Help me build a Raptor killer

[leftybass209]

If you are still in the research phase you are a long way off from finding out about pinion angles, no offense. You need to know actual suspension height, and have engine and transmission installed with mounts before you can get an idea of pinion angle. If I were you, I'd drop the "raptor killer" idea and go with a nice reliable truck. Once you insert that phrase you put a lot of pressure on your build and we gear our answers according to what is better than a raptor-not equal. The word killer suggests a vehicle far superior in every way in my mind.

[catch2otwo]

Sounds like your not trying to build a raptor killer. Raptor killer would imply long travel, high speed off road shenanigans.

Sounds like your looking to build a nice lifted truck with nice fit and finish and plush ride. I'd shoot over to pirate 4x4.

[mmiddle]

Ok, this clears things up a little.... Your OP lead me (at least) in thinking you where wanting a desert runner/stadium truck that you planned to beat the crap out of.

I can't speak to the 4x4 part as that is not my interest or forte, but I do know engines. IMHO: there are better ways to make 500hp than the 427Rat, but it certainly is a great way to do it. I think a big block is a lot of extra weight on the front axle, but it is your truck and I respect that.

Good luck and enjoy pre-retirement planning.

[americanmusc1e]

After coming to understand your situation some more I think the best thing that you can do is first find the shop that is going to build the truck and seek the opinion of a professional.

You completely specing out a vehicle based on the opinion of different people on the internet is a bad idea. You want this to be new vehicle quality and imo the entire key to a perfectly functioning and reliable vehicle is that the sum of the parts add up to much greater than their own merit. In other words, the best parts in the world, if mismatched will be no better than properly matched mediocre parts. This one internet thread cannot supply you with near enough information to make a good decision, and taking ideas from totally different people and mixing them together will also end in failure. As a novice you would need to spend a couple months researching this to understand it enough to get a good idea of what you need.

A better idea would be as follows: Ask around on here for recommendations on good local shops. Pick a couple of them and call them with your plans and see what they say. Then post the results back here and we can help you sort through them.

and to answer your questions.

semi-float axles are used more in half-ton applications. they are relatively weaker than full float, can be harder to replace parts on quickly, but they are lighter. Full float have the additional advantage of putting no weight on the axle shaft itself. In the end the choice comes down to the tire size and intended use.

You can make a 10bolt strong enough for this application. the weak link on the 10b front diffs is the axle joints and axle shafts themselves. there are aftermarket HD replacements, but they cost as much as replacing the axle with a D60.

as far as 14bff vs D60 rear. It really doesn't matter. the 14bolt is cheaper and easier to find, but a D60, D70, F0rd 9" or Eaton H052 would also work just fine.

[JimJones]

So to make a 10bolt strong enough it would cost as much as a Dana 60? Thus the only advantage of the 10 bolt would be weight savings? If so how much weight difference is there between a 10bolt and a Dana 60? I'm assuming just based on size alone it will be more than 100 lbs? Also do they make 8 lug axel shafts for the 10 bolt?

[Vintage Windmills]

You may want to just find a 01+ up 2500hd with a bad body and swap a body on it. You could go dmax/ally or built 6.0/4l80e and get the superior handling, ride, and reliability, economy, but with the old truck appearance. Would probably be cheapest in the long run and easier to get parts for.

[Half-Fast]

This would be a good place to get ideas for a "Raptor killer".
http://camburg.com/home/

[62k10&84k20burb]

how about an sm465?

[JimJones]

Ok I just looked up the weight of the GM crate 427 and it's listed at 520 lbs. The next closest in terms of hp small block competitor is the ZZ383 which weighs in at 397 lbs.

Will 123lbs on the front end make a huge difference in ride and handling? And how much better gas mileage would you get with the 383 vs. the 427?

[skorpioskorpio]

Jim,

I know you are thinking 4x4, but with an open mind, read this thread, it may be an easy route to more of what you want:

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=282398

You really need a modern independent front suspension to make it handle like anything other than old truck, and that alone is going to cost you at least half of your budget. If in the end what you want is a truck that go barreling down unimproved roads and get sideways in the turns a prerunner setup may be your ticket.

[JimJones]

Do any of you guys have any experience with any of the 4 suspension shops mentioned in this thread?
http://www.mcneilracinginc.com/
http://www.dixonbrosracing.com/
http://camburg.com/home
http://offroaddesign.com/

My main question would be do these guys just do suspension or do they also do complete builds? And out of these 4 shops which one is best to deal with?

[jondancer]

Originally Posted by Vintage Windmills

You may want to just find a 01+ up 2500hd with a bad body and swap a body on it. You could go dmax/ally or built 6.0/4l80e and get the superior handling, ride, and reliability, economy, but with the old truck appearance. Would probably be cheapest in the long run and easier to get parts for.

Has this ever been done?

[Vintage Windmills]

Originally Posted by jondancer

Has this ever been done?

theres a guy on this forum doing it on a Tahoe or suburban chassis and I've seen a 67-72 chevy body on a ram cummins chassis also. I'm tempted to do with a longhorn sometime, since it has the same wheelbase as a newer chevy regular cab lwb.

[JimJones]

Anybody got any recommendations for shops that specialize in complete frame off restorations of classic 4x4's?

[Vintage Windmills]

Originally Posted by JimJones

Anybody got any recommendations for shops that specialize in complete frame off restorations of classic 4x4's?

PM deadheadNM here, he just recently had his K20 done in NM and it turned out great!

[grancuda]

GV only works in 2wd.
Gm doesn't make 10 bolt front axles.
LS platforms are not "the" set-up
LS motors are the latest cheap salvage/decent hp motor.
The LS is not more reliable than a SBC or BBC, period.
700R4 can be built to handle 500+ hp
A Raptor style fender is required for the suspension travel vs rediculously tall body height.

Not sure why in the past 5 years or so all the internet jockeys on forums preach that carb motors/non-LS motors are unreliable. Not sure where this is coming from.

The biggest challenge is the suspension which for what your expectations are, you are going to have to get it engineered/designed by a offload shop like in Arizona/southern California. Lots of trophy truck/buggy shops but you will pay dearly for it to work as well as a Raptor.

I have both a C10 SWB (2wd) & a 2010 Raptor w/6.2L. I wouldn't want to try and make an old truck handle like the Raptor, just too much cash for the design effort associated its king a truck be balanced & handle well.

You could run it like an old 70s baja truck would have been with really good shocks & longer travel good springs but not what a Raptor is capable of.

[JimJones]

Originally Posted by Vintage Windmills

PM deadheadNM here, he just recently had his K20 done in NM and it turned out great!

before i read thru 11 pages. was this his build thread?
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=528308

[grancuda]

Originally Posted by JimJones

before i read thru 11 pages. was this his build thread?
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=528308

That truck doesn't have 1/2 the travel a Raptor has.

[Vintage Windmills]

Correct, that is his build thread.

Originally Posted by grancuda

That truck doesn't have 1/2 the travel a Raptor has.

See below

Originally Posted by JimJones

Let me clarify a little bit.
When I say Raptor killer I don’t have intensions to do to this truck some of the crazy stuff you see people doing with their Raptors on YouTube. The completed truck will mostly be a street truck with some trail use. No jumping, driving thru mud bogs that are as deep as the top of the doors or anything crazy like that.

But I really want the suspension capabilities of something better than a leaf sprung solid front axle. There has to be some kind of suspension upgrades out there for these trucks that don’t require hacking up the body?

You can get a decent ride and handling out of the solid front axle, if you put in a late 70's+ 4x4 variable ratio quick turn steering box and all new ball joints and tie rod ends, that will go a long way. I have driven a 71 K20 set up that way and it was nice. To ditch the leafs you could also bag and 4 link the front axle like Ryanroo is doing.

I suppose you could swap in a newer chevy IFS without any sheetmetal mods but it would probably be harder than the body swap Idea I mentioned.

[JimJones]

Originally Posted by Vintage Windmills

Correct, that is his build thread.



See below



You can get a decent ride and handling out of the solid front axle, if you put in a late 70's+ 4x4 variable ratio quick turn steering box and all new ball joints and tie rod ends, that will go a long way. I have driven a 71 K20 set up that way and it was nice. To ditch the leafs you could also bag and 4 link the front axle like Ryanroo is doing.

I suppose you could swap in a newer chevy IFS without any sheetmetal mods but it would probably be harder than the body swap Idea I mentioned.

Funny you mention quick ratio steering that was gonna be one of my next questions. I don’t know if any of you guys have seen Stacy David's project copperhead build.
Here's a link to the full version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq68pf-EGC8

It's kind of long but it’s a cool build. There are some shorter clips of this build in the related videos section. Anyways in one of the vids he mentions that "the quick ratio steering" really makes a huge difference but he did not elaborate much at least not that I can remember. I was planning on watching again to see if I could get more info about it.

Anyways the reason I'm curious about the steering is I remember back in the day on all my old vehicles that had power steering they were always 1 finger power steering. Not really what I would call a modern high performance feel.

[JimJones]

Originally Posted by Vintage Windmills

PM deadheadNM here, he just recently had his K20 done in NM and it turned out great!

Hey thanks for letting me know about DeadheadNM. I just read his build thread and I loved every minute of it.

I want to do what he did except I want my build to lean a little more to the performance side instead of the concorus/NOS side. However I still want the body and cab to be as factory original as possible.

[jdw]

Buy a brand new frame and chassis with a nice clean ls motor, swap the body onto it. 50k buys a lot. With a warranty.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by JimJones

I want to build a C10 that is the classic equitant of a modern day Ford Raptor. Something that keeps most of the style and mechanical components of old but has modern day capabilities. Something that can unquestionably hold its own in any situation but also be fun and reliable to drive. And most importantly something that doesn't break down every other week.

Check out this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF2lg06Xfh0


I love this truck. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it since I first saw this vid last summer. I want my finished truck to look very similar to this. But I want to upgrade some of the mechanical components to make it more fun to drive. I mean what's the point of spending 50k fixing up an old truck when at the end of the day it drives and handles like a 50 year old truck.

I need your guy's advice on what parts you would use to set this up. For me engine and tranny choice is easy. I'm planning on running a GM crate 427 and a 700r4 tranny what I need the most help with is axels and transfer cases including the parts that go inside of them like axel shafts, differentials, lockers and all the little parts that go inside of them like bearings and what not.
What axels front and rear would you choose if you were planning on 500hp and 33-35" tires? And what parts would you stuff inside of them?

Same thing with the suspension and this is the is the most important part of making a 50 year old truck be able to hold its own with a Raptor or modern day 4x4. What kind of suspension set up will be able to do what I want? Just putting new shocks and bushings on a 50 year old C10 is not going to give me the ride and handling I'm after. What kind of suspension mods are out there for 4x4 C10's?
For years I was into early Broncos and there is a plethora of aftermarket companies out there that make all kinds of suspension mods for them are there any companies out there that do the same for C10's?

Short list of stuff I want on the truck
4x4, Longbed, GM crate 427, 700r4, 4 wheel disc brakes, Front and rear axles with lockers that can withstand 500hp & 33" - 35" tire smoking burnouts and fishtails without snapping. And basically be able to have a finished truck that will last 100k mi without any major repair bills. I'm not going to thru the trouble and hassle of having this thing built to have to deal with going to the shop ever week to have something worked on. I want everything to be as bullet proof as possible.
So what parts and components would you guys go with? I appreciate any suggestions you guys have

I dunno. I would enjoy driving that truck in the video,just as it is,till the day I die. Heck,I've been doing just that for 40 years. They are exactly what I like and "WHY" I like them. If I wanted something that drove like a Ford Raptor I'd buy a Ford Raptor.

[leftybass209]

[quote=grancuda;6330001]GV only works in 2wd.
Gm doesn't make 10 bolt front axles.
LS platforms are not "the" set-up
LS motors are the latest cheap salvage/decent hp motor.
The LS is not more reliable than a SBC or BBC, period.
700R4 can be built to handle 500+ hp
A Raptor style fender is required for the suspension travel vs rediculously tall body height.

Not sure why in the past 5 years or so all the internet jockeys on forums preach that carb motors/non-LS motors are unreliable. Not sure where this is coming from.

I have both a C10 SWB (2wd) & a 2010 Raptor w/6.2L.[/quote
It's bad taste you'd insult anyone on this board calling them an internet jockey.It doesn't matter if it's one post or 10,000 on here. You don't know anyone or their background. Insulting opinions drag this board down.

[JimJones]

Let me ask you guys this. Originally I was planning on trying to locate a 3/4 ton long bed truck that had leaf springs. But now I'm wondering if I might be better off to use a 1/2 long bed with rear coil springs. Would you get more suspension travel with the coil spring truck? And are there parts out there to beef up a rear coil spring suspension?