55.2-59 cpp power steering play

[popeyestruck]

I put the cpp power steering kit in my 59 and used the stock column. Power steering works just fine but there is a lot of play in it. when driving you have to constantly steer shifting the steering wheel a couple inches left and right. Is there a way to take out the play in the steering?

[B52bobardier1]

Was the steering gear box changed? New rag joint? I am not sure on that steering gear box if it can be adjusted to tighten up the internal lash but maybe it can. Generally, make small adjustments and check to see if it gets better.

Rick

[leegreen]

You obviously need to figure out where the play is as the first step.

Did it drive Ok before the conversion? then the search narrows to the column modification, the ragjoint/ujoint, the new steering box, the new drag link, the pitman arm splines and the steering arm that bolts to left spindle.

If the driving state before is unknown then you also need to look at everything else: tie rods, spindles, king pins, spring bushings, tires and alignment

[dsraven]

steering gear boxes are made in such a way that the gears fit tightest exactly in the middle of their travel. this is so that when driving straight ahead there is really no gear lash or steering wheel slop. as you turn the wheel there is a little lash that will show up. this is so that the king pin inclination can help bring the wheel back to center when you are done turning a corner, you shouldn't have to work to bring the steering back straight. the first thing to look at is whether the gear bax is centered, lock to lock, when the wheels are straight ahead. simply jack up the front end and block it for safety, placing the blocks under the axle so the king pins become unloaded. then do a lock to lock steering wheel turn count, how many turns, then place the steering wheel in the center of that number, starting from one lock and turning back towards the other. try to hold it there with a helper or rope, bungee cord, whatever. now go outside and see if the wheels are pointing straight ahead.
now, since the axle is unloaded, grab a long prybar and place it under the tire. lift the bar and check the king pins for wear. both sides. when done grab the tire and push in at the top -out at the bottom to also check the kingpins for wear. next, move the tire back and forth as if making a turn to check for tie rod and drag link wear. finally, put the truck back on the ground and release the steering wheel. have a helper move the steering wheel play and check the steering gear output shaft bushing for wear, the gear back lash and visually check the tie rods and drag link for wear.
as a side, if the wheels were not pointing straight ahead with the box centered lock to lock, then you may need an adjustable drag link, if you don't already.

[popeyestruck]

Everything is new . Kingpins , adjustable drag link ,converted to ball joints , new rag joint . I centered the wheel as described when I put it together . When I'm driving around a slow corner all is fine but on straightways its most noticable . Just feels like too much play. Its not undrivable just not as much fun

[leegreen]

Did you check alignment? Toe and Caster mainly.
Camber just out of curiosity in case it has a bent axle

If everything is new then are you saying you do not believe there is any slop or play to anything? That points towards an alignment issue, probably caster.
You'd have to shim the axle at springs to change caster or change the stance of the truck.

[leegreen]

"converted to ball joints"

where are the ball joints?

[popeyestruck]

Originally Posted by leegreen

"converted to ball joints"

where are the ball joints?

I meant the tie rod ends. I put in the more modern style https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4oygxvczEI

[dsraven]

check the steering wheel to ensure it is also tight on the steering column shaft and not messing you up

to adjust the steering gear, first center the steering box as mentioned before.
then, go under the hood and grab the steering column shaft rag joint at the box input. wiggle it back and forth while watching the pitman shaft/arm. see how much the input shaft moves before the pitman shaft starts to move. do this with the truck on the ground to load the steering so nothing really wants to move.
ensure the steering box is centered lock to lock
find the adjustment screw and lock nut, should be opposite the pitman arm on a small housing cap.
loosen the lock nut and hold with wrench
insert allen wrench or screw driver, whatever your adjustment screw style requires, into the adjusting screw head
use adjusting screw so adjust the freeplay in the steering gear lash. I like to mark that screw before I start so that I know it's original orientation. then only turn the screw about 1/8-1/4 turn at a time. check lash by turning the input shaft after each adjustment
this may take several adjustments to fine tune the gears the way you want it
when done to your satisfaction, hold the adjustment screw while tightening the lock nut
recheck to ensure that tightening the lock nut didn't mess with your previous work
turn the steering through a complete cycle, lock to lock, to ensure there are no tight spots or binding

when you tighten the adjusting screw you are actually forcing the pitman shaft's tapered gear further into the meshing area of the other gear inside the box. this tightens the lash between the gears. obviously, a little should go a long way so don't overdo it
check the steering box mounts, the cap on the housing of the steering gear to ensure it hasn't cracked or stripped at the adjustment screw hole, check for play in all of the moving parts in the steerng.
don't assume that because parts have been replaced they should be good. sometimes a tie rod taper is incorrect for the hole it fits into, sometimes they were not torqued correctly, not enough or too much, so the joint is tight but the tapered attachment is moving in the mount. sometimes new kingpins that seems tight have now worn in some and may have a little play. some new kingpin bushings are not a solid bushing like the old days. some are a bushing with a teflon wear surface and that surface may have "bumps" on it. it is common to have to ream the new bushings to fit the new pins after they are pressed in. frequently they feel tight at first but rapidly wear in to their "set point" and may have a little play. also check the adjustment sleeves on drag link and tie rod cross bar to ensure nothing is moving. it's good to have someone wiggleing the steering when you check for this

[dsraven]

also, check the rag joint connection to the steering gear input and the steering colum shaft, the slip area of the column shaft, if equipped, and the steering wheel torque/fitment onto the column shaft.

if it was tight befo0re and suddenly you have a bunch of play then it needs to be looked at CLOSELY

[leegreen]

A new box should not need adjusting for a long time, so think about warranty if it does turn out to be loose. I'd be more concerned about a new box that went out of adjustment than a box with years of use needing adjustment.

I assume this is a saginaw box, before doing the sector shaft preload dsraven describes you should adjust the end play in the steering shaft. This description looks good https://static.summitracing.com/glob...-283352_yk.pdf
The thrust bearings on steering shaft take a high load every time you turn the wheel

[dsraven]

Good point about the input shaft end play LG.
The entire steering system should be looked at closely.

[geezer#99]

Check your idler arm is moving parallel to your pitman arm.

[popeyestruck]

Thanks all. I'll get under it this weekend and go over everything

[Hcb3200]

I did same setup you did. I did have to adjust the steering box and tighten it up from the factory setting. not a lot just a little but it did make some improvement.
The second thing is the alignment. if that toe is out especially it will be all over.
Getting the toe correct as well. Get under one hand on the pitman one on the steering shaft and have another do small movements left and right you can quickly tell if their is slop.

[dsraven]

got any pics of the actual set up? would be interesting to see how it looks.

[mr48chev]

Originally Posted by dsraven

got any pics of the actual set up? would be interesting to see how it looks.

The part number of the kit would help too.

Still with a helper that can follow directions the first step is to have the helper gently and slowly rock the steering wheel back and forth while you check each and every connection visually and by feel for slack that shouldn't be there.

[Clarance J]

Hello Popeyestruck.

I had the same problem on my 55 after my power steering conversion. It was my one and only attempt at this so I am no expert. At first I tried a steering damper on the tie rod. It helped but did not cure. That was 2013. Still looking for a fix, in 2016 I changed my caster pads from the stock 2 degree to 4 degrees and just that change made enough differents I could take the damper off. Just something else to consider.

Earl

[dsraven]

yes, as always, a proper wheel alignment, done by someone who knows their way around these old trucks, would be a good starting point. caster and toe in can make a big difference, after all the other checks for loose parts are done and back to spec. a steering gear adjustment as required, and spring pins/bushings have ben checked for wear. also, lets not forget the rear axle plays a part in steering too. loose rear spring pins/bushings/worn axle retainer clips can cause the rear axle to move which will affect the steering too. kinda like herding goats down a road, first they go left, then right. haha.

[Hcb3200]

you can do a search for "adding caster after going from manual to power steering" or something along those lines. You will see a lot of post about improvement. You wills see post of how it helps road wander. I even saw a post from a 50 year plus alignment guy who specialize in older straight axles.
He even went as to put a slightly different degree from one side to the other. Took the time to unbolt it over and over in test for cars and trucks he works on. You would not find that dedication in most modern shops. While getting that exact may not be needed in your situation.

based on my "research"

I do think adding caster is one of the most missed items in straight axle conversions to power steering of the older cars and trucks.

Its my next action on improving my steering in the next month or so on the 56.

[leegreen]

The root issue is that in 1955 they designed the trucks for bias ply tires. Bias plies are a stiffer construction and tend to feel self centering. These old trucks did not have power steering, less caster makes turning the wheel at low speed easier. These old trucks were also designed with an operating speed in the 30-50 mph range. So in 1955 caster of 1-2 degrees is typical.

Radial tires are not as stiff a sidewall, all manufacturers increased caster specs in the late 60s-early 70s as radials came into play.
The large steering wheel with PS will also affect how things feel to some extent

If your truck has any rake to the stance with the back higher than the front, that stance is taking away caster compared to factory, you need to compensate

check your caster is in the 2-4 range. as well as all the general mechanical condition, toe in, tire pressure stuff normal for doing an alignment

[mr48chev]

I should have tried to buy this chassis to put what I want to do for an interim truck together but didn't have my trailer empty when he had it for sale and I waited him out too long.

I'd change the tie rod some and use tie rod ends rather than Heim joints but I have been wanting to put a Cross steer setup together for AD trucks for a long time as that should eliminate a lot of the twitch that AD trucks have with the CPP power steering, This one has what looks like a Ford F 150 4x4 power steering box. A person should be able to use a C10 power steering box or manual box for cross steer though .

[popeyestruck]

Toe in is correct. The truck was original when I started still had the original u bolts rusted on the front springs. There was no shims so I left it that way . I was told with newer tires they wouldnt be needed. Should I add some 2 degree shims? No old timers doing alignment around here that I know of. The stance is original

[leegreen]

Probably.
But you should measure your caster as it sits now at ride height before making changes. There are two pads on the sides of spindle you can put a digital level on and quite easily get a reading.

everything is new, but did you actually go back over it all to check for play?

[popeyestruck]

Originally Posted by leegreen

Probably.
But you should measure your caster as it sits now at ride height before making changes. There are two pads on the sides of spindle you can put a digital level on and quite easily get a reading.

everything is new, but did you actually go back over it all to check for play?

No not yet . Ive checked what I can so far but waiting for someone to stop by to help with turning the wheel while I can look better. I'll pick up a digital level and check