question buried in that rediculously long post I laid down earlier hoping for some experience or wisdom from you:
Frame material?
do you think 2“ x 3“ and maybe 3/16”or 1/4” thick frame tube is enough or should I go with 2 x 4 or 2 x 6? I have had a couple of people tell me that 2 x 3 is plenty for build that weighs about 2600 pounds?

[mongocanfly]

The only way I would use 2x3 is if it had a full roll cage on top of it...
2x4 min..I would use 2x5 or x6. .with 3/16 wall ...if I was doing a square tube frame...
And even with that I'd have some serious crossmembers in it..but I believe in overkill
We used to build all our own race car frames, so that's my 2cents..
Think about how the stock frame is made..its much bigger dimensionally than 2x3..and people box stock frames all the time for extra strength
Again...just my 2cents

[mick53]

I'm boxing my frame OEM rails. I'll be running close to 1000 hp out of my blown 292. You can buy pre made frame rails for these trucks if you want to make your own frame. For me there is just too much stuff to mount to start from scratch. For me starting with a "C" channel lets me put reinforcing where I want it like engine mounts and spring mounts. Some racing classes require original frame rails. You can buy boxing kits for them or make your own with basic tools.

[R&B51]

mongocanfly, That previous frame and racing experience is what I need-Will definitely adjust my plan.

mick53, Any sentence with 1000 hp, blown, and 292 in it puts a big grin on my face-had a happy chuckle for two or three minutes! Sure would like to see a picture of that when it’s finished- Even better to hear a video and watch it run. Ought to be a torque monster. Probably a few neighbors a little surprised when you start that thing up.

I think I’m kind of stuck with designing some custom frame rails because I’ve waded in so deep on marrying this truck body to this Corvette rolling chassis. I had both the Corvette and the old truck frames FARO laser mapped in 3-D and took a lot of hand measurements off of level floor. Tried to get all the body mount points in relation to front and rear axle centers and everything else to help with the plan. Definitely over my head a little bit but I’m still swimming.
Hopefully, I’ll get close enough where I can make some adjustments as I assemble it to get it right. It’s all old man dreams and hot air until it’s actually working and done.

[mongocanfly]

If your orig frame is good, and if you havnt already seen them, look into flatout vett kits.. https://flatout-engineering.com/products.html
I have his front crossmember for mine, for when I get done with the IH

[R&B51]

Yes, I’ve seen lots of good kits out there.
It’s kind of buried in that big long message I put in up above, but take a look at it if you like. It may not be all that clear the way I said it.
I am using the entire Corvette rolling chassis and just extending the drive shaft /propeller shaft. Literally, hopefully plug and play. Computers and maybe a wiring harness extender, hook up the battery and work out some of the details and it will be a full Corvette underneath with the truck on top. All factory except for the adapters that connect to the frame.

Check out the website for where I got the adapters:

https://rick486.wixsite.com/dobbertinperformance

So far, this guy has been really great to work with. I think mine may be the first set/project that he has done like this on a C6 Corvette. He has done dozens of the C-5 model. I’m working through getting the right coil over shocks from Ride Tech right now. I sent back the first set they sent me and they’re going to send another set based on some measurements I took. I like their product, all American made and they are great to work with as well.

With this system, the adapters pick up the upper and lower a arm suspension points perfectly and allow me to just lay a frame rail front to back. I will have to have those frame rails bent to allow body to sit in the proper position in 3-D space. I will fabricate X frame component in the middle around the torque tube and exhaust.

[mongocanfly]

Ok, I sorta understand now....I read thru so many builds that i easily forgot who's doing what sometimes..

[R&B51]

This is definitely an odd way to skin a cat.
I haven’t found anybody else who’s done it the way I’m getting it done and that’s not always a good thing!
If it works, I wanna do it over again just like this one. This truck is for my son. He has been very ill for years now and I hope it will help put a smile on his face. Hoping he can maybe even turn a wrench some during some of the assembly phase. Everyone of us has a different motivation and that sure helps keep me going.
Having been through all of the shenanigans once, I can save all of the work of figuring out every twist and turn and just do another one a whole lot easier the next time using all the measurements and lessons I learned.
That is a whole lot of why this truck site works, I get to learn from you guys who have done it before and one way or another.
Also, for me, it’s a little bit like hearing all the details about somebody’s vacation. I always feel like I got to go when I’m listening.
Sure appreciate all the advice.

[mongocanfly]

Always curious to see the "1st time ever done" trucks...if you havnt , start a build thread ,,add lots of pics, and make that boy smile.!!!

[R&B51]

Sound advice from all, seems best to use 2” x 6” 10 gauge which is 1/8 inch wall tube for frame rails.
Material choice for X frame?

[mongocanfly]

personal choice as long as its structurally sound..often its easier to do xmembers with something a size or 2 smaller than the frame rails...like 2x4 or 2x5...even 2x3...
I prefer using round tube on mine...again personal choice

[R&B51]

Good to hear what has worked for you I’ll find out what fits best around torque tube, exhaust + under cab supports I need to use since took out seat support and probably go with 2 x 3 or round tube.