Yet another 383 thread.

[Billla]

Originally Posted by mnunn454

I have $4K invested in my 454.

Break out the 4K - did you have the engine to start or did you buy a core?

NO ARGUEMENT that 454 will outperform a 383 in every particular - it's strictly a question of price.

[WorkinLonghorn]

Heard a disappointing opinion yesterday about my plan. I was shopping the local R.V. storage/service facilities looking for available mid-sized travel trailers and the guy at the desk of one place told me that It won't be enough truck for the weight. His experience is with an Expedition (5.4L) pulling a 27" TT of about 6K lbs. He says even with a 383 c.i. I won't be happy,and that he is planning to get a Power Smoke diesel.
I don't know.I don't mind shifting down occasionally and holding at 3500-4000 RPM on grades. People used to tow with their cars back in the old days.
But now I am wondering if maybe I should just plan on getting a more capable newer F.I. pick-up and junking my current plans for my '69. Or maybe just go the RV route.

[Bowtie001]

New to the board, but not to SBCs. If you're dead set on them, I don't know why you'd ever pick a 383 over a 400. Why not go with a bigger bore for that engine? May not seem like much (17 cubes) but think of an engine making 1.2 hp/cu in and it turns into 20 free hp.
In my experience, it's actually better than free because you'll have to either pay for it or grind away some of the block near the oil pan to make room for that big arm on the 350 block and you'll be forced to go aftermarket crank which is $$$ and unless you spend, the quality is questionable.

If you're not shooting for the moon (under 600/700 hp) either stock crank/block/rods are fine. Spend the extra 100 bucks up front to buy a 400 core and buy the same set of heads you were planning on for the 350 or 383 and you'll end up with a giant torque bonus. Plus, you can avoid the 383 = camaro side effect.

The Brodix 8's seem odd. I'm not too familiar with them but they seem expensive for what you want. Tow motors are more art than dyno curves. My old 84 with a small cam and a 350 pulled a drag car on an open trailer no problem. That was with stock heads.

If I were you I'd do this:
400 sbc, stock crank + rods
Brodix IK180 heads or Edelbrock E-tec heads (both a bunch cheaper)
stick with a tiny cam. Bigger cam = bigger horsepower but you won't agree with the dyno when you're towing. Try 210's @ .050", which works out to be 250's 260's range. Try this cam http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku
Go with a good set of steel roller rockers like the Comp cams Magnum series
Go with small headers
std volume oil pump, Edelbrock performer RPM air gap intake
some holley/edelbrock/GB carb
crank the compression up to 9.5 or so if you're willing to run good gas, if not then 9 is probably the limit.

I do have DD and can give you more info if you want, but it cannot account for throttle response or feel. Also, a big cam or big heads is going to be murder on a stock torque converter unlike the setup I talked about... I didn't read carefully enough to see if you were a stick or auto guy.

Just my two cents, in the long run it's your motor. If you're not going to be proud when you open the hood then you shouldn't build it.

Also - don't do what everybody else does. If you want to use the 69, use the 69.

[Sport/Truck]

Originally Posted by Bowtie001

Plus, you can avoid the 383 = camaro side effect.

What is that?
s/t

[67sub]

WorkinLonghorn - how big of a trailer are you planning on pulling? A mid-size as you stated earlier shouldn't be a problem with a thought out 383 in my opinion.

[Bowtie001]

S/T
Hang out with Camaro guys (owned two) long enough and find someone who built the motor and DOESN'T own a 383. I dunno, it's just a Camaro stigma - they're boring. My 86 Camaro went pretty good at the track with a 400 and shut some of those 383 guys up.

[manimal]

Its not just the engine that counts. It has ALOT to do with the gearing.Look at all the '6cylinder' engines in the bobtails pullin aroung thousandsof pounds everyday.Do you have a std. trans or an automagic? What rear gears are you running? Why not a 383,SM465,GearVendors OD,and 4.56-4.88gears? BigBlocks are nice,dont get me wrong,but for the cost of a healthy Big Block compared to a healthy small block,you could build your truck the way it will work the best for you.JMO
-Lance

[Billla]

400 cores are getting harder and harder to find - no pushback that the extra 17 cubes are worth something.

[WorkinLonghorn]

Thanks for all the valuable input. I have a manual (435CR 4-spd,12" clutch) and 3.73 open diff. I gave away my 465 ( kicking self here).I was hoping to pull about a 25-27' Travel trailer,5-6000 lbs I figure all loaded up.
>>I am a bit leery of the 400 sbc for these Mohave desert passes such as the "Baker Grade" where it very often exceeds 120 degrees at street level and it is 12 miles long.A lot of vehicles don't make such grades and the pavement along these passes are melted in many places were vehicles have burnt up.A 400,with it's "siamesed" middle cylinders kind of worries me for extended full-throttle desert use.
>>Gear vender's OD unit would be great,but last I checked they were pretty darn expensive.I will be checking around for a used one because even with 3.73s I don't like cruising at 55-60.

[mnunn454]

Originally Posted by Billla

Break out the 4K - did you have the engine to start or did you buy a core?

NO ARGUEMENT that 454 will outperform a 383 in every particular - it's strictly a question of price.

Billla:
Breakout as requested:

$3,250 Ebay purchase which included brandy new Edelbrock Alum Performer Heads and Intake Manif. entire balanced shortblock including TRW forged pistons, Comp brand 286H Magnum cam and lifters, double row timing chain, new rings/bearings, oil pump etc., balancer and flexplate.

Then add:
$600 to ship it to me.
$100 for new gaskets throughout for a personal inspection to measure/ensure it was everything it was promised to be.
$50 for a set of chrome valve covers.

I added my own carb, ignition, headers and water pump.

Also, while I was locating this particular engine, I ran across a really decent deal on remanufactured 454 long blocks. They were like $2,300 plus a reasonable core/shipping charge. I'll look for the URL and edit this post if I can find it.

[Billla]

Originally Posted by mnunn454

$3,250 Ebay purchase which included brandy new Edelbrock Alum Performer Heads and Intake Manif. entire balanced shortblock including TRW forged pistons, Comp brand 286H Magnum cam and lifters, double row timing chain, new rings/bearings, oil pump etc., balancer and flexplate.

So - you got lucky (per my prior post), since the heads alone new are ~$1800 This is a great deal on a used engine; building from scratch this engine would be over 6K - agree?

[mnunn454]

Originally Posted by Billla

So - you got lucky (per my prior post), since the heads alone new are ~$1800 This is a great deal on a used engine; building from scratch this engine would be over 6K - agree?

Perhaps Bill. But not at all an uncommon. Watch Ebay for a while and see what similarly built 454's are going for.

[mnunn454]

Originally Posted by mnunn454

.....Also, while I was locating this particular engine, I ran across a really decent deal on remanufactured 454 long blocks. They were like $2,300 plus a reasonable core/shipping charge. I'll look for the URL and edit this post if I can find it.

EDIT: Sorry. I was wrong. It was $2,000 to $2,300 INCLUDING core charge, shipping handling/freight. 13 locations, so maybe one's near you. Also, it comes with a 5 year 100000 mile warranty. Your choice from a variety of longblocks, one's even a 496.

See the bottom of the page at http://www.powerpro2000.com/lb_chevrolet.htm

Anyone ever use these guys?

Doing the simple math here, that comes out to about $5 or $6 per HP/ftlb of TQ.

Betcha can't match that cost ratio with a 383 build plus get a huge warranty to boot.

[Billla]

"cost of the Longblock Engine plus the refundable core listed to the right of the Longblock cost" which was $850...about the going price for a core.

I'll stop I don't mean to split hairs; we just have different experiences with the cost of a BBC vs SBC build - I generally find that BBCs are ~$1000+ more than a comperable SBC build, and the gap widens as the HP/CID goes up beyond 1HP/CID.

Originally Posted by mnunn454

EDIT: Sorry. I was wrong. It was $2,000 to $2,300 INCLUDING core charge, shipping handling/freight. 13 locations, so maybe one's near you. Also, it comes with a 5 year 100000 mile warranty. Your choice from a variety of longblocks, one's even a 496.

See the bottom of the page at http://www.powerpro2000.com/lb_chevrolet.htm

Anyone ever use these guys?

Doing the simple math here, that comes out to about $5 or $6 per HP/ftlb of TQ.

Betcha can't match that cost ratio with a 383 build plus get a huge warranty to boot.

[Bowtie001]

I have to emphasize that this is all only my opinion. If you're not comfortable with the 400 then by all means don't do it. Just keep in mind that most of the 400 overheating rumors are due to the steam holes not being drilled properly. I had one in my camaro (much smaller radiator and grill) and we never overheated with a mere F body V6 electric fan.

If you are going to buy a core from ebay or something though, the 400 is pretty much unavailable. They are a little more unique, so not many people make "crate" engines out of them.

At any rate, a well built 383 will probably be fine for what you are doing.

Anyway - are you really full throttle through the desert? That sounds like fun, even with my 4 banger!

Enjoy the engine build regardless!
-Brian

[WorkinLonghorn]

Anyway - are you really full throttle through the desert?

LOL. What I meant was that pulling a combined weight of 10,000+ up these long steep desert grades would require flat-out throttle with a small block I imagine. The Mohave is a series of valleys and ridges,some nearly 5000 ft. and all share one thing; They are BRUTALLY hot in summer.
>>That's good to know about the steam holes.Maybe a 400 would be the way to go.I am guessing that the dimensions are the same and my brackets all would just bolt right up. HHHHmmmm....