In-truck Head Removal - need advice

[highperf4x4]

I would invest the money in a valve job if it was me. They really only need to replace the valves that are too bad to be turned and using a reputable machine shop will give you more piece of mind. Sometimes the reman head shops go through them too fast to do a good job and you really don't know if they did a 3 angle grind or a 2 angle on the valves and seats.

I would also recommend doing both. If you find that you have to rebuild the engine sooner than expected you won't have to do anything with the heads but pull them off and put them back provided that you didn't overheat the engine or throw a rod.

As for the bottom end, if your oil pressure is ok, it wasn't smoking at higher rpms, you don't have any rods making noise, there isn't any copper in the lifter galley and all the lifters appear to be rising to the same height then you're probably ok.

So, I would do the valve job, clean everything up and slap it back together. Since you have it torn down this far, I'd probalby go ahead and replace the timing chain and front seal too.

[mrein3]

I would definately do a valve job on both sides. Hardened seats, bronze-wall guides, etc.

I don't remember exactly but I think the last time I did a pair it was $125/side.

Now is a really good time to replace the timing chain.

Paint the heads right away when you get them back. While they are at the machine shop you can change out the timing chain. With the timing chain cover off you can clean it up and paint it to match the heads. Since the valve covers are laying there you can clean and paint them too. Same with the intake.

With most of the engine sheet metal all fresh looking and fresh paint on the rebuilt heads you'll have to snap some pictures for us to drool over. Not only will your engine run good it will also look good too.

rebuilt heads $250
New timing chain $40
Gasket set $125
2 cans Chevy orange paint $15

Sweet looking, good running Chevy: Priceless.

[gcburdic]

Originally Posted by highperf4x4

Eraser is right. Your heads won't have hardened valve seats unless someone had them installed before you. However, your heads aren't cheap like small block heads would be so you need to investigate prices a little bit. One thing you don't want to do though is swap yours for heads with larger combustion chambers. You'll lose alot of power. Make sure they're giving you the same heads if you're gonna trade yours in.

After reading this post, I am convinced (but you don't have to convince me...it's not my $$$$....) if one side didn't have hardened valve seats, why would the other??....It's the old "might as well" factor that I learned on my build.....So RippinJ....looks like a rebuild is in your future....and all the might as well's too......should be fun, and don't hesitate to ask me to come down and help....I'm learning right here with ya man and look forward to helping you where ya need it!!!!

[Rippin-J]

done. I'm pulling off the other head this week when I have some time. There is a machine shop down the road I had recommended to me, so may start there. thanks all for the insight.

Good point on the timing chain ...if it's right there I may as well replace it.

on to another thing I might consider clearing up now ...wiring. It this the time to go ahead and replace the engine compartment harness? There are gremlins somewhere in my electrical, and as you can tell from the pic I included earlier (the one with the valley), whoever did it didn't care too much about doing it the right way.

Honestly I would prefer to do it down the road if what I have now will work for the time being (say, 6 mo to 1 year). But 'if it makes sense...'

opinions?

[gcburdic]

Hey J,

post a WTB ad over in the parts section and see if anyone has one that is in pretty good shape....I say replace it now if you can....why wait for the truck to burn up and say if I only replaced that when I was there?!?!?....Just my $0.02!!

[gcburdic]

Sorry for the double post.....

by the way J, i think I saw a harness for the headlight section in my garage last night....if you need it??

[Rippin-J]

actually the wiring for the lights and everything is clean and functional. it's everything the leads to the motor that is half-assed.

Here is the thread I posted for WTB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...31#post3339131

going to try to get head #2 out tomorrow evening and will update thereafter.

as usual, thanks to everyone for the input ....very, very helpful.

[gcburdic]

need help with the other head??....I can bring the harness I have so we can see if it is needed?!?!?

[highperf4x4]

Originally Posted by Rippin-J

done. I'm pulling off the other head this week when I have some time. There is a machine shop down the road I had recommended to me, so may start there. thanks all for the insight.

Good point on the timing chain ...if it's right there I may as well replace it.

on to another thing I might consider clearing up now ...wiring. It this the time to go ahead and replace the engine compartment harness? There are gremlins somewhere in my electrical, and as you can tell from the pic I included earlier (the one with the valley), whoever did it didn't care too much about doing it the right way.

Honestly I would prefer to do it down the road if what I have now will work for the time being (say, 6 mo to 1 year). But 'if it makes sense...'

opinions?

You're welcome.

As for your question about the wiring, I'm the wrong guy to ask. I hate wiring !

You will find a million "do it while you're this far" reasons to mess with stuff. Wiring would probably be at the top of the list though. Like someone said, it could cause you some serious grief. At the very least, track down your problems and make sure they're fixed properly.

[gcburdic]

Originally Posted by mrein3

While they are at the machine shop you can change out the timing chain. With the timing chain cover off you can clean it up and paint it to match the heads.

J....you're probably getting tired of me posting in here, but I saw this thread about replacing the timing chain....thought it might help too....http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=334774

Okay....I'll quit posting....

[mrein3]

Oh man! I almost forgot. With the timing chain cover off, pop in a new front oil seal. Consider an offset seal if there is a decent groove in the balancer.

[Rippin-J]

post away!

i found that same thread earlier ...def useful. thanks for sharing, GC.

I will probably start another thread asking for help in diagnosing the wiring problem so I don't just go pulling/replacing things and so I can keep this thread strictly about the issue at-hand - in-truck head removal

[highperf4x4]

Originally Posted by Rippin-J

post away!

i found that same thread earlier ...def useful. thanks for sharing, GC.

Do not ever, under any circumstance, hit your crankshaft with anything. I'd skip that thread.

If you have trouble getting your new crankshaft gear on, go stick it in the oven at about 400 degrees for a couple hours. Put on some welding gloves, pull it out, and go slide it on the crank as fast as you can. Keep both gloves over it until you're ready to slide it onto the crank. Air will shrink it quick.

If for some reason you can't make this work, then get the installer that screws into the end of your crankshaft.

Do not ever, under any circumstance, hit your crankshaft with anything.

[Rippin-J]

*** UPDATE ***

got the second head out tonight with little trouble outside of figuring out how the alternator and power steering pump were mounted to it. AND, I did the fuel test on this header too and found that my #3 has a leaky INTAKE valve! That didn't show up on the compression test, but it definitely leaked fuel.

anyway, when I got home tonight I snapped some pics I thought were cool. Check it out.

[highperf4x4]

Awesome!!!!

Especially that last one dude. You mind if I rob it?

[slicks garage]

So, not to be a smart ass here. But you pulled the intake, distributor, heads, your into the timing chain cover.
And all you would have had to do is remove 3 torque converter bolts, (auto trans), 6 bell housing bolts, drop the starter, two engine mount bolts and you could be working on the thing on an engine stand, out of the truck.
Clean up the whole block and paint the whole damn thing and it would look brand new. Good luck on replacing the timing cover seal with the oil pan on the block, that's fun on a small block chevy.
I guess 15 years as an automotive machinist might have taught me a thing or two.
Long way around the block there little feller.......... Pull the "short block" out of the truck and assemble it with all new gaskets. Your 80% of the way there.

[gcburdic]

J...those pics look like something scary is getting ready to happen!!!yikes!!!....should of turned the headlights on....can you say Christine!!!....

Hey slick...that's a great idea....

[highperf4x4]

Originally Posted by slicks garage

So, not to be a smart ass here. But you pulled the intake, distributor, heads, your into the timing chain cover.
And all you would have had to do is remove 3 torque converter bolts, (auto trans), 6 bell housing bolts, drop the starter, two engine mount bolts and you could be working on the thing on an engine stand, out of the truck.
Clean up the whole block and paint the whole damn thing and it would look brand new. Good luck on replacing the timing cover seal with the oil pan on the block, that's fun on a small block chevy.
I guess 15 years as an automotive machinist might have taught me a thing or two.
Long way around the block there little feller.......... Pull the "short block" out of the truck and assemble it with all new gaskets. Your 80% of the way there.

Pulling the heads off the motor in the truck is easy. He can do it standing up and he doesn't need any help. Unless he's 4'8". For him to pull the engine and stab it back himself would be difficult. Getting to the starter and bell housing bolts would also be tough and he'd have to block up the transmission. He'd have to pull the starter and set it aside, pull the bolts out of the torque converter, block up the transmission and pull the bell housing bolts, get an engine hoist and hook it up to the block, pull the motor mount bolts, disconnect the oil pressure line, disconnect the fuel lines to the fuel pump, and then try to stab a fully built engine by himself when he says he never messed with this stuff before and put all that back. How would that make anything easier? It wouldn't

I've been building performance engines for 20 years and If I'm just doing heads or even a cam replacement, I don't pull the motor.

He's also got a big block, not a small block. Guess you missed that. And you only have loosen the oil pan bolts to pull or replace the timing cover. Super easy.

[Rippin-J]

Heads are at the shop! Nichols' Engineering in Gastonia, NC - run out of Dale Nichols' garage for the past 35 years. Very nice guy ...I feel really good about the work they'll be doing. Always a relief when you can take projects to a shop and feel good about it (vs get the run-around).

based on what they said on seeing my heads, the carb (either the Holley I have on there now, or the Quad that was on there ...or both!) is running VERY rich and a likely culprit of deterioration. they didn't bat an eye at the simplicity of the fix, just that i may need to adjust the carb once I get it all back on there again (will require some advice on this when the time comes).

Should have them back by end of next week, in the meantime:
- clean (intake man, old gaskets, etc)
- scrape
- prep
- hunt for electrical drain
- purchase new gaskets
- paint

am I missing anything?

[mrein3]

Originally Posted by Rippin-J

Heads are at the shop! Nichols' Engineering in Gastonia, NC - run out of Dale Nichols' garage for the past 35 years. Very nice guy ...I feel really good about the work they'll be doing. Always a relief when you can take projects to a shop and feel good about it (vs get the run-around).

based on what they said on seeing my heads, the carb (either the Holley I have on there now, or the Quad that was on there ...or both!) is running VERY rich and a likely culprit of deterioration. they didn't bat an eye at the simplicity of the fix, just that i may need to adjust the carb once I get it all back on there again (will require some advice on this when the time comes).

Should have them back by end of next week, in the meantime:
- clean (intake man, old gaskets, etc)
- scrape
- prep
- hunt for electrical drain
- purchase new gaskets
- paint

am I missing anything?

There is nothing like having a good shop you feel confident in.

The electrical drain is easy. Hook up a test light between the negative battery cable and the negative post on the battery. It should be on if you have something draining power. Pull fuses one at a time. When the light goes out you know what circuit to look at. Search this forum for a wiring diagram. Somebody color-coded one and posted it. Trace down ALL the wires in that circuit.
Fix the bad spot.
Verify your work with the test light.
Move on.

[Rippin-J]

like this?

[highperf4x4]

Yeah, like that

[Rippin-J]

Got a call from the machine shop and they've finished up the heads. now it's on me to get everything else ready for installation!

apparently the valves that had issues weren't seating correctly, but were all in good shape. they simply had to shim those valves to get them to seat up well.

headed outside now to remove old gasket debris!

[Rippin-J]

some intake manifold/carbueration questions:
- what is the function of the dark ridge on the front of the carb mount (pointing to with screw driver)? I don't notice it on any of the manifolds in the catalogs. The intake is stock and for a QJet but I have a Holley on it now. the gasket that I have covers this trough... would that affect performance in any major way?
- i was told at the shop that the amount of carbon build-up means that the motor was/is running rich (not sure which carb is the culprit). is this fix as easy as adjusting the carb once I get the motor put back together?

- finally, should I try to clean the tops of the pistons? they have a good amount of carbon build-up from running rich. what is the best way to go about this without causing harm in the cylinder? same with the 1/4" ring at the top of the cylinder ...carbon on that as well, should I clean it?

[gcburdic]

Good to see you working on it J....not sure about any of your questions, but I'd change that crappy thermostat housing and install a new thermostat too (I think a 180 degree would be good, but I'll leave this to others as well)...You should be able to get those at a local auto parts store...oh make sure you get a new gasket too...I used the felpro perma-dry and it sealed up great!...probably $20 for all that stuff...