Need help from magazine collectors

[Critter]

I was told there is an article in the May 2006 edition of 4Wheeler Magazine that I want to get my hands on. Does anyone here have a bunch of those laying around that could confirm the article is actually there? I think I can order a reprint from them if I need to but wanted to make sure the article actually existed. Its basically a drivetrain swap article somewhere between page 80-90. Thanks.

[1985-GMC]

Sorry the newest ones i have are 2005, But is it "Four Wheeler" magazine or "4Wheel" magazine? That might make finding it a little easier.

[Critter]

Originally Posted by 1985-GMC

Sorry the newest ones i have are 2005, But is it "Four Wheeler" magazine or "4Wheel" magazine? That might make finding it a little easier.

Good question...I was told this verbally so I'm not 100% sure. I'm thinking maybe it is "Four Wheeler".

[rwolf9653]

What swap? I will look through some magazines that I have laying around and see what I can come up with, but there usually are the same write ups in different magazines. Four wheeler and 4wheel off road kinda do the same builds and say the same stuff over and over again.

[Critter]

I don't think it's an overly technical swap, but I am trying to do all the research possible. I want to adapt a 4l65e tranny (NOT a 700r4 or early 4L60e) to my original 1972 NP205. There is a kit from Adv Adapters, but the techs there weren't ovely knowlegable about actually installing it. Supposedly the magazine did this exact swap with the AA parts so I would really enjoy reading it. I appreciate any input available.

[Thealien]

I have been researching this for a possible 5.3 4L60/65e swap into my Jimmy. The part numbers are 50-6900 for the output shaft and 50-0405 for the 6 bolt to 4 bolt adapter with reluctor ring for the VSS needed for transmission computer control. If you are not going to be putting this behind an engine where the PCM controls the transmission you will need to find a stand alone transmsiion control and they can be expensive. One of the problems is to install the output shaft the whole transmission needs to be rebuilt adding a lot of cost to this swap . Most of the prices I have been getting for the transmission rebuilt using the adavance adapter parts is about $2000+ not including the $448 advance adapters parts (I have a source for the parts a little cheaper about $400).

With all that being said I am looking for a used 4L60/65e to experimant on. I think there is enough spline sticking out of the 4X4 4L60/65e to cut it to the correct length for the NP205 coupler stick out. There is about 2 1/2 inches of spline on the 4L60 and about 1 1/2 would need to be cut off leaving about an inch. There is about an inch stick out on a 4X4 TH350. Some may say that is hack? Maybe so but if I can save $2000 until it fails I will have a transmission to rebuild. I hope this helps some.

[Thealien]

Here are the parts. I was just at their site.



Output shaft


Adapter Spacer with VSS

[Thealien]

BTW with this adapter the transmission OAL is the same as a 700R4

[Critter]

Originally Posted by Thealien

I have been researching this for a possible 5.3 4L60/65e swap into my Jimmy. The part numbers are 50-6900 for the output shaft and 50-0405 for the 6 bolt to 4 bolt adapter with reluctor ring for the VSS needed for transmission computer control. If you are not going to be putting this behind an engine where the PCM controls the transmission you will need to find a stand alone transmsiion control and they can be expensive. One of the problems is to install the output shaft the whole transmission needs to be rebuilt adding a lot of cost to this swap . Most of the prices I have been getting for the transmission rebuilt using the adavance adapter parts is about $2000+ not including the $448 advance adapters parts (I have a source for the parts a little cheaper about $400).

Yep, I have found out most of this as well. I plan to put it behind a LQ4 6.0 Liter so the PCM and wiring harness should be able to be configured for the 4L65E without any problems. Also, I have the ability to rebuild trannys so I don't mind tearing it down to put the shaft it if I need to. If I can get by just cutting the shaft I will, but at this point I don't have a tranny to measure off of, so we will see I guess.

Originally Posted by Thealien

Here are the parts. I was just at their site.



Output shaft


Adapter Spacer with VSS

That's why I was hoping to find this article, they apparently used this exact equipment. I am curious how "easy" or hard it was. In other words, were there any hidden grimlens that came out in the middle of it.

Originally Posted by Thealien

BTW with this adapter the transmission OAL is the same as a 700R4

I think you are right.

[Thealien]

Originally Posted by Critter

Yep, I have found out most of this as well. I plan to put it behind a LQ4 6.0 Liter so the PCM and wiring harness should be able to be configured for the 4L65E without any problems. Also, I have the ability to rebuild trannys so I don't mind tearing it down to put the shaft it if I need to. If I can get by just cutting the shaft I will, but at this point I don't have a tranny to measure off of, so we will see I guess.

If you should happen to find this info and or get the AA output shaft and can compare it to I would love to have this info also




That's why I was hoping to find this article, they apparently used this exact equipment. I am curious how "easy" or hard it was. In other words, were there any hidden grimlens that came out in the middle of it.

From everything I have seen/read including talking to transmission shops the output shaft is just a shorter version of the stock output shaft and is no different than a standard rebuild. Here is the measurement differences as given by AA

Stock GM 4.5" stickout

50-6900 2.375" stickout

Geno R. Burrell

Advance Adapters Inc.

Sales & Tech Support





I think you are right.

Please keep me in mind if you find additional information. If I should get my hands on a used transmission and cut the shaft I will let you know how it works out.

[Thealien]

If the original transmission was a 4L80 there are a couple of wires that need to be swapped for a 4L60. Also if you need to buy the AA parts and want to save a couple of bucks PM me and I will forward my contact and pricing.

Be advised that if you cut the 4L60 shaft you need a different reluctor than if you use the 50-6900 AA output shaft

[Critter]

Originally Posted by Thealien

Please keep me in mind if you find additional information. If I should get my hands on a used transmission and cut the shaft I will let you know how it works out.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Thealien

If the original transmission was a 4L80 there are a couple of wires that need to be swapped for a 4L60. Also if you need to buy the AA parts and want to save a couple of bucks PM me and I will forward my contact and pricing.

Be advised that if you cut the 4L60 shaft you need a different reluctor than if you use the 50-6900 AA output shaft

I will definitly let you know when I am ready to pull the trigger, I appreciate the help.

Can you give me more info on the reluctor ring issue. What would be the difference between the the stock and aftermarket ones?

[Thealien]

Originally Posted by Critter

Thank you!



I will definitly let you know when I am ready to pull the trigger, I appreciate the help.

Can you give me more info on the reluctor ring issue. What would be the difference between the the stock and aftermarket ones?

If you go to advance adapters and search for 50-0405. Click on the picture and a description and bigger peicture will pop up. At the bottom is a description and it explains the two reluctor rings and their part numbers. They are included in that kit but you have to specify if you are using the stock GM output shaft or the AA 50-6900 shaft (I believe the kit defaults to that one). This would really only be a concern if I/we cut the shaft. If you happen to do this and use the AA shaft could you please take a picture of the two shafts side by side. That would give me a better idea if the shaft can be cut. Using the measurements of the two shafts I got from AA it would seem I would have to cut 2.125 inches off the GM shaft leaving only about .375 inches of spline left (probably not enough). But doing the measurements on a 4X4 transmission it seems like it might work. I would hate to buy a junk yard transmission only to find it wouldn't work.

[Thealien]

Are you keeping the NP205 in the stock location or moving it back? What sre you going to do to the shifter if you move it?

The reason I ask is I am moving my engine forward so I don't have to change the drive shafts or shifter. If you are moving the TC back and are making new drive shafts AA makes additional spacers that would make the stock GM output shaft work.In this picture the 6 bolt to 4 bolt adapter is against the transmission and a spacer is against the coupler.

[Critter]

Originally Posted by Thealien

Are you keeping the NP205 in the stock location or moving it back? What sre you going to do to the shifter if you move it?

Well, I am hoping to not use any more spacers than I have to. I am basically stripping my blazer all the way down and restoring it so I have a little bit of flexabilty. I don't have a problem moving the engine forward to the next set of mounting holes (but no further) with a new cross member and I can build new/relocate the trans cross members as needed. I will be fitting this drivetrain to a bare frame so I will probably just make adjustments as I get it all together. I also plan to have a double cardan rear shaft build for my new 14bff rear axle so that isn't a problem. The front driveshaft may or may not work depending on everythings, but I will have another one built if I need to. My only other concern is the shifter hole, I think between moving the engine forward 2 inches and opening up the shifter floor hole a little if I have to, then I should be fine. I guess we will see as I start gathering all these parts...

[Critter]

ttt for someone with the article???

[Thealien]

Have you tried emailing either magazine?

Bump for you

[Thealien]

I will have pictures of the GM 4X4 shaft and the AA 700R/4L60 to NP205 shaft today.

[Critter]

Originally Posted by Thealien

Have you tried emailing either magazine?

No I haven't, but I need to.

Originally Posted by Thealien

I will have pictures of the GM 4X4 shaft and the AA 700R/4L60 to NP205 shaft today.

Awesome, I'm sure you are already planning to post pics for me, right?

[Thealien]

I have a picture of the stock 4L60 4X4 output shaft next to advance adapters 50-6900 shaft for use when attaching a 4L60 to an NP205 transfer case. You would also need their 6 bolt to 4 bolt adapter part number 50-0405.

When getting the parts I also got a surprise. Some massaging of the adapter and transmission pan will be needed. I am a little pissed after all the talking with them and looking on their site I was not informed of this.
.625 inches needs to be trimmed from the flange of our adapter. I will not know how acurate that machining needs to be done until I have all my parts out in a week or 2 or 3? I believe it is not the part that seals against the adapter so I "think" this can be done with a cut off wheel.

Second issue is the front driveshaft will most likely hit/rub the front part of the transmission pan. I will not know the extent of this unti everything is installed. I have heard some just hit/dent the pan. Some have cut the corner out and welded a flat piece in its place (not much room to the valve body behind that pan). If you are going with a lift this will probably not be a problem. I am staying stock height so it is a problem .

Now about that shaft. There would not be much spline left after cutting the shaft. With that being said I think you could probably weld the coupler shaft to the output shaft? Between the 1/4 inch of spline and weld who knows how long it would last. If the shaft broke you would just be doing what I am doing now with the AA shaft. My transmission guy is swapping shafts, adding a stronger sun shell, and a new set of clutches for $300 labor plus parts. Sun shel is about $50 and whatever a clutch pack costs?

Here is the picture.........

[Thealien]

The additional information

[Critter]

Hmm...that isn't very good news. I don't mind trimming my coupling sleeve, but I'm not crazy about hacking on the factory adapter.

[Thealien]

you can always buy theirs


50-5302

[Critter]

True. I have heard hearsay that the 6 bolt pattern on the back of the 4L65E is the same as the back of the th400. So in other words, a stock gm th400/np205 adapter and a shorter shaft would be all thats needed??? I don't think that's the case. Have you ever heard that?

[Thealien]

I've never heard that but not having a 400 I wasn't really looking? I will update as my project progresses. I m actually going to start a build thread when My engine is out!