To Sniper or not to Sniper...?

[Kootenay64]

I'm seriously thinking of converting my truck from the ol' Rochester carb to Sniper EFI system. Reasons include; not dealing with mixture screws, idle speed, hard cold starting, seemingly dealing with the unknown witchcraft of carburetorisms.
My weakness for sure I admit it, carbs have never been my thing, other repairs / rebuilds no problem.
Question is, those of you that have made this switch, any recommendations, any feedback? Is it worth the cost?
Truck is 1972 GMC K20, pic attached for no real reason....other than I love the thing!

[68 C10 Driver]

Interesting post, I will be sure to follow. I have often wondered the same.

[Shifty One]

Also hitching a ride, as I have no experience with them either.

[68 C10 Driver]

I am assuming this truck has a SBC, not a big block. If using a SBC, I would try replacing the Rochester with an Edelbrock 1406. My research and discussions with many owners has found that the 1406 is easy to initially set up and is rock solid after it is set. The big bonus is that it is about $800 cheaper than a Sniper set-up.

I am not trying to dissuade you from installing the Sniper, just pointing out an alternative. If you go with the Sniper, I would love to follow your progress and how you install it.

Cheers!

[Kootenay64]

Thanks 68 C10, I had also considered that option as I did that very swap on my last 1964 C10 and the Edelbrock did work flawlessly, so that's still an option.

[Kootenay64]

Oh and yes it is a SBC 350 with just over 100k miles on it. Will be doing a rebuild on it soon.

[67 twins]

Originally Posted by Kootenay64

Thanks 68 C10, I had also considered that option as I did that very swap on my last 1964 C10 and the Edelbrock did work flawlessly, so that's still an option.

So you don't like carbs but you'd consider removing the factory carb that has been optimized for your engine by GM and in its place put something that is going to require more fiddling with to optimize for your set up. Why?

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by 68 C10 Driver

I am assuming this truck has a SBC, not a big block. If using a SBC, I would try replacing the Rochester with an Edelbrock 1406. My research and discussions with many owners has found that the 1406 is easy to initially set up and is rock solid after it is set.

Make that an Edelbrock AVS2 instead. A much newer design with annular boosters.

I'll be anxiously awaiting more snide remarks from member 67 twins.

[67 twins]

Originally Posted by MikeB

Make that an Edelbrock AVS2 instead. A much newer design with annular boosters.

I'll be anxiously awaiting more snide remarks from member 67 twins.

I never make snide remarks, only well thought out comments.

[Rust_never_sleeps]

I haven't walked an inch in those shoes....but
I haven't seen anyone who went to a Sniper say they regret it. They are damned expensive so "worth it" depends

There is a bolt on tool called the Carb Cheater for about $350 that can give you the feedback you need to tune your carb. It's an interesting option for those of us who didn't grow up fiddling with carbs. About 2x the price of an O2 sensor alone with a phone interface you can watch in real time driving. Thunderhead289 on Youtube makes them

Or.. if you're going to rebuild anyway, you could send the Q-jet off to Cliff Ruggles or one of the other gurus while the motor is off. Once it's set up for your application, you're unlikely to need to touch it much.
It' also common to have a transplanted Qjet that doesn't have the right parts to match your motor, the things have many variations and they're application specific

[jerry moss]

we have installed sniper's on several customers vehicles where i work and as of yet never had any comebacks or complaints. they were easy to dial in and fire up with the touch of the key, idle great and give fast throttle response when you hit the skinny pedal. i'm considering installing one on my 69 suburban when/if i ever get around to finishing it. just my 2 cents worth.

[Kootenay64]

Originally Posted by jerry moss

we have installed sniper's on several customers vehicles where i work and as of yet never had any comebacks or complaints. they were easy to dial in and fire up with the touch of the key, idle great and give fast throttle response when you hit the skinny pedal. i'm considering installing one on my 69 suburban when/if i ever get around to finishing it. just my 2 cents worth.

Thank you for the feedback much appreciated.

[extd56]

I have a Sniper on a 69 Camaro and seems to work great so far, very responsive.

[Burnsy01]

Ill step up- I have one on my 68 camaro. 454 big block , iron 101 heads, flat tops 9.2:1 compression. Mild street motor. It was the best upgrade I ever did, I put a stealth kit on it with an in tank pump. I run it without timing control .Is it perfect? No. But it starts every time and runs fairly smooth. I have a buddy with over 20k on his car he daily drives in the summer with no issues. I wouldn't say this is efi in the same sense as a new car, it still has that " Carburetor" type of feel. Hard to explain without experiencing it.

I will note that a terminator kit makes it run like a new car and makes it very reliable at the sacrifice of the " ugliness" of the injectors in the intake manifold.

Any questions feel free to ask
Nick

[my67c20]

Well it was a lot of work / time to install. Had to splice and lengthen some of the harnesses so it would not look like a snake pit. Needed a few extra fittings to route the fuel lines. Installing the O2 sensor was a battle in itself. Had to make a bracket to mount the fuel pump. Still need to add some isolators cause that pump is loud.

Could one person install the system on a Saturday, yes. It took me longer cause I wanted to make it a clean install. The install instructions are easy to follow and the start-up wizard walks you thru the initial set-up. Had my doubts, but it fired up right way. No pumping the gas, no half throttle while waiting for it to warm up to idle, basically none of the start-up fun from a carb set-up. Also no more leaky gaskets drying out from the desert heat.

I had my carb pretty well tuned or so I thought. This system woke my engine up. Was it worth it, hell yes. Could I have done a cheaper set-up to achieve the same results, sure. The only problem I have had is my O2 sensor crapped out on me after a year, which then lead to crappy performance. It was easy to change and now she runs like a beast.

[Burnsy01]

Originally Posted by my67c20

Well it was a lot of work / time to install. Had to splice and lengthen some of the harnesses so it would not look like a snake pit. Needed a few extra fittings to route the fuel lines. Installing the O2 sensor was a battle in itself. Had to make a bracket to mount the fuel pump. Still need to add some isolators cause that pump is loud.

Could one person install the system on a Saturday, yes. It took me longer cause I wanted to make it a clean install. The install instructions are easy to follow and the start-up wizard walks you thru the initial set-up. Had my doubts, but it fired up right way. No pumping the gas, no half throttle while waiting for it to warm up to idle, basically none of the start-up fun from a carb set-up. Also no more leaky gaskets drying out from the desert heat.

I had my carb pretty well tuned or so I thought. This system woke my engine up. Was it worth it, hell yes. Could I have done a cheaper set-up to achieve the same results, sure. The only problem I have had is my O2 sensor crapped out on me after a year, which then lead to crappy performance. It was easy to change and now she runs like a beast.

Not thread jacking but it may help if you tip the o2 sensor at an angle, condensation kills these things fast. Especially if the water sits on the very tip

[my67c20]

Burnsy01, thanks. The picture does not show the best angle, but the O2 sensor is on the pipe section that is aligned with the manifold flange, which puts it at about a 45 degree angle. I think the failure was mainly related to the truck sitting for awhile.

[chiefcfd]

I didn't use the Sniper, but I did go with FiTech System. The best decision I ever did. Mine was hard to start after sitting in the garage for a while. My tank was relocated to the rear. After installing this system no cold start problems. It was fairly simple to install.

[MikeB]

FWIW, Holley has some of their Sniper 2 stuff on sale now.

https://www.holley.com/products/sale/

[PbFut]

Just ran across this site. Looks like they have a few kits all 20% off this weekend. Never used them so can't say what their service is like. Might save you $300 or so.
https://www.topflightautomotive.com/

[jocko]

Kootenay, you sound undecided in your first post (EFI vs carb). If it's just the frustration of tuning the carb, have you considered replacing your carb for a professionally rebuilt q-jet? Or perhaps sending yours out for a rebuild? Yes, it's true you can do it yourself, as others have posted, but I also understand not wanting to mess with them - but I think you'd come out $ ahead to pay someone to rebuild it - and set it up, so that there's nothing less to mess with other than bolting it on. Although I understand the draw to the newer technology and its obvious benefits (efficiency, self-learning, less tuning, etc), I still prefer an original q-jet on these old trucks - have had a few edelbrocks, but definitely prefer a q-jet. It's just my own personal preference, everyone's different.
Here are a few resources (if you decide to stay carbureted )
https://cliffshighperformance.com/ (preferred. Cliff rebuilds baseplates, not certain if he still rebuilds carbs for folks, but he is the Rochester whisperer)
https://smicarburetor.com/ (EDIT: q-jet rebuild sales/service https://smicarburetor.com/service-mo...uadrajet-symc/)
https://nationalcarburetors.com/ (EDIT: and specific to 72 GM trucks: https://nationalcarburetors.com/chev...arburetor_1972)

[Steeveedee]

Cliff doesn't personally rebuild carbs anymore, I understand that he is retired. I bought a kit from him many years ago and it worked fine. It's up for rebuild again, and that's the way I'd go. The only real adjustments a carb needs is from winter to summer and back. My take is that vehicles sitting long enough for the fuel to evaporate out of the float bowl have problems. I know mine does. But if I start it even every other day, all I have to do is pump the pedal once and turn the key until it starts, and that may be as short as turn and release. As usual, one's mileage may vary.

FWIW, given the number of miles I drive my truck per year (~1000), I don't think that I'd ever recover the installation cost, even if I provided the labor for free.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by jocko

Kootenay, you sound undecided in your first post (EFI vs carb). If it's just the frustration of tuning the carb, have you considered replacing your carb for a professionally rebuilt q-jet? Or perhaps sending yours out for a rebuild?

Well said. Q-jets might just be the best carbs ever.

[1970cstblazer]

Originally Posted by MikeB

Well said. Q-jets might just be the best carbs ever.

Definitely best overall street carb. For super high performance race applications, the Holley Dominator ranks highly.

Every single vintage hobby vehicle I own has a Q-Jet, and all perform well no matter the weather. You have to be good with setting them up, as well as timing and other adjustments to get great results.

[pjmoreland]

As others have already said, the main benefit of the Sniper I installed on my truck has been easy starting all year. Probably not worth the expense and effort just for that. Here a few other built-in Sniper features I like:

1) Idle RPM stays steady when the A/C kicks on

2) A/C shuts off at WOT

3) Temperature based dual electric fan control

4) Optional ignition timing control

The Sniper 2 offers optional electronic automatic transmission control.