So I drove through some water...

[jumpsoffrock]

Up until 3 days ago I've spent my life observing the hot market of 4x4 trucks and lifted trucks: they are generally more sought after and considered valuable and superior than their 2wd counterparts.


I'll have none of it. I think the 4x4 craze is a fad for people who have more sense than money, and they over prepare for something that will require 4x4 less than 1% of the time they use the vehicle.
And most people who have 4x4 aren't even the "type" of people who do that kinda offroad stuff.....and now they're searching harder and going farther to pay more money for some 4x4 truck, all for nothing. What a waste; and it makes you look like a poser.



I have a friend who lives in a rural canyon with a creek obviously at the bottom. The main road to his any many other peoples houses at the bottom of the canyon, where the creek passes under the road using small culvert--no bridges.

With the crazy rainfall we've seen those culverts were greatly exceeded and there was significant flow over the road.
I have been going to visit regularly and 3 days ago I was required to drive through some fast moving water in my old F100 that sits stock height--low. The battery is stored beneath the floor, stock. 4 wheel drum brakes.



I drove through one and immediately realized I might be putting the electrical system kaput and lost 95% of my braking. It was completely nerve wracking getting to and from his house. The back road to his house was blocked by massive rock falls.





It was then, right then and there, I had a revelation why so many people dream of their 4x4 truck that they want, and go out of their way to lift their trucks with those silly lift kits even though 99% of the time they need neither.





P.S. My "new" truck is a '72 C3500 with much more power than my little F100, and it's almost the same exact height. lol

[Grumpy old man]

It's based on "want" and "need" No matter how high you lift a truck your still limited on where you can go by the differential /axle height . purpose built trucks that will drag you thu the deepest mud hole won't be very daily driver friendly and your not taking that brand new $100,000.00 truck 4 wheeling . Trucks with $25,000.00 paint jobs aren't going to Walmart parking lots unless there's a truck show there . You don't bolt $5,000.00 worth of wheels on your truck and then go mudding . "Want" and "need" are two different things .

High water turn around don't drown

[Steeveedee]

Be sure to check your diff for water if you got in that deep.

[jabborabbo]

Some folks just like the look…I don’t care for it personally, but to each his/her own….

[KW5413]

Originally Posted by jumpsoffrock

Up until 3 days ago I've spent my life observing the hot market of 4x4 trucks and lifted trucks: they are generally more sought after and considered valuable and superior than their 2wd counterparts.

I'll have none of it. I think the 4x4 craze is a fad for people who have more sense than money, and they over prepare for something that will require 4x4 less than 1% of the time they use the vehicle.
And most people who have 4x4 aren't even the "type" of people who do that kinda offroad stuff.....and now they're searching harder and going farther to pay more money for some 4x4 truck, all for nothing. What a waste; and it makes you look like a poser.

I have a friend who lives in a rural canyon with a creek obviously at the bottom. The main road to his any many other peoples houses at the bottom of the canyon, where the creek passes under the road using small culvert--no bridges.

With the crazy rainfall we've seen those culverts were greatly exceeded and there was significant flow over the road.
I have been going to visit regularly and 3 days ago I was required to drive through some fast moving water in my old F100 that sits stock height--low. The battery is stored beneath the floor, stock. 4 wheel drum brakes.

I drove through one and immediately realized I might be putting the electrical system kaput and lost 95% of my braking. It was completely nerve wracking getting to and from his house. The back road to his house was blocked by massive rock falls.

It was then, right then and there, I had a revelation why so many people dream of their 4x4 truck that they want, and go out of their way to lift their trucks with those silly lift kits even though 99% of the time they need neither.


P.S. My "new" truck is a '72 C3500 with much more power than my little F100, and it's almost the same exact height. lol

Hey! I resemble many of those remarks!

I have had a (stock) 4x4 in my trucks & SUVs for over 30 years for the following reasons: #1...I can. #2...On the off chance that there might be snow on the ground a couple days a year in DFW. #3...4 or 5 Dove hunting trips during a 2-month season. #4...Todays 4x4s allow for an All-Wheel-Drive selection that does its own thing. Especially handy when driving too fast thru rain and puddling.

So there you have it. Besides. 4x4s have rights, too. So, I am being diversified and inclusive.

[special-K]

Boy, you said a real mouthful, but I still see room to put your foot. First of all, there is as much interest in 2wds as in 4wds. If there is a fad then it's for all shapes and forms of trucks. I call it a trend. I have been driving 4wds, not including my dad's Land Rovers before I had my own, since 1977. I got by with 2wds before that. But living in the N/W seeing all the cool vintage 4wds bit onto me. I have "needed" 4wd to operate the siding business I operated for over 30 years to gain access for equipment and materials to the jobsites with no road to get near the house


My lifestyle involves the need for 4wd as well. Living in a rural area that does not receive snow plow service has put my 4wds to good use cutting fresh tracks for my fellow residents to get out to the store and for other needs


I prefer a life of self-sufficiency and heat my home with firewood that I cut out of the woods, often requiring 4wd


Also, for pleasure I enjoy the great outdoors with activities that often requiring 4wd to gain access these areas, such as surf fishing and surfing


And back country camping. Yes, picture taken in parking lot... of food store to get more supplies

[Stocker]

I bought my K20 nearly 46 years ago, and use it much the same as described in the two posts above. Basically stock height, though I installed modestly lifted (2.5") front springs when my originals had sagged badly.
Rear springs got AALs due to heavy loads (how much does a cord of green hardwood weigh?). Anyone who doesn't understand the need obviously does not need to own a 4x4.


PS -- Need to see pics of your "new" '72 C3500 please

[jumpsoffrock]

Originally Posted by Stocker

PS -- Need to see pics of your "new" '72 C3500 please

It's not even really "new" to me, I've had it for almost 2 years, what I meant is that I bought it to relieve my F100 of daily driver duty. It needs some rust repair and an NV4500 swap before it takes over, for now it just sits...Will be done this year.

Tim--I love your personal vintage photos.

I'm glad most/all of you guys could see the humor in my post: all I want to say is it's nice to have a little more height and more-driven-wheels when the situation calls for it, and I felt really scared with my low 2wd truck. It made it, barely.

Some of you guys really live in rough country.

Am I going to buy a 4x4 now? no, can't afford it. I'm in love with my C3500.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=821111

[Casper42]

I agree, totally. People are followers (cattle), they do what they are told and usually based on what they see. We're in a world of all-wheel-drive for the majority of vehicles nowadays because the manufacture has conditioned us to believe it's the best, smartest thing to purchase. I have a front wheel drive Audi as my daily driver, when probably 90% of Audi's are all-wheel-drive. I think what we are seeing in 4x4 KE's will only raise the prices of our CE's namely because many will never be able to pay six figures for that 4x4, so instead they'll have to get the 2x4

[special-K]

Originally Posted by jumpsoffrock

I think you're missing the sarcasm of this thread posting. But just like the fact not everyone likes the same colors, or the same type of car, not everyone has the same sense of humor.

I guess I missed the humor in your first post. I might have put the toe of my shoe in my own mouth a bit. I would have edited but I left town till late last night, so this is my kinda sorta rebuttal. I tend to be sarcastic myself and use dry humor that can event go over the tallest head. I agree with your comments (maybe you actually don't ). I read it and applied it to myself when it was an in general post. Now go jump of a rock!!

I was at my sister's last weekend and two weekend's ago. They live up a mountain where they use 4wd everyday to get up their road with 9%+ grade. When it snows or bad mud they strap on chains. In winter they leave a rusty old 'Yota with chains and leave their driver at the bottom, often. And sometimes they can't get up with chains and they have to hike it up to the house, groceries and all. But I drove a 2wd Sonoma down and scratched my way up. The first time, empty, it took backing down for a second shot at the steepest part. It's a 4cyl/5spd and I left it in second. Not enough guts for that and shifting to first it didn't slip right in, which meant I stopped dead. It even slid back some with the brakes on. Kinda scary. But I backed to the bottom and hit it harder in first, still requiring some "technique" of giving it power, wheels slip so let of, power again, let off, and it made it on up. I made a few trips up carrying about 1/2t of gravel and no problemo.

Originally Posted by Casper42

I agree, totally. People are followers (cattle), they do what they are told and usually based on what they see. We're in a world of all-wheel-drive for the majority of vehicles nowadays because the manufacture has conditioned us to believe it's the best, smartest thing to purchase. I have a front wheel drive Audi as my daily driver, when probably 90% of Audi's are all-wheel-drive. I think what we are seeing in 4x4 KE's will only raise the prices of our CE's namely because many will never be able to pay six figures for that 4x4, so instead they'll have to get the 2x4

Speak for yourself. Well, I guess you did. You said "people" and you are a person, right? Maybe you meant "most" or "many"
You are incorrect with your next statement. As one who was a 4wd enthusiast before the "herd" you spoke of caught on, I can tell you it's quite the contrary. In the case of widespread 4wd ownership, it all began with market demand and it was the automakers who responded to that. If anyone is to blame it would be the advent of 4wd magazines which, again, were spurred by the growing public interest. The Baja 1000 and coverage of Jeep clubs running the Rubicon and other backcountry trails helped spread the "disease". I can remember when you'd hardly see a 4wd but in the northern tier states. And the only well-optioned, meaning comfort & convenience, 4wds were seen on the west coast and southwest where camping in the wide open spaces was already popular. The 4wds I knew of on the east coast were all utility and far fewer. I remember in the late-70s in Pagosa Springs, CO how the old-timers would say "We didn't need 4wd. We just strapped on the chains". And S/W Colorado gets more than it share of big snows. Yep, people managed w/o 4wd just fine back in the day. But it didn't take long for folks to realize they could do even better with it.
I thought we were talking about 67-72 era 4wds in this thread, since that's the forum we are in here. Audi was at the forefront of "AWD" cars not "4WD" trucks. Two completely different animals. If their line of offerings is predominantly AWD it is due to them pioneering the segment. The idea of AWD is for better traction on the road in all conditions, including dry performance driving. With 2wd the drive wheels will steer the vehicle when breaking loose and AWD pulls straight, more peddle through the bends, especially when the unpredictable loose material or wet spots show up on a curve. I thing originally they had skiers in mind, but the general public ate it up, so they responded to the market. Lots of America gets snow in the winter. Although you can count the snow days on your hand in many areas, "people" feels it's better to have when you don't need it than to not have it when you do. In the end, fuel economy is pretty much the same and the drivetrains hold up through the life of the typical Audi driver who are new car buyers.

As far as the modern $100k trucks we see, I agree, many don't even use them as trucks or go off road. And the boys with thousands of dollars in wheels and tires alone are what many would call mall cruisers and that tires hanging out the side is a silly fad as Jumpsofrock may have been referring to. In the '70s when 4wds took off and magazines showed 4wds with chrome shocks & roll bars, KC Daylighters illegal to use on the road, and custom graphic paint jobs, I saw the same thing happening. I didn't follow. My truck lacked chrome and all it was lacking was a winch that I couldn't afford

Asa far as me, this has been my theme song since my teens. Actually sooner. I just hadn't fully realized it yet:

The Byrds- I Wasn't Born To Follow - YouTube

['68OrangeSunshine]

Originally Posted by special-K

I guess I missed the humor in your first post. I might have put the toe of my shoe in my own mouth a bit. I would have edited but I left town till late last night, so this is my kinda sorta rebuttal. I tend to be sarcastic myself and use dry humor that can event go over the tallest head. I agree with your comments (maybe you actually don't ). I read it and applied it to myself when it was an in general post. Now go jump of a rock!!

I was at my sister's last weekend and two weekend's ago. They live up a mountain where they use 4wd everyday to get up their road with 9%+ grade. When it snows or bad mud they strap on chains. In winter they leave a rusty old 'Yota with chains and leave their driver at the bottom, often. And sometimes they can't get up with chains and they have to hike it up to the house, groceries and all. But I drove a 2wd Sonoma down and scratched my way up. The first time, empty, it took backing down for a second shot at the steepest part. It's a 4cyl/5spd and I left it in second. Not enough guts for that and shifting to first it didn't slip right in, which meant I stopped dead. It even slid back some with the brakes on. Kinda scary. But I backed to the bottom and hit it harder in first, still requiring some "technique" of giving it power, wheels slip so let of, power again, let off, and it made it on up. I made a few trips up carrying about 1/2t of gravel and no problemo.

Speak for yourself. Well, I guess you did. You said "people" and you are a person, right? Maybe you meant "most" or "many"
You are incorrect with your next statement. As one who was a 4wd enthusiast before the "herd" you spoke of caught on, I can tell you it's quite the contrary. In the case of widespread 4wd ownership, it all began with market demand and it was the automakers who responded to that. If anyone is to blame it would be the advent of 4wd magazines which, again, were spurred by the growing public interest. The Baja 1000 and coverage of Jeep clubs running the Rubicon and other backcountry trails helped spread the "disease". I can remember when you'd hardly see a 4wd but in the northern tier states. And the only well-optioned, meaning comfort & convenience, 4wds were seen on the west coast and southwest where camping in the wide open spaces was already popular. The 4wds I knew of on the east coast were all utility and far fewer. I remember in the late-70s in Pagosa Springs, CO how the old-timers would say "We didn't need 4wd. We just strapped on the chains". And S/W Colorado gets more than it share of big snows. Yep, people managed w/o 4wd just fine back in the day. But it didn't take long for folks to realize they could do even better with it.
I thought we were talking about 67-72 era 4wds in this thread, since that's the forum we are in here. Audi was at the forefront of "AWD" cars not "4WD" trucks. Two completely different animals. If their line of offerings is predominantly AWD it is due to them pioneering the segment. The idea of AWD is for better traction on the road in all conditions, including dry performance driving. With 2wd the drive wheels will steer the vehicle when breaking loose and AWD pulls straight, more peddle through the bends, especially when the unpredictable loose material or wet spots show up on a curve. I thing originally they had skiers in mind, but the general public ate it up, so they responded to the market. Lots of America gets snow in the winter. Although you can count the snow days on your hand in many areas, "people" feels it's better to have when you don't need it than to not have it when you do. In the end, fuel economy is pretty much the same and the drivetrains hold up through the life of the typical Audi driver who are new car buyers.

As far as the modern $100k trucks we see, I agree, many don't even use them as trucks or go off road. And the boys with thousands of dollars in wheels and tires alone are what many would call mall cruisers and that tires hanging out the side is a silly fad as Jumpsofrock may have been referring to. In the '70s when 4wds took off and magazines showed 4wds with chrome shocks & roll bars, KC Daylighters illegal to use on the road, and custom graphic paint jobs, I saw the same thing happening. I didn't follow. My truck lacked chrome and all it was lacking was a winch that I couldn't afford

Asa far as me, this has been my theme song since my teens. Actually sooner. I just hadn't fully realized it yet:
The Byrds- I Wasn't Born To Follow - YouTube

Special K- Kudos for using a Byrds/Easy Rider clip to make your point. My fave rave band too.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by '68OrangeSunshine

Special K- Kudos for using a Byrds/Easy Rider clip to make your point. My fave rave band too.

The core of many great groups & music, ey? Happy to know we share the appreciation. I do relate to that song. I really was not born to follow. I do put effort into blending in. No man is an island and all that jazz

[Trio]

Since 4x4s have been around for decades, doesn't really qualify as a "fad" or a "trend." Perhaps the point was most people for daily driving will never need 4x4 or AWD. But trend or fad it is not.

[chevmn]

I guess I have come full circle in a way. Growing up hardly anyone owned a 4x4, most trucks were 1/2 ton C10 (or Ford F100s). I never mentioned Dodge or others as they were extremely rare, and I could count those on one hand with a couple fingers missing. Starting in the mid 70's 4x4 pickups started to gain popularity, then by the 80's getting very popular. I purchased a K10 4x4 in 1979 as a daily driver, and have owned one since, but probably only drive my current truck a couple times a month. I do live in a very rural area, and low water crossings are the norm, and I have steep hills to get to pavement, but a few years ago I learned that a good "winter" tire (not all season) will take a front wheel drive vehicle until they are pushing snow, and for several years drove those exclusively (100 miles per day to work). I retired last year, so my "need" to drive bad roads diminished sinificantly, and I have farm tractors to do the wood cutting chores, and a blade to remove snow from my hills. I do know in my area that the heavy snowfalls are rare in comparison to 50 - 60 years ago. Honestly I could do without a 4x4 now entirely, but since around here non-4x4 trucks are scarce, and mine sits in a basement garage most of the time I doubt I trade anytime soon.

[jocko]

Glad you solved your problem and punted that old F100.
Stock ride height 4x4s are all that one would ever really "need" if they ever really needed a 4x4. And yes, some folks do need a 4x4 much of the time - especially on the farm, or in the case of your friend. Some like the look of a lifted truck - and that's perfectly fine too - it's just a matter of personal taste, but it's seldom, if ever, "needed" to get where you want to go.

[truckster]

I have a 4WD Blazer because that's what I want. It does really well in the snow, and when I decide to go offroad it's plenty capable for the trails I'll take it on. I think the 4WD "fad" has been going on for over 50 years, so I'm not sure it can be called a fad anymore.

[LS short box]

Kind of interesting how things have changed from 2wd to 4wd. As said above back in the day very few had 4wd or AWD. Today around here in MN you can't find a 2wd truck. My wife has a AWD 2022 Dodge Charger and loves it.
My 2020 Silverado has auto 4wd and it's seamless as you drive it. The last couple of days we've had blowing snow and with the sun getting higher in the sky the snow sticks on the roads and it can be super slippery.
My 98 Wrangler LS6/4L60E swapped is a true mall crawler.
I use my ATV to gather wood.

[57taskforce]

I’m lucky enough to have gotten extremely good deals on the two 67-72 Ks that I’ve got. I live in a pretty rural area and even if the 4x4 only gets used once a year or even less, (they don’t get driven in bad weather at all) it’s completely worth it to have the height and extra pulling tires at those times. I’ve always been a 4x4 guy. Only C truck I’ve ever owned started getting a 4x4 conversion before I ever took it down the road. My K20 does a little wood hauling work from time to time, it’s quite nice having low range up in the mountains to crawl around on the wood trails and not have to use the brakes or strain the clutch when it’s in a bind. I wouldnt trade my K trucks for anything; and I’ve been offered good money for both of them more than once.

[franken]

"more sense than money," while trying to make the opposite point is interesting.

[jumpsoffrock]

Originally Posted by franken

"more sense than money," while trying to make the opposite point is interesting.

I think you're missing the sarcasm of this thread posting. But just like the fact not everyone likes the same colors, or the same type of car, not everyone has the same sense of humor.

[Richard]

Lifted or lowered. There are some things regarded as benefits or inconveniences. Many modify their vehicles for use or just looks. Do what you like and enjoy life!

[palallin]

My truck is currently sitting with its hubs locked and the T-221 engaged. I have been hauling brush and cut trees in my lower field, which is sodden and soggy. This is hardly the first time I have used 4WD on my place or getting to town from it. Can't speak to fads in the city--of which, 4WD is hardly the most problematic--but here in the country, we need it. Every one of my vehicles is 4WD (my wife's latest is AWD, but it stays in the garage in bad weather and doesn't go into the field). Off my place, my vehicles tow my cannon to our reeanactments, and I can't count the number of times I have needed it for getting up steep hills, going through mud, across fords, and that sort of thing. Like so many other things I have, it is a tool I use.

[Ol Blue K20]

I use my 4wd trucks, sometimes I need the winch on "Blue". 4x4 definitely not a fad to me, I've had at least one since I was 16. I currently have 3, each with it's own purpose.

[Stocker]

Wife & I have just two vehicles -- my K20 and her Tacoma, which is also our DD. Both are 4WD for good reason. No fads here.

[Ol Blue K20]

Originally Posted by Stocker

Wife & I have just two vehicles -- my K20 and her Tacoma, which is also our DD. Both are 4WD for good reason. No fads here.