Solder or not to solder terminals

[oilslicktg]

I crimp and solder my terminals and use heat shrink tube on the small plastic piece down onto the insulation of the wiring. My buddy says that crazy, just crimp’em. I can see it taking a longer time to wire, but I also see a better connection. Am I crazy?

[OrrieG]

A GOOD crimp connection will do as well in most automotive applications. I was going to solder mine until I saw a TV show on constructing a WRC car. The crimped all the wiring, they doing the work said soldering heats the wire and creates a potential breaking point where the solder joint ends. Key are good connectors (not the skinny HF or auto box store kind) and a good stripper that does not cut into the wire and crimper that is designed for the correct size of wire. Klien is a good tool brand to start with.

[dwcsr]

If your soldering is of good quality then solder. If you crimp and solder and have a not so good crimp along with a not so good solder it can cause the joint to heat up and melt the solder out.
I only solder joints that may be in the weather portions of a harness that does not get good air flow or a high chance of a wire getting pulled out of a crimp. The crimp has to pass on its own soldered or not. The rest I just crimp and if its a very thin wire I just solder. Shrink tubing is always a good idea

[enaberif]

4:1 Shrink Tube with glue and a good crimp is all I've ever done and had no issues.

[Spblack]

I solder all my connections. I use SN63 solder for work and it holds up to 150c and 20gs. If you see solder connections breaking, its either a bad soldering job or poor solder. Id rather solder than be stranded because of wire coming loose from a crimp and not being able to trace it. That's just me.

[Speedbumpauto]

Get rid of the connectors that have the plastic insulation already on them. I used to take the time to cut or pull that plastic off but now buy solder type terminals from Waytec or an electronics store and use StaCon crimpers + shrink tube+ solder as needed. Makes a good looking, strong, weather tight connection.

[_Ogre]

no oem solders connections, that's good enough for me

[HUSSEY]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

no oem solders connections, that's good enough for me

Exactly what I was thinking!

[oilslicktg]

Called my buddy, he’s an EE and work in aerospace, here’s his e-mail.

Almost any soldered joint will last forever if there's no vibration - that's the key. The solder itself isn't what fails; it's the interface point between the copper wire and solder, that's where the wires - not the solder - fail. Always use shrink tubing, and always restrain the wire mechanically so it can't work-harden itself to death.

[Speedbumpauto]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

no oem solders connections, that's good enough for me

Yea, but they DO use the terminal connectors that crimp on the conductor AND the insulator, using those special pliers that I finally bought and they do use weather pack connectors.

[Big Daddy Bear]

Please excuse the ignorant question, but how or what determines a good solder joint over a bad solder joint?

Is it too much or too little heat?

Cleanliness?

Incorrect/compatible solder to wire metal?

Orrrr all the above????

[enaberif]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Bear

Please excuse the ignorant question, but how or what determines a good solder joint over a bad solder joint?

Is it too much or too little heat?

Cleanliness?

Incorrect/compatible solder to wire metal?

Orrrr all the above????

Pretty much all the above. If your solder joint becomes brittle it can cause the joint to fail or increase resistance making it bad.

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Bear

Please excuse the ignorant question, but how or what determines a good solder joint over a bad solder joint?

Is it too much or too little heat?

Cleanliness?

Incorrect/compatible solder to wire metal?

Orrrr all the above????

all the above.
here is a picture of good bad and ugly
http://www.leadsdirect.co.uk/technic...-solder-joint/

The solder should flow into the crimp evenly and not travel into the wire under the insulation. To much heat does this and a dirty part needs much more heat, not enough heat makes the solder look lumpy and gritty looking like it has sand in it. grease, oil, general smegg (technical term for nasty brown stuff of an unidentified nature) will make it look like it missed spots and won't flow evenly.
Usually if you use the correct solder and flux you don't have any issues, I use a dip paste flux and tin the wire then it almost always flows quickly and evenly and ends up shiny and smooth.

The crimps I use have a tin coating on them and I heat them to the point that the tin just flashes over and looks liquid and then apply the solder.

[Big Daddy Bear]

Really helpful link, makes it easy to see what you want and want to avoid.

[oilslicktg]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Bear

Please excuse the ignorant question, but how or what determines a good solder joint over a bad solder joint?

Is it too much or too little heat?

Cleanliness?

Incorrect/compatible solder to wire metal?

Orrrr all the above????

First of all, no question is ignorant, we all ask questions, and that's what these forums are for.
A clean solder tip is very important, along with a tinned tip and a GOOD solder iron. It's like welding, clean metal, comfortable position, piece clamped so there no movement of it.

[gregg pellicer]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

no oem solders connections, that's good enough for me

Actually that is not always true. I work at a GM dealer and we currently have an air bag recall. The fix is to remove the plug under the seat and reconnect wire's with a crimp and solder. Apparently GM thinks there are situation's where a soldered connection is best. Having said that most all connections are crimped
Gregg

[Hubscrub]

when i build it i solder it most of the time, solder and shrink wrap is a clean look. i hate a bunch of crimp connects all over the place i like clean, reliable wiring, but i do on refrigeration equipment for a living but we don't have the time to solder them, but have quality connectors and tools
and know how to use them

[AZbent]

The argument over soldering vs. crimping comes quite often. I will present the pros and cons to each, then you can make an informed decision as the direction that you want to go when terminating the ends of the wires.

Soldering provides for a very good connection, provided the solder joint is proper. With a proper solder joint and supporting the wire so that it does not work harden is the key to a long lasting connection. Some good pointers have been presented here on how to make a good solder joint. The key to a good solder joint is cleanliness, flux, solder, and the correct amount of heat.

Crimping, also, provides for a very good connection. As stated the OEM car manufacturers crimp almost all of the connections. The aerospace/aviation industry crimps almost all of the connections. The key to a good crimp connection, that will last a life time, is the proper crimp, A crimp that is over crimped will crush the wires, and over time the wires will break. Under crimping will allow the wires to pull out of the terminal end leaving you stranded. So the key to a good crimp is proper tooling that will not over/under crimp the wire.

The people that will argue that one type of connection is better than the other, have had a bad experience with one or the other. IE; improper tools or lack of knowledge of how to do the job.

For those that are arguing one way or the other for looks, that is something different. If the wires are routed in a well thought out way and are secured. to allow for very little vibration then it will look very good. Even if the wires still have the little plastic insulators still on. You won't hardly notice the insulators if meticulously routed and secured.

Just a little background about myself, so that you understand me. I am an A&P (Airframe & Powerplant) mechanic working commercial aircraft. I specialize in communication, navigation, electrical, etc. (E&E). Planes don't fall out of the air because of a bad crimp, they fall out of the sky because somebody screwed up.

[Apachemike]

I use the crimp connectors with the shrink wrap ends for all my outside the cab connections. All in one solution for me

[franken]

Not many people, even those trained to do so can solder properly. You need good materials, prep, and technique, or you get cold (resistive) connections. Some percentage of cold joints happens regardless. The parts being soldered have to not move after heat is removed before things harden or the joint will be cold.
There are dozens of crimping tools. Not many people know which is right for a connector.
Virtually all production harnesses and other connections using wire use crimped connections.
Few bother to support and attach the wiring so it doesn't flop around. Moving connections will fail whether crimped, or crimped and soldered.
Before soldering connections should be crimped or have some mechanical bond. Solder has no strength--you can bite through it.

Since soldering is an additional, often poorly, and/or inconsistently performed step, I would say a properly crimped connection has a better chance of being reliable.

[roger55]

I absolutely don't use insulated single-crimp connectors. I think they are junk and unreliable.

I use only uninsulated ones and crimp, solder and cover with adhesive-lined heat shrink.

Example:



I don't however solder Weather-Pack or Metri-Pack double crimp type connectors. They are a very reliable design and don't need soldering.

[roger55]

Originally Posted by AZbent

...Crimping, also, provides for a very good connection. As stated the OEM car manufacturers crimp almost all of the connections. The aerospace/aviation industry crimps almost all of the connections....

As I stated in my last post, with the double crimp type of Metri-Pack, Weather-Pack or similar types I agree. But I don't agree with this for the single crimp style insulated connectors that all your local auto parts stores carry. OEM has never used those as far as I have ever seen and I can't imagine aerospace or aviation has ever used them either. They are just plain unreliable.

[oilslicktg]

As far as high dollar connectors, Metri-Pack, Weather-Pack or any connector that can be doubled crimped, I agree buy the best tool and follow their instructions, no need to solder.
I'm referring to those Ring Type (I use them a lot as do other car guy's) as I refuse to use a butt slice, male and female quick disconnects or the fork type. OEM have used a great double crimp, it crimped the bare wire and the insulation as on the Coil, Starter, Voltage regulator and the Horn relay as of old and no they didn't solder, but it made one tuff connection. When the Alternator came about, connectors came about, along with bulk head wiring harness and fuse holders mounted to the firewall, made life simple. I think this thread has bee a great amount of knowledge. I just wish that someone would come up with a better ring connector, a Double crimp would be nice and heat shrink.

[chuckmc8]

I only solder and shrink wrap connections.

I realize that many OEM don't soldier- but-they have connectors and crimp equipment that I don't have. I think their considerations are also that crimping is faster than solder and shrink- and in a mass mfg process this is important.

With what I have available- solder and shrink wrap is my best option. Just my opinion and experience after 40 years. YMMV

[dyno]

Instead of using heat shrink tubing over a connection, especially one that may see some moisture, I coat the connection with Liquid Tape and never have to worry about corrosion. A must for chassis and trailer wiring.