Tranny/Transfer Case Opinions Wanted

[Pont]

Ok, I just lost the old Rockwell T221 transfer case in my truck and I've never liked the old SM420 four speed (bad syncros and rattling shifter) that's in the truck as well. Here's what I'm facing:

Either try a major overhaul of the Rockwell T/C (if I can even locate all the parts needed) or swap out for a newer T/C like the NP205. If I go with the NP205, I will more than likely switch to a SM465 trans or go one step further and swap in an Auto. What are your thoughts on this? Or, does anyone out there have for sale, all the internals for a Rockwell T221? I would imagine shipping a complete T/C would be more $$$ than it's worth. How about you guys with autos in your trucks? Would you rather have sticks? I personally could go either way and be happy, I just wanted to here your input on this and why you would rather have stick or auto.

Thanks guys..........wish me luck.............

[JimKshortstep4x4]

My choice would be either the 465/np205 combination or the TH350/np205 combination. (TH 400 are good, but rather hard to find). If you don't have a preference between stick or automatic, then your decision could be made on what is available within a reasonable driving distance.

Jim

[cheyenne10]

Pont;

I just sent you a PM hopefully we can work something out.

[Pont]

Thanks Bob. Keep in touch........

By the way, where in Oregon are you located? Same as your dad?

[Mudder]

I think its fun to drive a 4speed but love my auto. you can rebuild the 350 with 400 parts and makem pretty tuff. Mine shifts like it has a shift kit in it! The 205's are great.

[SoCal71K20]

On my 71 3/4 ton P.U.,I like the Turbo 350/NP 205 combination.
The Turbo 350 can be built as bad as you want it. When my 350
smallblock ever goes, then here comes a muscled 383 to put in
front.Gearing I'd say is about 4:56. I run BFG 33's.I think I can
go with 35's real easy.

[DaHateTank]

If I were you, Id definitely look for an NP205, due to their inherent strength, and relatively easy to find parts. Compared to the later NP203 they are also pretty compact.

As for the tranny, Id either rebuild the SM420 (major granny gear --7.20:1 1st, IIRC) or find an SM465 (6.50 ish 1st, IIRC, and easy parts availability, plus near bulletproof)

Personally, Id avoid theTH350, if I were you, mainly due to your 38s. A friend of mine (who builds SERIOUS drag cars -- no dumb ass) has gone through a couple of TH350s, in his 1/2 ton step side, with a mild 350, 36 swampers, and he doesn't beat it much at all (Basically a street driver, since our fav place to go wheeling, over that way, closed).

The trannies were pro-built by another friend's tranny shop, who had most of the rebuilt automatic market for eastern Iowa and western Illinois ( -- again, no dumb ass) I have concerns about the size of the internal parts (gears, shafts, etc)

they work great in drag cars, where the weight is kept low, and street cars, which have no traction, but when you start sandwiching them between big tires, and big blocks, you neeed serious beef, IMO.

I am sure someone will make a big deal about how they've gotten by, just fine with a TH350, 502 and 44s, (there always is somebody, on the internet), but this is just my opinion/experience...

Another factor, in my preference for manual trannies, is compression braking, off-road. You can put a 4spd in low and idle down hills alot better, than the same situation with an auto.

My SM465 has been living well, behind my mild 396/350+ for ten years, and Ive driven it hard enough to kill a twelve bolt, with 36 tires...

If you do go the TH350 route, I would think serious gears (4.56 or better) will help alot, since 1st gear in a TH350 is only about 2 something to 1.

-M

[DINS 1]

a 465 and a 205 is a good combo. th 400 np 205 would be good to. if you want overdrive then you have to spend the big bucks and get a 4l80e and the computer to run it. there are a couple ways to get a 4l80e and a np 205 to go together.

[6869704X4]

205 is the King of cases.

[too many]

This was a small block- 4spd when I bought it 8 yrs ago.

I put a 454 - TH400/ 205 setup in it right away. A little hard to find but worth it! I plow snow with a 9'plow and pull a 28' enclosed trailer! Ever try plowing for 12 hrs with a stick? Good for the left leg "workout"!

For a driver an O.drive would be nice tho! Im planning on a 700 /205 in a 67 shorty 4x4 that wont be "working" quite as hard as the one ton! Good luck ,and let us know what you decide!

[bouncytruck]

My buddy has a '66 with the divorced T221 that is destroyed. He has been looking (passively) for about 8 months for some used parts. He can buy what he needs new, but the parts alone are going to run in the $500-600 range. I'm sure that you could pick up a tranny/t-case combo for less than that. Your probably going to need to get your driveshaft lenths adjusted. Check the ColoradoK5 boards and Pirate4x4 boards. There was a guy in the Bend area selling several t-cases a while back but I can't remember his board name on CK5.

[Scrub]

Hey Pont,
I think I can get you a rockwell for like $175 if you are interested.
It's in Sisters.

Lemmy know.

Anyone know what a th400/205 combo is worth?

Scrub

twscannell@hotmail.com

[Pont]

Thanks everyone, you've pretty much confirmed what I've been thinking before my mishap happened. Go with the 205! Rock solid and much easier to get parts or a replacement. I could still go auto or stick, it doesn't really matter to me, which ever comes along first. Around here, it's not common to see a NP205/TH400 combo for sale but NP205/4spd and NP205/TH350 are fairly common. They usually go for around $250-$300. Some need work, some are fresh pulls from rigs being parted. It's just finding the right deal at the right time. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I find one soon.

Scrub, I'm looking to do this quick so if I don't find a later model combo to install, I'll get ahold of you and see if the T221 is still available. I found one in Hood River for $200, but your closer and your price is better as well. I'll let you know............ Thanks

[teeitup]

I was wondering the same thing about trannys and transfers. Now I think I'm going to put the TH350 and NP 205 in my 67 and get away from the rockwell and sm420. Now I'll have to find a cross member. I might put the same thing in my burb only it has a sm465. THANKS for asking this ??? Pont!!!! Randy

[too many]

Hey Pont! Ive got an idea! You could "donate" that ol 67 that nobody wants to me. Ive got a 400 /205 we could put in it AND I'd let you drive it anytime you want! LOL

Actually a 67 4x4 shorty is my "dream" truck!

Both you and teeitup have the ultimate rides!!!! Steve

[Pont]

Ok Steve, so long as you let me drive it from time to time and we can't forget the other Randy (Mudder67), his truck was a huge motivator for me to get busy on mine. Thanks for the kind words............


Today I got a killer deal on an SM465/NP205 combo. FREE!!! (I also scored the Dana 44 out of it so I can build a high pinion D44 for better front driveshaft angles) I need to pull it out of a driver this weekend and get it ready to go into my 67. So here's my question:

What's involved with this swap? Has anyone else installed this setup in place of the SM420/Rockwell T221 combo? My first guess would be possible driveshaft mods, depending on thickness difference between the 205 and 221. Also, what about tranny mount and crossmember. Any problems installing this setup where a SM420 and T221 used to be?

Any heads up would be appreciated before I start the swap. Thanks again guys..........

Rob

[6869704X4]

Cant beat FREE!!!. You lucky ba$tard. Way to go man.
I'll give you twice that for it.

[Scrub]

Pont,
If you can, I think you want to grab the cross member that the T-case is bolted to and the side flange that bolts to the passenger side of the 205. It has rubber mounts. Can you steal the drive lines too? Most had a really large diameter single piece rear shaft, that is a "piece"it you get my drift. I would try to go with a 2 piece rear, but it means an extra cross member, usually found in a 2wd. I would be real surprised if your rockwell drivelines fit.

Good luck

[breeh]

I swapped the Rockwell TC with 4 speed out of my 68 and put it into my 72 which had a TH350 and NP205. The TC crossmembers were identical as were the frame mounts on the sides of both styles of TC's. I took the NP205 and attached it to a 700R4 and put this combo into my 68. I had a new driveline made because I put in a D60 rear as well and it has larger u-joints (in addition to the fact that I swapped in a 427 where there had been a 250 and I wanted a stronger driveshaft). I had to change TC crossmember locations on both trucks but my swap was different than yours. I would bet that you will have to modify the driveshaft however.

OK, so did any of that make sense?

[Pont]

UPDATE:
The free SM465 and NP205 are not going in my truck. I went to pull these pieces out of a driver and I'm glad I checked things out before going through the trouble. Front output on the t-case sounds really bad. I pulled the drain plug and out comes metal. DAMN! So I went ahead and pulled the drain plug on the 4spd as well. Yep, small metalic flakes in the fluid. Well, I don't have the time or funds to mess with rebuilding these so I'm back at searching for parts again.

I've located a couple TH350/NP205 setups and now I need some info from you experts out there.

Can I easily modify my crossmember to work with an auto or am I going to need an auto crossmember? Anyone have one resonable? Also, if I do go with an auto setup, who has an auto non tilt column for sale and how much? What about linkage from the column to the trans? Any other brackets or frame pieces that I'm going to need? I'll throw on a large tranny cooler for now, replace the radiator later. Am I forgeting anything?

Thanks in advance for the help.............

Rob

[srhart71]

Pont,
In the tech articles, there is one that deals with replacing a manual with an auto. Even though it is for a 2wd, the switch and partsa needed are basically the same.

[Mudder]

A young friend of mine took my 350 turbo and rebuilt it using all the 400 turbo parts he could. I'm not sure what he used but it shifts like it has a shift kit in it. I havent ever had any problems with it . I added a extra tranny cooler and a deep aluminum pan. This was done back in the early 90's so its been about 10 years now. I have been thinking about having it redone. But why? Think I'll just drive it till it goes.If you can't find a good column in a reasonable amount of time let me know. I think I have one in the garage.

[FRENCHBLUE72]

If you need a cross member Rob let me know a buddy of mine fabs up some tublar ones that are killer looking......I picked up my motor from sat on friday is that your truck on booth I only saw the front ?? And there was a red toy landcruiser out front is that yours , it looks like on that john grooves restored? Let me know if ya need help with parts or what ever.....

[Pont]

Hey Luke, thanks for the offer on parts. Right now I'm holding out and actively looking for a 4spd/NP205 combo but all I can find at the monent are TH350/NP205 combos. I talked with Breeh on this board who has done this conversion and he said that my stock crossmember will work with an auto so I think I'm fine there. Maybe I'll opt for a nice tubular crossmember at a later date. Yes that is my truck you saw sitting at D street and Booth. That's where I live. The Landcruiser doesn't belong to me and it's not there very often. I think they are just in the neighborhood visiting from time to time.

As I get closer to deciding if I'm going to stay with a 4spd setup or convert to auto, I'll keep you in mind on any parts I might need. Hey, who has a stick or auto/NP205 combo for sale in our area? I've found a couple TH350/NP205 combos but it doesn't hurt to ask what else is out there. Might even find a better price or someone willing to do some trading! Let me know if you know of any combos out there.

Happy holidays to ya and thanks again...........

Rob

[Mudder]

When and if you decide you want this column let me know.