Am I being taken for a ride?

[Southern Buckeye]

Greetings: bought a 69 shorty at the Mecum auction in Fla. in January. Has a 400 SB and a 400 thm tranny. It has a few problems that I asked a local shop to comb through to the tune of just of $1700. One of those probs was the rear pinion was leaking. They put a in a new seal and well, it was leaking when I got it home. It appeared like shaft had been cleaned off and area worked on. Now they're telling me that they have to open the tail housing and replace a bushing. Estimate is for another 1 to 1 1/2 hrs. of labor plus parts. Does this sound right? I am fair-minded but just don't want to be taken advantage of. I'm kind of handy mechanically, but my days climbing under a truck for hours at a time are long gone!! Thank-you in advance for your advice/opinions.

[CharlesUFarley]

Hopefully your invoice for the repairs breaks down how much time and what parts were supplied for each issue they worked on.

If not, you're leaving yourself open for some problems.

If they do show each line item, what was done about the pinion seal the first time and how much did you pay for the repair...or lack thereof?

[brianthelion02]

If im not mistaken,you just cant replace the pinion seal,you need to replace the crush sleeve as well which is not that easy of a job, IIRC!

[bobs409]

You can carefully replace the seal by marking & counting the turns of the pinion nut when you remove it. Then replace seal and install the nut the exact same amount. I had my car on a lift and used a big pipe on a breaker bar to slowly turn the nut off. (they are tight!)

I've done one so far using that method and had no problems.

What in the world did they do for $1,700 dollars??? Hopefully alot more than replacing this seal.

[hugger6933]

There is a tailshaft bushing that sometimes needs replacment but it is normally cause of troubles up front of the driveshaft ,like tailshaft seal and u-joint wear. Sometimes you can replace the tailsahaft seal and if it starts leaking soon that is your culprit. I don't see how they could relate a pinion seal leak to the tailshaft bushing. What I can see is that you may have a groove worn onto the pinion itself causing the new seal to leak by the groove worn into the part. Now how much other work was done to warrant a bill of that magnitude?

[77chris03]

Originally Posted by bobs409

You can carefully replace the seal by marking & counting the turns of the pinion nut when you remove it. Then replace seal and install the nut the exact same amount. I had my car on a lift and used a big pipe on a breaker bar to slowly turn the nut off. (they are tight!)

I've done one so far using that method and had no problems.

What in the world did they do for $1,700 dollars??? Hopefully alot more than replacing this seal.

1700 bucks? are you joking? thats rape....i rebuilt my entire rear end on my 2003 z71 with a new locker diff. and bearings from the dealership for less than that...and if you wanna get technical...i also replaced the driveshaft with one made at napa...drive shaft was 330 and the diff was 900. all bearings and seals were roughly 200 bucks.. thats less than 1500 bucks....

i redid the rearend in my 68 for under 500 will all new seals and brake components..!!!

that seal is only a few bucks.......

[77chris03]

and if you have to pull the diff...not that difficult... remove driveshaft, remove pinion nut(count turns), break the wheels loose, jack it up, take the drums off, remove cover and drain oil, loosen kingpin(i call it), pull center pin, push each axle in and remove retainer, slide each axle out not destroying seal on axle, remove 4 bolts holding diff in, keep track of shims per side, pull diff straight out, remove pinion, remove bushing and bearings(replace if needed, can be done with a slide hammer to remove race) reassemble in reverse order....

doing this by yourself you can do it in roughly 4 hours in a driveway with a jack and stands....

[special-K]

They should have checked that bushing for wear. First of all,I can only speculate,but any good shop would look for the cause of the bad seal...excess wear. It's one thing if a seal is bad from being dry or age. But,if it is rounded out it's obviously from a worn bushing. I believe that would have been obvious if the seal leaked by the time you got home. I don't call myself a mechanic but after servicing my own vehicles all my life I have enough sense to check for wear when servicing a moving part. I also feel I'd be a fool to only fix the effect and not the cause. The primary cause here was low and/or contaminated lubricant that caused the bushing to wear that caused the seal to go. To any mechanic that should be obvious. I would inspect the carrier bearings as well as the ring & pinion. For that much money I'd think you would have gotten a "complete" rear job,not a quicky.

[lyrikz]

Originally Posted by 77chris03

and if you have to pull the diff...not that difficult... remove driveshaft, remove pinion nut(count turns), break the wheels loose, jack it up, take the drums off, remove cover and drain oil, loosen kingpin(i call it), pull center pin, push each axle in and remove retainer, slide each axle out not destroying seal on axle, remove 4 bolts holding diff in, keep track of shims per side, pull diff straight out, remove pinion, remove bushing and bearings(replace if needed, can be done with a slide hammer to remove race) reassemble in reverse order....

doing this by yourself you can do it in roughly 4 hours in a driveway with a jack and stands....

Calm down super tech. We know you can rebuild a whole car and no one should get charged any amount of money.
Telling someone they can do a job like that how you mentioned in 4 hours is ridiculous. There are a ton of other things you need to check. Not just throwing it back in. Also, you say it should take 4 hours??? THe shop only wants 1.5 hours.

The 1700 dollars was probably for a whole lot of different work. The seal was not that.

OP, i run a shop here and we have ran into something similar. Alot of times we do pinion seals and there is no issues. Sometimes there is issues just like you have. They did make the mistake of not test driving your vehicle so you didnt have to bring it back. They should of checked the bushing for wear a bit better.
What i do in a situation like that is work with the customer. IF the shop wants 1.5 more hours, ask if he can help you out. Just mention you spent a lot and really dont have much more cash. Can you do half of that for me??

ANY shop would be willing to work with you. If you ever want to check a labor guide, send me a pm and i will get you times on what certain things take so you can get a feel if they are a bit high or right on.

[68gmsee]

Originally Posted by lyrikz

.....What i do in a situation like that is work with the customer. IF the shop wants 1.5 more hours, ask if he can help you out. Just mention you spent a lot and really dont have much more cash. Can you do half of that for me??

ANY shop would be willing to work with you. If you ever want to check a labor guide, send me a pm and i will get you times on what certain things take so you can get a feel if they are a bit high or right on.

Thanks for the info. Your offer to check the labor guide is a good but please, no need for name calling. We all know that there are a lot of respectable repair shops out there but there are also unscrupulous ones that take advantage of less knowledgeable owners. I started working on my own vehicles 50 years ago after getting shafted more than once.

[lyrikz]

Originally Posted by 68gmsee

Thanks for the info. Your offer to check the labor guide is a good but please, no need for name calling. We all know that there are a lot of respectable repair shops out there but there are also unscrupulous ones that take advantage of less knowledgeable owners. I started working on my own vehicles 50 years ago after getting shafted more than once.

I wasnt calling names. Im serious. He is a super tech if he can do that. I am looking to hire another tech with that kind of skill set. ahhaa. I should of put an LOL behind it. He just was taking a job that takes professionals to do right a few hours and is recommending you do it in 4 hours without checking anything.. I just didnt agree with that.

Back to the original thread. Just talk to them, they will help you out.

[77chris03]

Originally Posted by lyrikz

I wasnt calling names. Im serious. He is a super tech if he can do that. I am looking to hire another tech with that kind of skill set. ahhaa. I should of put an LOL behind it. He just was taking a job that takes professionals to do right a few hours and is recommending you do it in 4 hours without checking anything.. I just didnt agree with that.

Back to the original thread. Just talk to them, they will help you out.

believe me no offense taken....super tech....lol i like it... i was referring to a whole swap on a diff and bearings. if you have all the right tools, supplies, documentation, specs, measurements, etc. it can be done. when i did mine in my 03 z71, i had everything to do the job. the hardest part for me was getting under the truck. everything was mic'd, greased, torqued, etc to proper specs.

[lyrikz]

Originally Posted by 77chris03

believe me no offense taken....super tech....lol i like it... i was referring to a whole swap on a diff and bearings. if you have all the right tools, supplies, documentation, specs, measurements, etc. it can be done. when i did mine in my 03 z71, i had everything to do the job. the hardest part for me was getting under the truck. everything was mic'd, greased, torqued, etc to proper specs.

I used to have a guy like you. Efficient, and fast. Its hard to find good techs nowadays.

[77chris03]

Originally Posted by lyrikz

I used to have a guy like you. Efficient, and fast. Its hard to find good techs nowadays.

if i was in monroe washington, id take ya up on the offer... im the same way now where i work, fast and efficient. i worked for a custom shop where we did lifts, engine and exhaust upgrades and my fav was jeep and chevy truck suspension lifts...id do what the job calls for in half the time and make the company big bucks...if you have the knowledge and proper tools and supplies you can do anything...

Sorry for hijacking ur thread...

[463]

But is the vent line clear and letting the rearend breath?
If the pinion bearings are on the way out you will hear the howl when driving.

[Southern Buckeye]

Wow. Thanks for all the varied and insighttful replies. First off- I had a myriad of other tasks performed on the truck for the $1700 of which I briefly mentioned. They were listed job by job on a single line with the time and parts cost listed separately. In total the $1700 broke down to 16.7 hrs. labor. $320 for parts. The pinion was charged only one hour labor and was called "output shaft seal" which was $15.22.

I took the truck back to them and this time they charged me 1.5 hours and replaced "Exterior housing bushing". The shop owner did show me the bushing and how it was scarred on the interior. Again, I drove truck home and just checked it to see if leak was fixed. All I can say is - maybe??... there was a drop or two of tranny fluid hanging of the rim just below the pinion. Could that be some residual? Can't say for sure. Will have to continue driving and see but if it is still leaking I will not be very happy to say the least and will probably ask for a partial refund. I am hopeful that problem is solved. Will keep you all posted. Thanks again for the opinions and good advice.

Southern Buckeye

[special-K]

They should have put a new seal in. If they didn't it will leak. Just that drive home with the worn bushing was enough to trash the new seal they charged you to install. That's why it leaked. They fixed the symptom not the cause. I would not have asked them to work with me because I was short on money. I would ask them to credit the cost of replacing the seal toward doing it the second time as part of replacing the bushing. They got double labor for their oversight. If you want to charge professional rates,you should do professional work.

[77chris03]

16.7 hours? did that include the time for the write up, diagnostics, the shops lunch break and buying the lunch for the whole shop?lol

[68gmsee]

All approximage figures:

$1700.00 - 10% sales tax = $1530.00
$1530.00 - $320 for parts = $1210.00
$1210.00 ÷ 16.7 hrs. = $72 an hour labor

I guess labor is about right depending on where you live. Over here it averages about $50-$60 and about $80 +/- for the local chevy dealer.

By the way, welcome to the site. If you can learn to work on these trucks you will save yourself a lot of money. Ask on this site before you take it in for help or to give an idea what the work entails. It's probably too late once the bill has been paid without a lot of hassle.

[Southern Buckeye]

[QUOTE=

By the way, welcome to the site. If you can learn to work on these trucks you will save yourself a lot of money. Ask on this site before you take it in for help or to give an idea what the work entails. It's probably too late once the bill has been paid without a lot of hassle.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the welcome. You know what? THAT is EXACTLY what I am going to do! Learn to work on these myself. I grew up on a dairy farm and we always fixed our tractors ourselves. I also love to work on motorcycles and have had street license since age 16...am 46 now. I am never going back to that shop, other than to collect a refund for the failed second attempt. Any work that needs done- I'm going to do. First on the list is front drum to disc conversion.

I am very glad to have found this site. If there is anyone out there from the Charleston, SC area- who wouldn't mind my bending their ear from time to time, PM me. Thanks again to those who responded- I really liked the guy who said "if you want to charge professional rates-do professional work" Couldn't agree more.