Need flaring & tube bending advice...

[COBALT]

I may have to fab up a new fuel line from my mechanical fuel pump up to my little 2gv Rochester 2bbl carb. I'm not going to even think about trying to find a pre-bent line.

Anyone have an angle on a good flaring and bending tool set I could buy? I know I'd use it a lot over the years...

...also where do you guys get tubing for fuel, tranny cooling, brakes, etc?

[hecticblasts]

I usually get the tubing at the parts store,it comes flared at both ends with the fittings.They come in different lenghts,so I'll pick one a little longer that what I need.The racks with the tubing are generally located behind the counter,just ask one of the guys and they'll point you to it.
The tubing bender that I have is made by Rigid,they make plumbing tools and I think The Home Depot carries that line of tools,I bought mine through work from Grainger,it's sturdy and makes some good bends.Harbor Freight has one similar to it but is of very low quality,it will work fine with copper but not steel.
My flaring kit came from Sears,it has all the gizmos to do double flaring,wich you will need if doing brake lines.
I try to mock up the shape of the line with wire(cloth hangers work good)and then use that as a pattern to bend the line.
Before I flare the ends,especially double flares,I take a piece of tubing that I'm not going to use and practice with it a couple times.That way I know exactly how much tubing to let protude for the best looking flare.HF

[COBALT]

Cool. Thanks a ton. Time to go shopping...

[JimKshortstep4x4]

I got my double flare tool set from Eastwood and it works very well. The inserts for the double flare have the dimensions made into them for measuring the tube length to cut for double flaring. The set will also do single flares. I also, got their tube bender, (the hand bender) and it works well.

Jim

[Don Smith]

For a long time I cut the tubing for double flares with one of the tube cuttters with the wheel. I recently found out I can make double flares better and with minimal tube clamp marks if I cut the tube with a hack saw instead of tubing cutter and hand file it before making the flare, particularly on the larger dia. tubes.

[Fred T]

As far as benders go, a set of spring tube benders will work reasonably well. Rather than flaring, when I need to cut off one end of a line I use a compression fitting, as long as it isn't a hydraulic line.

[Blaze69]

Hey Fred,
Does the compression fitting work as well as the double flare for brake lines? It would be alot easier......

[Ed ke6bnl]

Originally posted by Blaze69
Hey Fred,
Does the compression fitting work as well as the double flare for brake lines? It would be alot easier......

ABSOLUTELY NOT, steel lines need a double flare, stainless steel needs a 37 degree flare with an AN fittings for brake lines and my experience with compression fittings is that they will break easily at the fitting with vibration. I am not fond of compreesion fitting. Just my experience and readings. Ed ke6bnl

[BobbyK]

Here's the Rolls Royce of tubing benders.I've used one.Flares lines like butta.Expensive though(understatement)
click here

[tim m]

When I was doing brake lines, I first bent some 1/4 inch copper, it was a lot cheaper than the stainless. Then when I had the bends right, I used the stainless.

[Yellow Cheyenne]

When doing the double flare the instructions I have tell you to use a file or emery cloth to taper the end that is going to be flared. For me, I've found that to be a fairly important step if you want a successful double flare. If you don't do that, the line tends to split. I use a NAPA flare set.

[kxmotox247]

Originally posted by Blaze69
Hey Fred,
Does the compression fitting work as well as the double flare for brake lines? It would be alot easier......

I'm not Fred, but I can tell you that compression fittings work great in brake lines. I work at a machine shop that has a fairly large hyraulics shop too. Our master hydraulic guy says that compression fittings are fine. I did my street rod brake system like that and I had no leaks at any of the compression fittings.
Double flaring sucks.

[Yellow Cheyenne]

I'm with Fred ek, I don't think compression fittings should be used on brake lines. Been told many times not to, but can't quote any experts. The way I look at it, if the manufacturers of vehicles won't use them, why would I want to take the chance.

[Fred T]

D.O.T. says no compression fittings on brake lines. Double flares only.

[kxmotox247]

Not trying to argue here...so don't take it the wrong way.

I've used them for the first time over a year ago on a street rod and haven't had any problems at all. In fact, it made the job of running brake lines from scratch a simple chore. The only leaks I had were from the fittings at the caliper...not where I would have traditionally used a union and possibly had a leak.

What is supposed to be so bad about using them? If the brake line is rigidly secured on both sides of the compression fitting with line clips, how can they vibrate? I can see that if the line isn't supported...that's understandable.
And also, my car, and my truck for that matter aren't daily drivers.

What are the problems?

Like I said, I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong but if they're bad to use, I want to know why and what to look for before I'm driving and my brakes go out.

[kxmotox247]

....maybe there is a break in the communication. I'm learning that there are two different metals that compression fittings can be made out of....brass and copper.

The copper ones are the type of fittings that can crack or break. I know copper when crack when overflexed. It becomes brittle over time and can break.

The brass ones are the ones that I'm using. I did some internet searching and found some negatives about using them...but no real specifics on failures. Then I came across a website that sell them...for go carts with hydraulic brake lines.

http://www.mfgsupply.com/GoMiniBrakesBrass.html

Here is one guy using them on his truck:

http://www.pavementsucks.com/tech/brakeline.php

In the end, I found lots of sites saying not to use them...so maybe I have a dangerous car then. Some of the same sites also say not to use unions to lengthen a line. I don't know. Anyone have any first hand experience?

[COBALT]

...well since this discussion has moved more toward material science and the debate between double flaring and compression fittings I doubt anyone cares that I went ahead and bought the tubing setup from Eastwood Company. lol

Interesting thoughts here though. I've never even considered compression fittings for brake lines (not that I'd run out and replace my lines tomorrow "just to see"), but interesting to think about.

[kxmotox247]

Well...good move on the purchase anyhow. You can't go wrong by using the double flares.
They were always a pain. I could never get the 2nd flare to come out right. Good luck!

[JimKshortstep4x4]

I wanted to second Yellow Cheyenne's comment on filing/forming the end, (taper). It is critical as to whether the first operation will
form the tube correctly or not. Also, a poorly formed chamfer, (taper) can lead to cracking.

I would suggest practicing on a scrap tube before doing the real thing if you have not made a double flare before, just to see how it works. I prefer to use a vise to hold the clamp, but it is not necessary to get a good flare. The nice thing about making your own double flares is that you can duplicate the factory lines as to length, bends, rock guards, etc. I like making brake lines and you can tell if the flares are good or not after you make a few so that you know that they will not leak. I have had to retighten some fittings, but that has happened to me with parts store fittings, also.

Good luck!

Jim