Pilot Bearing Opinion: Needle vs Solid

[RuralRoute C-30]

When given a choice for a pilot bearing is there any opinions on needle vs solid? Either one better than the other?

Here is an example of what the books don't tell you and my common sense failed to tap me on the shoulder to suggest I look closely or ask someone. There is a front and back to these bearings. Duh! (I didn't 'think'.)

So today my humility and I are paying for my mistake, or should I say for learning from "experience". Not the first time, won't be the last I am sure!

Now I get more "experience" to replace a new one for not paying attention to the tapered front vs back of the bearing and in the process learned how not to install it. I mushroomed the darn thing in the process and the alignment tool won't slide in.



Since I don't want to waste a day driving for parts I have two today with the option to return the one not used.

Going to try to beat the heat and get this done this morning after chores but this is the only thing holding this clutch job up. Everything else is ready to go. (dime holding up a dollar!)

Any advice is welcome.

Mark

[grinch4om]

use what you have and press on with the job...

[James McClure]

33 years with Chevy trucks as a dealer mechanicDO NOT USE THE ROLLER BEARING TYPE EVER!!!! IF IT FAILS YOU WILL DESTROY THE TRANNY INPUT SHAFT!!! USE THE SLEVE TYPE AND SOME WHEEL BEARING GREASE AND IT WILL LAST FOREVER.

[LONGHAIR]

I'm with James on this one too. Stick with the bronze bushing style, but don't hit it directly. Use some kind of solid object between the bushing and the hammer.

[RuralRoute C-30]

Thanks A Lot! Your advice is well taken.

Just finished chiseling the old/new one out. You'd have thought it had been there forever. With cautious care the bronze bushing is going back in following this brief break.

For what its worth: That needle bearing was prescribed by NAPA and is going back Monday. Nearly 4x's the cost of the bronze from Autozone. (it didn't seem the right choice over the bronze bushing style, but I did not know)

Seriously appreciate the advice and experience here.

"gettin' it done!"

Mark

[Redcap]

Definitely stick with the bushing type.

[cableguy0]

I agree the needle bearing is nothing more than another problem waiting to happen. It has no source of lubrication other than the grease that will get pushed out in the first few miles. The brash bushing is more than capable of doing the job.

[USSkoval]

I agree, the solid bushing is a much better choice. And it's easier to change than the roller type.

[GRX]

Friction or anti friction bearing. Easy choice.....anti friction ball bearing.

http://www.camaros.org/bellhousings.shtml

Related Business: Replacing the Pilot Bushing with a Pilot Bearing
Chevrolet installed a solid bronze pilot bushing from the factory when these cars were new. Our experience indicates this bronze pilot bushing allowed for misalignment between the engine block and bellhousing. The bushings are very soft and wear easily and the transmission will still function under normal conditions. This was adequate for easy street driving, but in time, with wear from misalignment, the input shaft of your transmission will be wobbling around within a worn pilot bushing.

It is strongly recommended that anyone who is restoring a manual shift Camaro install a needle bearing pilot bearing at the same time that they perform the bellhousing dowel pin alignment. This bearing is available from Chevrolet under part number 14061685. Cost is about $18.00. Installing this pilot bearing, together with the mandatory proper bellhousing alignment, will add tremendous integrity, balance and smoothness to your driveline. Shown below are the stock GM pilot bushing (left) and the GM replacement needle bearing pilot bearing (right).

Pilot Bushing versus Pilot Bearing Pilot Bushing vs. Needle Bearing



For serious racers or Camaro hot rodders, Jerico Racing Products has a ultra heavy duty pilot roller bearing. This design inserts into the larger end of the crankshaft moving it deeper into the pilot of the input shaft for added strength, as shown below.

[cableguy0]

Its fine and great when the bearing is first installed and has plenty of grease. It wont take long for that bearing to throw its grease out. Rollers without grease wont roll for long.

[bama63]

i have to agree with the majority when the roller brg first came out 20 or so years ago i grabbed one from the chevy dealer and installed one in my sportsman car and three races later had to replace the input shaft in the muncie and man was it chewed up went back to the bushing and replaced every thirty races

[Redcap]

Originally Posted by GRX

Friction or anti friction bearing. Easy choice.....anti friction ball bearing.

That $18 bearing will cost you considerably more when, not if, it has a catastrophic failure. Also, be ready to eat the cost of a new input shaft.

The bushing has a hell of a lot less to go wrong.

[RuralRoute C-30]

Just an additional update on this topic for anyone as myself who may find it useful reference.

Came up with this bearing driver design to drive the pilot bearing in yesterday. Simple but effective and it worked!




More assembly on this project done yesterday and today in between work and life's chores. Will add some progress to the original new clutch thread. Yet it all starts at the pilot bearing.

Turning one bolt at a time...

Mark

[Heater63]

I agree with Bronze BUSHING!

I just removed Brand new Summit roller bearing, apparently there was a little too much "interference" fit, and it distorted when installed. It would not accept more than a few mm of the input shaft before hanging up. Wasted 6 hours and $20

[jeffspower]

The bushing will outlast the clutch. If you find one that didn't, another problem such as clutch/ flywheel unbalance caused it to wear. The bushing is made from Oilite, a porus bronze alloy. It holds oil like a sponge. Greasing it with heavy grease keeps it from "self lubricating" as it blocks the pores making it wear out faster. Grease can also cause friction in cold weather, making the transmission harder to shift (especially unsynchronized gears) and a squaling sound at high idle with the clutch depressed.

The only roller pilot bearings worth a darn are typically found in large trucks/ industrial equipment. They have an inner race so the rollers or ball bearings do not contact the input shaft.

[Lonnies Performance]

Just dealt with the grief of pulling the trans because of roller bearing failure... never again. Put a bushing in & be done. Atleast the input shaft did not get destroyed when the rollers flew apart... it just got hard to shift.