The brake thrashing BEGINS!!! Toooo much go and not enough whoa

[s_nova69]

Well my ole longhorn has plenty of go now with the 421 sbc running well. The brakes on this truck have always been good but have been getting softer over the last few years. But I am always nervous to drive it when it's wet because they will lock up so easily and with even with a small load on board you can feel they could lose it at any second.

So in with the new and out with the old! Going FULL Monty.

Factory disc up front with the larger piston caliper 3 3/16"
Ebc green stuff pads
New ball joints
New shocks
New tie rods
Rear Dana 60 disc conversion using Cadillac lever park brake calipers
New master cylinder
And hydroboost conversion.

Whew!! It should be quite the transformation.

Oh and santa made a delivery that has most of the parts already sourced.

I will make a thread when this is in full swing sometime in march. I am hoping to make a few trips with it next summer maybe to Portland swap meet and hotrodreunion in bakersfield. Who knows.

Stay tuned

[s_nova69]

Ha try it again johnny

[Aus69c20]

Sounds like a nice conversion. I'm interested to hear how this turns out. Especially the hydro boost and rear disc conversion.

[Billhilly]

Sounds like you'll have great go, and stop, by the time you are done Nova! I did a similar deal (minus bigger pistons/hydroboost) on my build. I'm sure you'll get it figured out.
A couple of points to look out for. I had a great (patient) lathe guy around when I did mine, and got him to spin up all the 'brake' components. Hub faces, (brand new) discs, anything that would affect disc 'runout'. One of the worst areas was the 'faces' where the studs pushed up against on the inside of the hubs. As this is where the rotors now seat up against it is well worth checking in my opinion. I've never seen this aspect discussed before. Personally I'd run all the discs up as well. New one's aren't always perfect.
The other issue I had was master cylinder size. I had been told (and sold) a 1" cylinder was the 'right' one. Well, after much time wasting, the swapped in 1 1/8" (stock) cylinder worked beautifully! With the bigger pistons I would say 1 1/8" would be the starting point, with anything smaller just not 'moving' enough fluid.
With nearly 6000 miles ticked over in the last 12 months (since it got back on the road) the brakes have performed faultlessly. Zero shudder/hot spotting. Even with 'enthusiastic' driving! I used the YellowStuff pads. I guess the one area that is still a work in progress is front/rear proportion. I guess it always will be to some degree with different weight loads etc.
Let us know how you get on.

[DarkFlounder]

Originally Posted by s_nova69

Rear Dana 60 disc conversion using Cadillac lever park brake calipers

Please tell more about this.

[67 chevelle]

If you have low vacuum , with a lager than stock cam , the hydroboost alone will make a huge difference . 4 wheel disc's another huge difference , so Im sure you will have a truck that stops quite differently . Shocks can make a big difference also .

[s_nova69]

We dove in today!! Got almost all the parts rounded up.

Calipers
Green stuff front pads
New ball joints
New rotors front and rear
Some used spindles ($30)
Some factory front brake hoses ( they are 1/2t though. Have to check on this.)

Still have to round up the booster from the junk yard one day soon. Going to buy the lines that were described in an earlier post by somebody else for a 2000 2500 Chev.

Also need to cut out some rear caliper brackets and bend them at work. I have a basic template so I will see how it works out as a starting point.

Well after getting the front drum off. Easy. The tie rid and upper ball joints came apart peacefully. The lower is still stuck and my pickle fork was the wrong size for it. I will bring out the torch tomorrow and convince it some more.

Getting excited!!


Oh ya some Picts

[davepl]

Originally Posted by s_nova69

Rear Dana 60 disc conversion using Cadillac lever park brake calipers

I did these on my 12-bolt B-Body car and they SUCK. They are an abomination unto the Lord. Run away.

They leak, you have to set the park brake EVERY time you park, they're unreliable, and don't stop well.

I would 100% take my factory Dana 60 drums over those Cadillac discs any day of the week. I know some people "just gotta have 4 wheel discs" (it's already in your sig so I'm likely barking at the wind here) but I would strongly recommend you either stick to Drums or step up to an aftermarket setup on the rear.

If you don't want to do aftermarket, at least do Ford Explorer rear discs. The Cadillac units weren't ready for primetime when they were new, so far as I can tell.

4 wheel disc's another huge difference

Different how? They would fade less coming out of the straightaway at the road course, but is that the planned use of this truck? Because most of the advantages of rear discs, other than maybe towing and driving through water, really don't apply to the way the vast majority of us use these trucks.

[s_nova69]

Interesting to hear the calipers suck. I have heard of many people using these and never have heard this.

I am going to add rear disc for the stopping capability. I could be convinced to put stock single piston calipers on instead and do a driveline E brake.

[s_nova69]

I wil look into the exploader calipers. Do they have a lever e brake?

[Andy4639]

I have the CCP rear disc kit which uses a basically the same caliper and I agree with davepl! I wished I kept the rear drums and spent my money on something else worth the time of installing them! They are of no big help in stopping the truck assure you.
The e brake is a joke and it's very annoying to adjust and to bleed the dang things!

[saxart]

Originally Posted by s_nova69

We dove in today!! Got almost all the parts rounded up.

Calipers
Green stuff front pads
New ball joints
New rotors front and rear
Some used spindles ($30)
Some factory front brake hoses ( they are 1/2t though. Have to check on this.)

Still have to round up the booster from the junk yard one day soon. Going to buy the lines that were described in an earlier post by somebody else for a 2000 2500 Chev.

Also need to cut out some rear caliper brackets and bend them at work. I have a basic template so I will see how it works out as a starting point.

Well after getting the front drum off. Easy. The tie rid and upper ball joints came apart peacefully. The lower is still stuck and my pickle fork was the wrong size for it. I will bring out the torch tomorrow and convince it some more.

Getting excited!!


Oh ya some Picts

Wow, those Longhorn drum shoes are HUGE!

[davepl]

Originally Posted by s_nova69

I wil look into the exploader calipers. Do they have a lever e brake?

Not sure how its activated, but it's a drum inside the caliper, as opposed to trying to use the caliper as a park brake.

[B. W.]

Drum in hat parking brakes are cable actuated. Should be able to modify your existing PB setup to work.

[s_nova69]

Oh ya I understand how they work

Let's not get too derailed

I am going to stick w the original plan for now. I do not need safety inspection so I can decide to use different calipers if I want w not really needing a park brake.

I am going to give it a try since I am already invested in the brake parts. I will not get ride of my drum brakes either. Just in case.

[s_nova69]

Billhilly thanks for input. I am starting with the 70's corvette master that is 1.125". See how it goes.

Still need to order a porportion valve from old amaz..

[s_nova69]

Stop being so negative about disc disc setups. Part of the reason I want rear discs is the ability to stop bigger loads and not lock up the rear. This truck has ALWAYS had super brakes but they lock up easy. And under load I can feel their limit easily. I want a more modern and powerful brake set up.

[drewbert41]

I think aftermarket rear disc would be the smartest way to go if that is what you really want.

[Billhilly]

Originally Posted by davepl

They leak, you have to set the park brake EVERY time you park, they're unreliable, and don't stop well.

! So you didn't like them that much then....
Without derailing nova's thread. Could you expand on the 'they leak' part of that sentence please Dave? I 'might' have put these on my truck which has been on the road a year now (6000 miles) and have been learning 'alot' about 76-78 Eldorado calipers in the last few weeks......
Where did they leak from, and did you get on top of it?

[davepl]

Originally Posted by Billhilly

! So you didn't like them that much then....
Without derailing nova's thread. Could you expand on the 'they leak' part of that sentence please Dave? I 'might' have put these on my truck which has been on the road a year now (6000 miles) and have been learning 'alot' about 76-78 Eldorado calipers in the last few weeks......
Where did they leak from, and did you get on top of it?

Sorry, I don't recall the exact location of the leak, but I think it was past the caliper piston, though it's been a long time. I had to replace one about a year after installation, then a year or two later when I had the car restored they had to replace another (could have been the same one, I don't actually know).

I don't know if mine were 76-78, for some reason I thought they were from the 80s, but I do not know. It's the one Master Power Brakes has sold for about 20 years now though...

Last year I replaced them with Willwoods. I can't discern any improvement in braking, but I trust them more.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by s_nova69

Stop being so negative about disc disc setups. Part of the reason I want rear discs is the ability to stop bigger loads and not lock up the rear. This truck has ALWAYS had super brakes but they lock up easy. And under load I can feel their limit easily. I want a more modern and powerful brake set up.

Everyone learns from their own mistakes; the wise man learns from the mistakes of others, and that's what we were sharing with you. If you want to write it off as negativity and ignore those experiences, rock on, get the credit card out, and pretend we never said anything... everyone has their own approach, wasn't my intent to get in the way of yours.

[s_nova69]

I have a different idea. We will see how it works out.


Thanks for all the input

[Billhilly]

Originally Posted by davepl

Sorry, I don't recall the exact location of the leak, but I think it was past the caliper piston, though it's been a long time. I had to replace one about a year after installation, then a year or two later when I had the car restored they had to replace another (could have been the same one, I don't actually know).

Thanks Dave. One of mine developed a leak which I assumed was piston seal. Took them both off and they were both actually leaking from the small rubber plug in the end of the piston. It's there so you can punch out the park brake components from within the piston. Oh, and that seal inside the piston.....not in the seal kits. Not serviceable apparently! We'll see.

[s_nova69]

Found some more needed parts today at pick and pull. Fitting rear disc brackets tomorrow.

[CastIron]

Originally Posted by s_nova69

Stop being so negative about disc disc setups. Part of the reason I want rear discs is the ability to stop bigger loads and not lock up the rear. This truck has ALWAYS had super brakes but they lock up easy. And under load I can feel their limit easily. I want a more modern and powerful brake set up.

If the brakes lock up, that would seem to indicate they work pretty well. Maybe the problem is the tires don't have good enough traction?