need some ac ?'s answered

[justtime520]

So iam looking at buying a 72 chevy c20. it is ac cab but the guy who is selling it says that has a leak and has not been converted to 134. so whats the process in replacing the hoses and converting it over. how much doe will i be looking at. I gonna test drive it tomorrow and i will get some pics up.

[69sixpackbee]

Fix the leak and stick with R12. Much easier and cheaper in the long run.

[justtime520]

so the r12 is cheaper. so about about the leaks how to check for them.

[MVHandy]

I will be doing my AC in the spring and have to leak check it, hope it is tight.

When the US signed the Kyoto accords one of the issues was use of Chloro-Fluorocarbon refrigerants so R 12 was phased out in the early 90's and is no longer manufactured.

Anyway, I took my truck in for inspection and talked to the guy there about converting and he said don't bother. There is a substitute called Freeze 12 that is compatible with R12 and R134 and available on e-bay or by internet. I also saw another refrigerant manufactured for R-12 systems at the swap meet in Englishtown last week.

[69sixpackbee]

Freeze12 is s**t!
R12 is still available and any more for about the same cost as R134 which, BTW, is just as harmful as HFC's...it took the feds THIS long to figure it out
Back to the question at hand. Get a vacuum pump, manifold gauge set and HFC-CFC leak detector. All of these can be had at even Harbor Fruit tools. You need these three items before you can begin to diagnose any problems.

Bud

[cparman]

I have done all of the above. I do think that you can still buy R-12 . I have a few customer that have bought it on EBAY. 30 LB cylinders. A life time supply for one vehicle.

I have a 63 Caddy that had R-12 in it. Long story, but evacuated it and undercharged it 20 %. Cold as ice!

I charged a 67 Chevelle today with freeze-12. Cold as well.

Sometimes we will use Freeze12 to charge a system that is know to have a leak. Use a flourescent dye, and ask customer to come back when it looses its cool. Look for the dye trail and repair. recharge with R134, with good results.

IMO, R-12 STILL gets colder that all of the above!

What is the 2nd largest illegal substance imported from Mexico? - - - - - R-12

[justtime520]

ok got some pics this guy is selling for $2200 1972 c20 350/350 ac

[justtime520]

here are some pics for my visual friends. oh i couldnt get inside cause i havent met him yet today to drive it.

[justtime520]

some more

[justtime520]

threw in some pics of my 71, still looks good

[MVHandy]

Getting R12 is now a major problem for do-it-yourselfers because federal law prohibits the sale of R12 and R134 automotive refrigerants to "noncertified" individuals (to become certified, you must pass a written test approved by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) -- something which all professional A/C technicians must do before they can legally work on your vehicle). This rule has been in effect since November 1992.

The law was passed to discourage people from recharging leaky A/C systems. R12 refrigerant, which is used in all vehicles built prior to 1993, is an ozone-depleting chemical. So its sale and use is strictly regulated by the EPA. What's more, production of R12 ends December 31, 1995. After that date, the only R12 that will be available will be that which has already been stockpiled or can be recovered and recycled from existing A/C systems.

Until late 1994, anyone could still buy refrigerant in large bulk containers. Because of the high cost of such containers, the EPA thought few do-it-yourselfers would buy refrigerant in bulk. But even that loophole has now been plugged. So unless you're a certified professional technician, you can't buy automotive refrigerant period.

This law does not, however, make it illegal to own or use R12 refrigerant. But it does make it very difficult for the average person to obtain it.

[justtime520]

so basically play it safe and have a professional do it

[69sixpackbee]

is an ozone-depleting chemical

So is R134a..just not to the extent as "Freon" 609 cert is what you need for buying less than 20# from any establishment NAPA still sells it as does O'reilly to name a couple. I buy up what I can. If you are not comfy doing it yourself then have an "expert" **cough, cough** do it for you. Don't let them hi-ball you on the cost of refrigerant either because pound for pound the 134a is just about the same. You *can* buy it on Ebay if you fax the seller your intention to resell the product. It isn't THAT hard to get. *IF* you went with 134a you will have to change out your condenser to a parallel flow style or at least a piccolo of the same size MINIMUM. You will need to COMPLETELY flush all of the mineral oil from the system...each component!... and replace with PAG because of the incompatibility. Some folks like to drop in Freeze12 because of the so called "compatibility" but it is not that good..period. The POA needs to be recalibrated (via the adjustment screw in the inlet) to a lower pressure because of the difference in gasses. Generally 3-4PSI (1/8-1/4 turn) is sufficient. You need a new rec/drier. The old A6 pump will more than likely need to be replaced. Hoses will be okay unless they are rotten anyway. All this talk of "barrier this and barrier that" is hogwash. The charge you put back in is "generally" 80% of the original amount but I charge by pressure and superheat reading which equates to about 90% thereabouts in these trucks. DONT go with one of those stupid "POA eliminators" either. These systems were designed to run continuously. The POA did all the work. A6 pumps don't like to be cycled on and off. There are new versions of A6-like compressors (Pro6TEN Compressor) that will bolt up to your existing hoses and hardware. The old A6's were notorious for front seal leakage but they are still a helluva pump! Don't forget to check your vacuum cans and the cowl flapper. Might be wise to pull the evap/heater core and clean the chit that has gathered in there over the years. In either case there is considerable work involved to get the system up to snuff. This is just this author's opinion but, if it were me I would get the original system working and stay away from those aftermarket systems. You will be WAAAYYY ahead in the long run and you will be surprized an OEM system works!

Do the math and the choice is pretty clear..

My $.02

Bud

[justtime520]

couple pics of inside

[ChevLoRay]

FWIW, I had a '91 Celica and used Freeze-12 to recharge it. Got it at my local NAPA. It worked well for me and I would use it again, if I had to have Freon as such.

No arguments with those who are die-hard R-12 afficianados.

My nephew sells and services Freon recovery systems, and told me last weekend that there are new types of refrigerants that are being introduced.

[justtime520]

emailed a service shop out here and this was the reply.

Hi there, We do service R-12 systems if its just a top off or refill of a small system. The issue is with larger systems like your truck. It holds 200.00 worth the r-12. Its no longer cost effective or wise to use r-12. With some upgrades we can build a really good-cold system on the 68-72 Chev trucks. Look at our website for some examples of what we do. If you would like to come down to the shop I will spend some time going over your options. If you want to save labor and do some of it yourself thats fine as well. Just give me a call so I have time to spend with you. We are going to slow down soon and that the perfect time to do the classic vehicles.

[69 1/2 Sixpack Bee]

Originally Posted by justtime520

emailed a service shop out here and this was the reply.

Hi there, We do service R-12 systems if its just a top off or refill of a small system. The issue is with larger systems like your truck. It holds 200.00 worth the r-12. Its no longer cost effective or wise to use r-12. With some upgrades we can build a really good-cold system on the 68-72 Chev trucks. Look at our website for some examples of what we do. If you would like to come down to the shop I will spend some time going over your options. If you want to save labor and do some of it yourself thats fine as well. Just give me a call so I have time to spend with you. We are going to slow down soon and that the perfect time to do the classic vehicles.

Get another quote!

If you are near Phoenix check out ackits.com

[justtime520]

yeah i thought so. i still need the leak fixed so would it cost 200 to replace the r12

[69 1/2 Sixpack Bee]

Originally Posted by justtime520

yeah i thought so. i still need the leak fixed so would it cost 200 to replace the r12

If they are charging you $60.00 bucks a pound!

[justtime520]

yeah the dude said 40 bucks a pound

[69 1/2 Sixpack Bee]

Your system holds 3 1/2# not 5! That is what they said for the R12 only. Then comes the diagnosis and shop time charge. Then the environmental impact fee. Then comes the disposal fee. Then comes........you get the picture.
Get some more quotes. If this guy is wiling to work with you at least that is good. They are saying there are alternatives..what are they? It's a matter of time before the 134a goes away too.

Crotch sniffing bureauocrats hard at work parting you and your money.

[justtime520]

true thanks sixpack bee. i will keep looking so i dont get date waifed