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#1 |
Rottenwood Garage Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 4,321
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1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
This Rottenwood garages new shop truck project. I have combed the site and internet and have decided to go with a 3-5 drop. Dropping a square body will be a new adventure for me as I have only done pre 73's. I have grown weary from looking at all the different kits and methods offered to do this drop. This truck will probably be a "flip" so I want to keep it on a budget but I don't want to cut corners either. I am thinking a rear axle flip and drop spindles in front.
What should I buy or do? Best kit for the money? Help please.
__________________
2004 Chevrolet Suburban C1500 2001 Chevrolet 2500HD Crew 6.0 1999 Harley Davidson Electra Glide 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Custom Camper "Dump Truck" 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Suburban "Big Green" 1969 Chevrolet C-50 Wedge Hauler "Leonidis" 1966 C-10 2x4 short fleet 327 4 speed "Race Truck" 1952 Plymouth Cranbrook "Rican" (my grandfathers) 1931 Ford Model A Coupe "Black Beauty" 1930 Ford Model A truck "Club Cab" 4x4 Rottenwood Garage and Speed Shop.....where everything must be racy! It's not just a hobby..It's a LIFESTYLE!!! Thanks for nothing Barrett-Jackson You cant fix stupid or teach accountability! Time wasters, looky Lous and tire kickers are everywhere! |
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#2 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,964
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
Bell Tech or Western Chassis for quality drop parts (quality/name-dropping helps in a flip scenario). Spindles & flip kit sounds about right. Easy enough to do & still be easily reversable should future owners want that route
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Alabaster Alabama
Posts: 13
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
I just done my sons 86 with a Belltech kit. Everything fit great with good directions. I have noticed from other post if you plan on running a 15x8 wheel they seem to rub the lower control arm. Maybe others could chime in on that as this is my first square body.
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1986 C10 sons truck 2005 Harley Davidson Electraglide mine 2014 Mustang GT the wifes |
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#4 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,964
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
Quote:
It is also more common to have interference issues when running 3" drop spindles vs 2.5" units.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#5 |
Frequent Flyer
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 2,258
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
My trucks dropped using all Western Chassis stuff & I am very pleased.
It's been lowered on the same parts for 10 years plus. |
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#6 |
Rottenwood Garage Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 4,321
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
What drop is it?
__________________
2004 Chevrolet Suburban C1500 2001 Chevrolet 2500HD Crew 6.0 1999 Harley Davidson Electra Glide 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Custom Camper "Dump Truck" 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Suburban "Big Green" 1969 Chevrolet C-50 Wedge Hauler "Leonidis" 1966 C-10 2x4 short fleet 327 4 speed "Race Truck" 1952 Plymouth Cranbrook "Rican" (my grandfathers) 1931 Ford Model A Coupe "Black Beauty" 1930 Ford Model A truck "Club Cab" 4x4 Rottenwood Garage and Speed Shop.....where everything must be racy! It's not just a hobby..It's a LIFESTYLE!!! Thanks for nothing Barrett-Jackson You cant fix stupid or teach accountability! Time wasters, looky Lous and tire kickers are everywhere! |
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#7 |
Frequent Flyer
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 2,258
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
Bought as a 5/7 kit from Western Chassis.
I'm maybe about 2 1/2 away from the front inner fender wells in the front. |
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#8 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Palmdale CA
Posts: 303
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
Quote:
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#9 |
Rottenwood Garage Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 4,321
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
After several weeks of research I finally did it. Once I mount up the new tires and wheels I will revisit the front stance a little with probably a 1" drop spring.
I decided to by-pass the drop spindle idea and spent $80 more and got the lower 3" drop tubular control arm that comes with ball joint and all new bushings in place. It saves lots of install time, there is no chance of any wheels rubbing and its actually cheaper in the long run if you have to end up changing out the ball joints like I normally do. In addition, it looks cool! I'm surprised no one recommended it!?! We then did a 5" rear axle flip. NO C-notch was/is necessary but you do have to cut off the bump stop and bracket and replace it with one provided.. We did not need shorter shocks for the front but had to get them for the rear. That saved an additional $70 - $100 dollars. From the before and after measurements we got 5" exactly in the rear and 2 3/4" in the front. All products were DJM and were purchased through Summit and at my front door in 14 hours. There were 4 or 5 of us hanging at Rottenwood Garage that morning and start to finish was 3 hours.
__________________
2004 Chevrolet Suburban C1500 2001 Chevrolet 2500HD Crew 6.0 1999 Harley Davidson Electra Glide 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Custom Camper "Dump Truck" 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Suburban "Big Green" 1969 Chevrolet C-50 Wedge Hauler "Leonidis" 1966 C-10 2x4 short fleet 327 4 speed "Race Truck" 1952 Plymouth Cranbrook "Rican" (my grandfathers) 1931 Ford Model A Coupe "Black Beauty" 1930 Ford Model A truck "Club Cab" 4x4 Rottenwood Garage and Speed Shop.....where everything must be racy! It's not just a hobby..It's a LIFESTYLE!!! Thanks for nothing Barrett-Jackson You cant fix stupid or teach accountability! Time wasters, looky Lous and tire kickers are everywhere! Last edited by 72freak; 11-02-2014 at 09:09 AM. |
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#10 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,964
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
Quote:
With stock arms, the a-arm pivot point is the lowest point & guys have problems there when they get too low w/the combination of parts.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#11 | |
Rottenwood Garage Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 4,321
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
Quote:
That was one of the questions the DJM guy asked was about tire and rim size. He did say that if you were running very thin tires and small wheels (cholo style low-rider) it may not be the way to go. That is not the case in my application as I am sticking with 15"- 17" rims and bigger tires. We did measure before and after and the bottom of the pocket is about 2" difference to the originals due to the difference in shape of the control arm. For all those considering this, I am running 275-60-15 tires on 15" rims and I have 7" of clearance under drop pockets. Currently the lowest part of my "scrub line" actually the exhaust and there are a few other places under there that are within 1" of that to the ground. I have several hotrods with parts hanging lower than 7" (oil pans being one of them). So yes, I agree with certain" lowering" applications this may not be the route to go but so far I don't see any issue with it. I will be the first to report when I do grab the pocket on something but I have a feeling if I hit something with the pocket @ 7" off the ground, I will tear something farther back off too.
__________________
2004 Chevrolet Suburban C1500 2001 Chevrolet 2500HD Crew 6.0 1999 Harley Davidson Electra Glide 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Custom Camper "Dump Truck" 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Suburban "Big Green" 1969 Chevrolet C-50 Wedge Hauler "Leonidis" 1966 C-10 2x4 short fleet 327 4 speed "Race Truck" 1952 Plymouth Cranbrook "Rican" (my grandfathers) 1931 Ford Model A Coupe "Black Beauty" 1930 Ford Model A truck "Club Cab" 4x4 Rottenwood Garage and Speed Shop.....where everything must be racy! It's not just a hobby..It's a LIFESTYLE!!! Thanks for nothing Barrett-Jackson You cant fix stupid or teach accountability! Time wasters, looky Lous and tire kickers are everywhere! |
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#12 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cypress, Texas
Posts: 17
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
I recommend getting shock extenders for the rear drop. It is a cheap and easy mod that will align the shocks more vertical.
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#13 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Beautiful BC, Canada, eh?!
Posts: 2,227
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
Dropped arms do nothing to correct the front suspension geometry (lowered roll center and increased wheel scrub), but they do get you low.
Dropped spindles ~theoretically~ correct (or at least minimize) the changes, but I have not specifically measured a set to prove either way. I've driven vehicles lowered (equally) with spindles and without, and spindles tend to "feel" better, but hard to put a finger on ~what~ exactly makes them feel better. Enjoy the ride, and let us know what you find.
__________________
1961 Apache: "Grabber Orange" Shortboxed, pancake, step-notch, air-ride, boosted-LS 1977 Silverado: Shortboxed & dropped, potato-potato V8 Pontiac Firefly (Chevy Sprint): The ultimate engine swap: 5.7L in a 1.0L bag Lotus Super 7 Replica: Scratch-built street-legal rollerskate |
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#14 | |
Rottenwood Garage Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 4,321
|
Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
Quote:
For those interested in the "scrub line", the bottom of the shock relocation brackets is the lowest part of the truck now.
__________________
2004 Chevrolet Suburban C1500 2001 Chevrolet 2500HD Crew 6.0 1999 Harley Davidson Electra Glide 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Custom Camper "Dump Truck" 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Suburban "Big Green" 1969 Chevrolet C-50 Wedge Hauler "Leonidis" 1966 C-10 2x4 short fleet 327 4 speed "Race Truck" 1952 Plymouth Cranbrook "Rican" (my grandfathers) 1931 Ford Model A Coupe "Black Beauty" 1930 Ford Model A truck "Club Cab" 4x4 Rottenwood Garage and Speed Shop.....where everything must be racy! It's not just a hobby..It's a LIFESTYLE!!! Thanks for nothing Barrett-Jackson You cant fix stupid or teach accountability! Time wasters, looky Lous and tire kickers are everywhere! |
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#15 |
Rottenwood Garage Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 4,321
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
[QUOTE=SkinnyG;6901744]Dropped arms do nothing to correct the front suspension geometry QUOTE]
That's an interesting point and I admit I know little about the geometry requirements of the suspension of a C10. My goal was not to "correct the suspension geometry" but to lower the vehicle and then take it to an alignment shop to correct what had been changed. Once its back in alignment wont the geometry be correct or does altering the position of the upper control arm to match the new lower one now "change the geometry to a point that it cant be aligned and change the geometry to a point that it rides differently. That just seems far fetched to me.
__________________
2004 Chevrolet Suburban C1500 2001 Chevrolet 2500HD Crew 6.0 1999 Harley Davidson Electra Glide 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Custom Camper "Dump Truck" 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Suburban "Big Green" 1969 Chevrolet C-50 Wedge Hauler "Leonidis" 1966 C-10 2x4 short fleet 327 4 speed "Race Truck" 1952 Plymouth Cranbrook "Rican" (my grandfathers) 1931 Ford Model A Coupe "Black Beauty" 1930 Ford Model A truck "Club Cab" 4x4 Rottenwood Garage and Speed Shop.....where everything must be racy! It's not just a hobby..It's a LIFESTYLE!!! Thanks for nothing Barrett-Jackson You cant fix stupid or teach accountability! Time wasters, looky Lous and tire kickers are everywhere! |
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#16 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Baytown TX
Posts: 2,219
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
[quote=72freak;6903128]
Quote:
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John 82 Chevy Silverado 350ci/TH350 ![]() |
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#17 | |
Rottenwood Garage Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 4,321
|
Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
[quote=J Knight;6903166]
Quote:
I just read about the Ackerman Angle and I don't see a correlation between what it describes and lower control arms with deeper spring pockets. Technically nothing has changed. This certainly isn't it. I currently own trucks with 3" drop springs in front, another with 2.5 drop spindles with 1" springs (wheels scrub) and now this one 3" drop control arms with 2" drop springs. I will report my findings once this one is finished.
__________________
2004 Chevrolet Suburban C1500 2001 Chevrolet 2500HD Crew 6.0 1999 Harley Davidson Electra Glide 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Custom Camper "Dump Truck" 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Suburban "Big Green" 1969 Chevrolet C-50 Wedge Hauler "Leonidis" 1966 C-10 2x4 short fleet 327 4 speed "Race Truck" 1952 Plymouth Cranbrook "Rican" (my grandfathers) 1931 Ford Model A Coupe "Black Beauty" 1930 Ford Model A truck "Club Cab" 4x4 Rottenwood Garage and Speed Shop.....where everything must be racy! It's not just a hobby..It's a LIFESTYLE!!! Thanks for nothing Barrett-Jackson You cant fix stupid or teach accountability! Time wasters, looky Lous and tire kickers are everywhere! Last edited by 72freak; 11-04-2014 at 08:58 AM. |
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#18 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Beautiful BC, Canada, eh?!
Posts: 2,227
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
The Geometry I'm talking about is camber curve and roll center location, both of which are affected by dropped arms. Front roll center goes ~very~ low when dropping with arms (or even just massive drop springs). On bumps or body roll, the tire may camber in a whole lot more than before (though the factory geometry looks pretty bad to begin with - dropped arms might be an improvement in camber control). As the lower arms angle more and more away from horizontal, the tire will be dragged sideways in bumps, which will scrub your tires off faster.
Spindles try to do their best to minimize the roll center and camber curve change. Roll center will be affected slightly because the tire is now in a different location (this raises the front roll center closer to the center of gravity). Some manufacturers relocate the steering arm on drop spindles to better clear the now relocated wheel - this will change Ackerman, usually for the worse. Ackerman angle helps your vehicle turn corners by turning the inside wheel ~more~ than the outside wheel. Camber, Caster, and Toe, can all be reasonably corrected at the alignment shop, regardless of which way you go. But the location and angle of the control arm plays a much bigger role in how the vehicle handles. Will it work? Heck yeah. Is one better than the other? Probably. Does it really matter on a truck that I'm not taking to the track? Heck no.
__________________
1961 Apache: "Grabber Orange" Shortboxed, pancake, step-notch, air-ride, boosted-LS 1977 Silverado: Shortboxed & dropped, potato-potato V8 Pontiac Firefly (Chevy Sprint): The ultimate engine swap: 5.7L in a 1.0L bag Lotus Super 7 Replica: Scratch-built street-legal rollerskate |
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#19 |
Rottenwood Garage Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 4,321
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
Ok folks. Thanks for all the input. Its done and we have some miles on it. Rides great with no issues. My first gripe was a lot of these companies sell these kits as a 3-5. On this square body a 3-5 did not work as the front ends up a little higher than the rear. I had to go with an additional 2" drop springs. My second complaint was product related. I did the 3-5 DJM lower control arm drop with rear axle flip and the truck needing lowering in the front but side to side sat perfect!!! Once I ordered the DJM 2" drop springs from Summit and installed them the truck was 1.25 inches higher on the passenger side front. We checked spring placement and all was good. I did not want to be down in order to return the springs so we shaved a little off the left to even it up. I truly believe the springs sent to me were miss matched. Now that its done the rake is perfect and side to side its perfect.
No turning radius loss at all. No rim scrub and PLENTY of room for wider or more offset. Rear shock re-locators are the lowest part of the scrub line once the spare was removed and exhaust was changed. As far as the geometry change goes, when I swap the truck from a low cruiser into a SCCA race truck I will work on correcting that then.
__________________
2004 Chevrolet Suburban C1500 2001 Chevrolet 2500HD Crew 6.0 1999 Harley Davidson Electra Glide 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Custom Camper "Dump Truck" 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Suburban "Big Green" 1969 Chevrolet C-50 Wedge Hauler "Leonidis" 1966 C-10 2x4 short fleet 327 4 speed "Race Truck" 1952 Plymouth Cranbrook "Rican" (my grandfathers) 1931 Ford Model A Coupe "Black Beauty" 1930 Ford Model A truck "Club Cab" 4x4 Rottenwood Garage and Speed Shop.....where everything must be racy! It's not just a hobby..It's a LIFESTYLE!!! Thanks for nothing Barrett-Jackson You cant fix stupid or teach accountability! Time wasters, looky Lous and tire kickers are everywhere! |
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#20 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Decatur, Texas
Posts: 673
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
I was thinking about going with the same control arm drop with a cut coil on my Suburban. It has 7" aluminum wheels on it right now that I'd like to keep and I'm worried that I'd have to go with steelies with a spindle drop.
Any wheelwell interference with the tires you're running? Any chance you could you take a pic of the ball joint clearance?
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Romans 10:9 - The Truth |
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#21 | |
Rottenwood Garage Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 4,321
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
Quote:
__________________
2004 Chevrolet Suburban C1500 2001 Chevrolet 2500HD Crew 6.0 1999 Harley Davidson Electra Glide 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Custom Camper "Dump Truck" 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Suburban "Big Green" 1969 Chevrolet C-50 Wedge Hauler "Leonidis" 1966 C-10 2x4 short fleet 327 4 speed "Race Truck" 1952 Plymouth Cranbrook "Rican" (my grandfathers) 1931 Ford Model A Coupe "Black Beauty" 1930 Ford Model A truck "Club Cab" 4x4 Rottenwood Garage and Speed Shop.....where everything must be racy! It's not just a hobby..It's a LIFESTYLE!!! Thanks for nothing Barrett-Jackson You cant fix stupid or teach accountability! Time wasters, looky Lous and tire kickers are everywhere! |
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#22 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Decatur, Texas
Posts: 673
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
Thanks for the update. Your truck has the perfect stance in that last photo. Nice to see a truck without the big wheel look too!
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Romans 10:9 - The Truth |
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#23 |
Rottenwood Garage Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 4,321
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
Thanks. We think it looks good too. Call me old school but I still like the 15" look with fat meat and most of the trucks I do I go that route. I will say that if I had my druthers it would have some 17" wheels of Torq Thrust variety with black inserts but I had these in inventory and they looked fantastic so on they went.
__________________
2004 Chevrolet Suburban C1500 2001 Chevrolet 2500HD Crew 6.0 1999 Harley Davidson Electra Glide 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Custom Camper "Dump Truck" 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Suburban "Big Green" 1969 Chevrolet C-50 Wedge Hauler "Leonidis" 1966 C-10 2x4 short fleet 327 4 speed "Race Truck" 1952 Plymouth Cranbrook "Rican" (my grandfathers) 1931 Ford Model A Coupe "Black Beauty" 1930 Ford Model A truck "Club Cab" 4x4 Rottenwood Garage and Speed Shop.....where everything must be racy! It's not just a hobby..It's a LIFESTYLE!!! Thanks for nothing Barrett-Jackson You cant fix stupid or teach accountability! Time wasters, looky Lous and tire kickers are everywhere! |
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#24 |
Rottenwood Garage Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 4,321
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Re: 1986 C10 shorty drop questions..a little help please.
Sold
__________________
2004 Chevrolet Suburban C1500 2001 Chevrolet 2500HD Crew 6.0 1999 Harley Davidson Electra Glide 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Custom Camper "Dump Truck" 1972 Chevrolet C-20 Suburban "Big Green" 1969 Chevrolet C-50 Wedge Hauler "Leonidis" 1966 C-10 2x4 short fleet 327 4 speed "Race Truck" 1952 Plymouth Cranbrook "Rican" (my grandfathers) 1931 Ford Model A Coupe "Black Beauty" 1930 Ford Model A truck "Club Cab" 4x4 Rottenwood Garage and Speed Shop.....where everything must be racy! It's not just a hobby..It's a LIFESTYLE!!! Thanks for nothing Barrett-Jackson You cant fix stupid or teach accountability! Time wasters, looky Lous and tire kickers are everywhere! |
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