Thinking of Buying a 67 K20

[Bigdog454]

Hey Guys,

I'm new to this site and older Chevy Trucks, but I am a long time Chevy owner and have 5 Chevys now (2 - 68 Chevelles, 2 - 94 9C1 Caprices and a 95 9C1 Caprice).

I am thinking of buying a 1967 K20 Chevy. According to the original sales brochure that the owner has, the K20s came with 4.55 rear and 4.57 front ring and pinion and the K10s came with 3.73 gears. The owner claims the gears are 3.73. The axles all have 8 lugs.

Is there a way to tell that the truck was definitely a 3/4 ton by the VIN? It is CE247J130219.

I also had difficulty figuring out how to put the truck into 4WD. I had an old Blazer that had 5 positions to the transfer case for 2WD hi and lo, neutral and 4WD hi and lo. The 1967 K20 has four positions. According to the original sales brochure, 2WD hi is all the way forward, then one position back is 4WD hi, then neutral, then all the way towards the seat is 4WD lo. However on the truck, this pattern is backwards and it does not seem that 4WD lo exists as it seems to be 4WD hi.

Any comments or input is appreciated.

Thanks,

[breeh]

There are no 8 lug axles with factory 3:73 gears in the 67-72 generation of trucks. Also, a 67 should have closed knuckle front hubs.

There should be four positions for the transfer case: 4Hi, 2Hi, Neutral, and 4Lo. I can't remember offhand what the shift pattern is though. The transfer case should be a Rockwell.

As far as the VIN is concerned, it should start with a K and not a C. C indicates a 2wd.

[1969 GMC]

Welcome!

To add to what Breeh said, the 3/4 ton 4x4's of the 67-72 vintage could only be had with 4.10 or 4.56 gears from the factory. It is possible the p/o swapped in 3.73's (mine did). It is also possible that the p/o swapped axles from a newer truck. If the frontend has disk brakes and open knuckles, it was definitely swapped. The original dana 44 front axle should have drum brakes, and closed knuckles. It should also have Hub-Lok hubs (like in my avatar picture). The VIN# should start with a K if it is 4 wheel drive.
What engine are you running? '67 trucks had the 250 and 292 inline sixes, and 283 and 327 V8's, as options. You could also get the 305 or 351 V6, but in GMC only.

Your transfer case is a Rockwell T-221. You are correct, the shift pattern is

(dash) 2 Hi - Neutral - 4 Hi - [big throw] 4 Lo (seat).

You may not have the shifter moved back all the way. I have a hard time getting my Rockwell into 4 Hi, I always move it too far into neutral and have to move it back. When it is in 2 Hi, I noticed that my keychain hits the knob. When it is in 4 Hi, it touches my leg while driving. When it is in 4 Lo, it is almost all the way back to the seat. Also, sometimes it will not shift at all and I will have to move the truck a few feet to allow it to engage.
More on the Rockwell T-221, it is a cast iron gear drive (strong) like the NP205 that came later in production. Parts can be hard to find for it, but it is a durable case that is just as strong if not better than the NP205, for example has lower outputs to ease driveline angles. Low range of 1.94 to 1.

Good luck! If you have any more ?'s feel free to ask!

[breeh]

Much better explanation by 1969 GMC. The fact that your VIN is from a 2wd would make me suspicious of a body swap.

[Bigdog454]

Thank you very much for this information!

The lockouts are exactly as you show in the photo. It is a little difficult to tell when they are engaged though. I ended up reaching around the tire to spin the driveshaft/u-joint (behind the knuckle) to see if they were engaged or not.

One other thing, I've never seen a rear end like this one, with a quick glance from the back, it almost looks like an oversized Ford 9" (sorry to cuss here!). But a closer look shows that the cover can be unbolted, but the cover is a perfect 1/2 circle.

Another thing, the rear driveshaft is huge. I did not measure it, but it appears to be almost 5" diameter.

The VIN definitely starts with a "C" on the truck and title so this truck must have had a body swap as indicated.

Also, the 4WD shift pattern definitely has one postion that is forward of neutral and two definite postions between neutral to towards the seat. Any possible explaination? Also, it does not seem to have a "lo" gear. When in either the furtherst position forward or back, it feels like "hi". (In my old 74 Blazer, I could definitely feel the difference in 4WD lo).

What is the difference between an open and closed knuckle?

How can I tell what transfer case is in it?

Regarding the gearing, I did put a piece of tape on the rear driveshaft and noted the position of the tire and pushed the truck and the gear (at least the rear) seems to be a 4.10. I plan to go back and check it again and also check the front. I'm pretty sure they'll let me pull the covers (and replace the gearlube) if I need to be sure of the gears).

This truck is very, very clean, with the underside of the body cleaner than the frame (spotless). The frame has a little bit of rust, what would be expected from years of driving, but not in salt.

The engine is a transplanted 350.

I drove this truck and it drives very well. Very firm, solid.

Since it is now apparent this truck has at least a body swap, in excellent to mint condition, what might it be worth? They want $7000 for it.

Thanks again for your help and all comments welcome.

[Scrub]

Welcome to the board.

7,000 sounds on the high side to me. The lever pattern you are describing sounds like a np205 (You hope)

here is a site to ID the case.

http://www.chuckschevytruckpages.com/drivetrains.html

What you would like to have is a Dana 44 front, an NP 205 (NP is New Process) and a sm465 transmission. I don't know jack about rear ends past a corp 14.

Getting the right components means a lot. If I were you, I would look hard at the parts. Also a 67 has really funky power steering setup with a hydraulic cylinder and a control valve off the pitman arm (Or something like that) I just know they aren't great. Look at your steering. DO you have a camera? Post some pics. This thing mihgt have all the right stuff, or all the wrong stuff. get pics of:

Steering box
Front axle: King pins, Hubs
Tranny
T-case
Rear end

We can tell you what you have then

Good Luck

[1969 GMC]

we are here to help

the lockouts are a little strange, but they only seem to "click" into place when they are in Freewheel. When they are locked in, the dial can float perhaps a 1/2 turn either way. I thought maybe something was broken, but it is just the way they are designed.

the rearend is the eaton HO52 axle. it has a dropout third member like a Ford 9 inch, but you can also take the diff cover off. it wouldn't surprise me if it was 4.10 gearing, that seems to be the most common (and stock too, I believe). this rearend is massive and very very strong. there is the possibility that there is a factory installed detroit locker (no spin) in it, this is no longer made and is somewhat desireable.

Since your transfer case shift pattern is different than the Rockwell T-221, that probably means it has a NP205. I am not sure on the shift pattern for this, maybe someone else can help.
I am attaching a picture of my Rockwell transfer case, maybe this will help. The one feature I always use to identify the Rockwell is the little starburst shaped cover on the upper left.

As for the open vs. closed knuckle axle, if you said you reached behind the tire to spin the u joint, that pretty much means it is open knuckle, although I have never seen an open knuckle axled with Hub Loks. Closed knuckle looks like a big metal sphere that the wheel pivots on, and you cannot see the u joint. Open knuckles are stronger (larger u joints) and offer a better turning radius than closed knuckles.

hope this helps.

[Yukon Jack]

Here's a pic of the closed knuckle Dana 44



And a pic of the differential with the identification code circled.

[Bigdog454]

I don't have any photos of the drivetrain yet, but I should be able to get some by Monday. However I do have some general photos of the truck, how do I post them?

[Bigdog454]

One other thing, I checked the rearend and it is an open type. How difficult would it be to convert this to a posi (I know how to setup rearends with new ring and pinions)?

[JIMs70GMC]

Nothing availabe except used Lockers for the big'ol corprate rear end. Another thread talks about using a 14 bolt detroit and axle shafts.

[Bigdog454]

I was able to get another look at the truck today. Turns out the trans is a TH350, not a 400. The transfer case is stamped C99404. I also was able to verify the shift pattern. Starting at the dash it is 4L-N-2H-4H. Is it possible this was likely yanked out of K5 Blazer, and not what would typically come in a 3/4 ton?

[Bigdog454]

Front axle

[Bigdog454]

Transfer Case:

[Bigdog454]

Open Knuckle:

[Bigdog454]

Lockout:

[JIMs70GMC]

Yep you got a NP205 transfer case, and an open knuckle dana44 w/drums (only in 1970). Those are exactly what came in my 3/4 ton.

[Bigdog454]

Rearend:

[JIMs70GMC]

The rear is a "corperate" axle. Last year used 1972. Goes back into the early60s late 50s I believe. Notorious for leaking. Found in the Chevies, My GMC came w/ a Dana 60.

[JIMs70GMC]

I forgot, sounds like your old blazer had a NP203 transfer case which is a full time unit with an internal chain and differential. The low gear in the 203 and 205 are almost identical.
As far as the truck from the pics posted it looks solid. All of the parts are desireable. With the drums up front the least of them. 8 lug 15" rims will fit with no problems because of the drums. Everything is newer than 1967.

[Bigdog454]

Truck:

[JIMs70GMC]

From that angle everything looks straight. Nice looking truck!

[Scrub]

That IS a nice looking ride. I won't try to talk you out of buying it. I will tell you to make a lower offer.

Good luck and thanks for the good thread. Fun to have these kind of discussions.

[1969 GMC]

Yeah, that must be from something newer...I don't think automatics were offered until '69 in 4x4s. But it does look nice!

[Bigdog454]

If I were to get the truck, I would want to also buy an enclosed trailer and tow my 68 Chevelle to the dragstrip with it. However, I am not at all comfortable with the TH350 trans for this task as I believe I would blow it up in no time.

However, how would a TH400 be able to bolt up to the transfer case? Is the above transfer case really that strong, and if so, isn't the intput shaft (to mate up with the TH350 output) a bit on the small side?

Also, if you guys were to guess, what would you think the truck is really worth?

Thanks for all the help guys, all input welcome,