radiator question

[vardenafil]

sorry for the dumb question. i want to order my radiator this weekend. i have it narrowed down to 2 options. i can get a 4 core champion radiator for 305 dollars. it has 0.63 inch tubes x 4 for a total of 2.5 inches. or a cold case 2 core radiator. it has 1.25 inch tubes x 2 for total of 2.5 inches. the truck is a stock k20. i need extra cooling because i brought the truck down to the desert where its 115 -120 all summer long. the truck is auto and has a/c. thanks

https://www.championradiators.com/product/MC369

https://www.coldcaseradiators.com/pr...rs?sku=GMT558A

[HO455]

Absolutely not a dumb question!

While I'm not able to speak directly to your query I will throw out that I tried installing a Cold Case DIRECT FIT radiator some years back. During the installation I discovered that Cold Case doesn't use 4 row end caps. They use 3 row caps which were never used on our trucks.

GM only used 2 and 4 row end caps. If a truck's build required a 3 row radiator it was installed in a pair of 4 row caps.

This means there are no factory radiator mounts or rubbers that fit a Cold Case radiator. Which means you have to modify the factory mounts. Not DIRECT FIT even though your paying for DIRECT FIT!

Many folks have used them with no problems but I refused to pay for DIRECT FIT and have to make mounts when I could have paid half as much knowing I would my own mounts.

For the full story of my attempt to use Cold Case radiator see link. Starts on post 333.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...698377&page=14

[1970cstblazer]

The same individuals also run PYPES. Lets just say they don't take constructive feedback well of their "direct fit" exhaust systems either. I had a few key issues with their GM F body transverse muffler system, and the responses were less then acceptable. The takeaway was to suck it up buttercup. I was able to "make it work" with a lot of cussing, and fab work. Not acceptable for a moderately expensive system.

To compare, the pre-bent direct fit exhaust system I put on my 1970 Blazer sold through LMC was truly a direct fit! I did not have any fitment or cosmetic issues whatsoever!

Originally Posted by HO455

Absolutely not a dumb question!

While I'm not able to speak directly to your query I will throw out that I tried installing a Cold Case DIRECT FIT radiator some years back. During the installation I discovered that Cold Case doesn't use 4 row end caps. They use 3 row caps which were never used on our trucks.

GM only used 2 and 4 row end caps. If a truck's build required a 3 row radiator it was installed in a pair of 4 row caps.

This means there are no factory radiator mounts or rubbers that fit a Cold Case radiator. Which means you have to modify the factory mounts. Not DIRECT FIT even though your paying for DIRECT FIT!

Many folks have used them with no problems but I refused to pay for DIRECT FIT and have to make mounts when I could have paid half as much knowing I would my own mounts.

For the full story of my attempt to use Cold Case radiator see link. Starts on post 333.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...698377&page=14

[RichardJ]

Originally Posted by HO455

............. During the installation I discovered that Cold Case doesn't use 4 row end caps. They use 3 row caps which were never used on our trucks.

GM only used 2 and 4 row end caps. If a truck's build required a 3 row radiator it was installed in a pair of 4 row caps.
.........................................................................................

I also have the Cold Case GMT558A.

The info below from LMC and Classic Industries shows the 2 and 3 row brackets/rubber as the same and the 4 row as different. I used the 4 row brackets/rubber and it fit fine if I recall. I did have to trim the bottom of the core support to fit the lower bracket, but I don't recall any other issues. I got the brackets from the junk yard.

I bought it from Jeg's about ten years ago and a year later it started leaking. I called Jeg's and they said I had to contact Cold Case. I had to return it to Cold Case at my expense, but they returned a new one on their dime.

It has been fine since. Cold Case was surprised at the time that I had purchased it from Jeg's at about $60 under their list price and with free shipping.
That isn't the case today, but Jeg's and Summit Racing still sell it at about $15 less and free shipping.

I am not disappointed with the Cold Case or the fact that the first one failed. The next one I buy just might be the Champion. The reviews I've seen in recent years are better than the ones I read ten years ago. Not that I couldn't get one that failed, but they are nearer here in SoCal. Cold Case is in PA.

[RustyPile]

I agree with HO455. Cold Case has too many installation issues for me to recommend them..

[Dashman]

I had a Champion 3 row, and the threaded bungs for the transmission cooler lines were incredibly loose (0.46" diameter when it should be 0.45" for female 1/2"-20 threads). The type of loose that makes any experienced amateur mechanic believe whole heartedly that they're going to strip when you're looking to tighten the tube nut to stop a leak. It freaked me out because I'd never seen a fitting that loose before. I found a maximum torque for aluminum to be 328 in-lbs (27.333 ft-lbs). I torqued a tube nut to 20, 22, 24, 26, and then 28 ft-bs without the threads stripping. However, I wouldn't recommend Champion. I'm convinced that it was the TIG welding that permanently expanded those threaded bungs.

This is the radiator that I purchased on Ebay, except in the 3 row version:

https://www.alloyworksplus.com/produ...dex.header_1.1

...and the thread bungs were much smaller in diameter and fit a 1/2-20 tube nut just fine.

With any of these so called "direct fit" radiators, you're going to have to modify the supports somehow. The only ones that have the "rib" that fits into the rubber support are Be Cool radiators.

[weq92f]

.

FWIW

I purchased the Champion CC369 with shroud and dual 14" fans for my 67 BBC truck.

Unfortunately, I had the same issue as Dashman. Unable to properly secure my tranny lines to the cooler there in the radiator, I opted to not use the radiator. However I did use the shroud and fans as they mounted easily to my stock 4 row.

When I mocked up the install, the CC369 fit perfect into my lowers and the upper mounts went into place right over the weld point at the tanks on the rad very well. It fit good. Those fans turned out to be cheap 40 dollar jobs and incapable of keeping my engine cool. Had to replace with spal at considerable expense.

If you can overcome the transmission cooler port problem somehow, the champion will fit and most likely perform (as others have attested), just don't spring for the fans...they are a ripoff.

-klb

[Sheepdip]

I have 3 Champion units with zero issues, one is over 20 years old.

The latest one is in Otis my avatar, I purchased the radiator and fan unit guaranteed to cool 1000 horsepower, I got lots of cooling. Beware though, for these fan systems to work properly you need to run relays and properly size your alternator for the task at hand for everything involved.

[vardenafil]

i was planning on running the factory heavy duty clutch fan. do i need to run electric fans w/ the champion radiators?

[72SB]

Regarding which radiator cools better, the 2 row larger tube does vs more smaller tubes. Can't say how the CC fits C10....it was a PERFECT fit in my 67 Camaro.

Typically CC mirrors OEM side tank shape.

HD fan (7 blade) with proper OEM shroud vs EL fan any day

[Steeveedee]

I've had my Cold Case radiator for five years. Maybe something changed, because it did drop right in. I had a four row brass radiator originally. The Cold Case tanks appear to be the same size as the factory size, on mine.

[LS short box]

Don't know if this helps but I always run the biggest radiator I can fit. On my 68 with I ran an Afco LS generic swap radiator. They make the same size radiator for a SBC. Got it from Speedway Motors. Had to mod the upper and lower saddle mounts a bit because the radiator is thicker than stock.
I'm guessing it wouldn't take much fab work to get your stock fan shroud to work. I reused the stock upper mounts but shaved the shroud mounts.
Struggled to get 160 on cool days.

[jumpsoffrock]

OP, may I ask where in CA you are?

[PbFut]

When did you guys buy the champion with the bad tranny ports? I purchased a 4 row around June 2023. It fit almost perfect, including the cooler ports. The tanks just touched the metal part of my mounts. Unsure if it was do to rubber too old or the tank. A very minor bit of grinding kept the metal portion of mounts from touching. No matter the one you buy, before hooking tranny lines use an ohm meter to verify the radiator is not grounding to prove you are not rubbing on metal somewhere. This will avoid a serious problem down the road.

[weq92f]

.

My experience was from back in 2017/2018. This is a vid that I sent to Champion showing the bad fit...

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KmzRRrVeXzU

We had a discussion about it here:

https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...n+trans+cooler

-klb

[vardenafil]

Originally Posted by jumpsoffrock

OP, may I ask where in CA you are?

I live in san diego county but work in imperial county. I brought the truck down to the desert with me to work on it during the week.

[72SB]

FWIW, Cold Case is a forum vendor on a Camaro forum I am on. You contact them direct, and they give the "forum discount" which is about $50 and it includes free shipping. Like any forum there are +/- reviews but on the Camaro forum the majority (99%) are good. I contacted the rep by email asking him if I had the issue 1 member had would they accept a return. His one-word answer, yes. He went on to note the specific concern the 1 member had, and it was due to that members core support not being exactly the same as factory. Possibly due to accident or repop core support. My $.02 is they appear to stand by their product, and it has a lifetime warranty.

Is CC the best radiator made, no. It is a good quality budget friendly product. It's main attribute is they use 2 large cores vs 3-4 smaller ones and it is known larger but fewer cores cool better than more smaller ones.

High $ radiators like FSR (Four Seasons), Ron Davis are very good quality and lifetime warranty but cost considerably more. I have a FSR on another car and it has been zero problem for over 10 years now.

[leddzepp]

I’ve used two Champion cc369 radiators with no issues. One in my 72 C10 with a 402/400 setup and one one my 68 with a 350/350 setup. Radiator lines connected with no issues and have never leaked. Sounds like they had quality control issues at some point? They are close to me here in SoCal and I bought directly over the counter from their shop in Lake Elsinore.

[bwl101]

CC 369 here as well! No issues with trans lines on mine. I went with the dual efan kit from them as well. Has worked well in the summer here in SC!

[vardenafil]

sorry one more question. I was comparing the 4 core champion to the 2 core cold-case. I saw on the champion web site and it stated that the 4 core is not recommended with A/C trucks due to air flow issues with the radiator and a/c cooler combined. they recommend the 3 core radiator. if the 4 core radiator is too thick at 2.75 inches for the core the cold case radiator will also be too thick at 3 inches thick at the core? the 3 core champion is 2.25 inches thick. if i got that route im not sure if it will cool sufficiently when it hits 120 outside.

[72SB]

regardless of AC or not, you want the CC, or any other brand, that has 2 cores that are 1 1/4-1 1/2" cores vs more cores that are smaller.