47-55.1 Speedway MII

[osaltyone]

Just working on the bolt in MII install tonight on my 49, mounted the guide to drill the holes but seems off. Anyone have the bolt in crossmember and see the same? The crossmember was flush at the bottom of the frame when I drilled the 2 holes on the sides, so not sure. Seems like it should be a bit higher; no?

[jbarron]

Looks to me like it should move up and back.

I've put a couple of their weld in ones in and the steering notch for the rack looks too far forward, but it is hard to tell from the picture angle.

Can you bolt on the cross member and check the fit with the rack?

[osaltyone]

Originally Posted by jbarron

Looks to me like it should move up and back.

I've put a couple of their weld in ones in and the steering notch for the rack looks too far forward, but it is hard to tell from the picture angle.

Can you bolt on the cross member and check the fit with the rack?

Yea, I will bolt up the cross member again and check the rack, but haven't cut the notch yet. Last night I just put the inner support brackets inside the frame and it looks like it lines up, so it might be ok. I was just thinking it was a bit low.
I measured 20.5" from the front of the frame (18 1/8 from the center of the shackle hole) and matched that to the center of the crossmember, so should be in the correct spot forward to back.

[dsraven]

haven't done one of those ones so not sure exactly what their procedure is but that plate is simply a pattern is it not? it is roughly shaped to the frame but it is not used for anything but a pattern so, from the manufacturers perspective, it doesn't need to match the frame shape? the template is set in place on the outside of the frame AFTER the cross member has been set in place and lined up with the predetermined "new" axle centerline and a couple of holes were marked and drilled. you would have leveled the frame side to side, disassembled the old suspension leaving the old front spring hangers in place and cleaned the frame up, sprayed some zinc coating or weld through primer on the area, rechecked your side to side level when all done the hard lifting. then marked the frame a certain dimension back from the stock front spring shackle center line and then slipped the new cross member up inside the frame with the center line of the cross member lined up with the aforementioned marking? I would have then checked the level of the cross member against the level of the frame to ensure all is good, then clamped the cross member in place and drilled a couple of holes in the frame using the cross member holes as an initial pattern. then bolted the cross member in place through those new holes and removed the clamps, then drilled through the under side of the frame flange using the other predrilled holes in the underside of the cross member. then removed the cross member and bolted the pattern template up to those drilled holes in the web of the frame, the first ones you drilled, correct? it looks like that is what you have done there so far. now, ;like you show, the flat plate pattern template would be placed and bolted up through those new holes you drilled in the frame web originally. the other holes in the pattern piece then need to be marked and drilled along with marking where the c notch will be cut. then the pattern template would be removed and the c notch trimmed. after that you would slide the formed inner boxing plate into place and ensure the c notch fits, trimming the frame as needed. when done that you would start assembling the parts by fitting the cross member into place between the frame rails and loosely bolting it in place with the bolts where the two parts fit together on the vertical inner surface, this gets the main parts lined up with each other and the next step would be to line that assembly up with the holes you drilled initially. using a tapered punch, tapered line up bar or a rubber mallet will help with that and when done loosely bolt the assembly to the frame on the web and the lower flange. then install the inner boxing plates, the flat ones, and line them up with the holes you drilled and the cross member holes. leaving the bolts hand tight will help line everything up. the next step will likely be to install the upper towers using the holes you drilled before. when the towers are installed using those other predrilled holes, you should notice that there is a "downward to the rear" angle to the top surface. this is the antidive angle so ensure to check it. something like 4 degrees would be normal. this is likely where they say to tighten all the bolts up so the parts are not going to move and the frame rails will be sucked up tight to the cross member and all will be aligned as designed. after this you will likely need to drill some holes in the top flange of the frame, through some predilled holes in the towers, to support the upper towers. when this is all done you can assemble the rest of the front end. when all is said and done the lower control arms should be parallel to the ground (level side to side and fore to aft) with the weight of the vehicle sitting on the tires. if using coil springs and not air bags you may want to do some quick alignment adjustments and checks yourself and get a couple hundred miles on the vehicle before going to an alignment shop because the new springs will take a few bumps and some time before they get their "set". in other words the truck will likely not sit as tall in the front after a bit of wear in time. alignment is done at ride height so you would want the springs to set before spending that cash on alignment. with that said you would also want the correct final tire size to be installed front and rear so the steering angles can be set for the truck when it is finished.this is more of a concern if the front and rear tires are different diameters because it affects rake angle which will affect caster.

does any of this make sense? sound anything like the instructions from speedway at all or am I out to lunch?
before doing any of this it would be a good idea to do a frame check for square and sag. a corner to corner dimension check can usually only be outta whack by 1/8" in the factory assembly manual. if the frame is not square the truck may "dogtrack" or the alignment guy may have some extra work to do in order to get a 4 wheel alignment to be within spec. what I have done in the past is to mark each cross member at it's midpoint from side to side. then run a stringline or laser from front to rear. all those midpoint cross member marks should line up. if they don't it would indicate a bend in the frame somewhere or maybe the truck recieved a hit at some point in it's life. maybe even a hard tow from a chain connected to a single frame rail, who knows what transpired in the last 60-70 years. when doing the corner to corner dimension checks, if the cab is still on, you can do a smaller section of the frame in an X pattern using reference points at the same place on each side. these should all be very close in readings as well.
good luck and post more pics so we can all see how it turned out.

[dsraven]

just me, but I would sub those grade 5 bolts for grade 8 bolts for final assembly if it were me. also hardened washers to match and not nylock lock nuts (not a fan for stuff that is structural like this) but actual steel lock nuts that have distorted threads as the lock mechanism. no lock washers as they tend to distort and spin out of place under torque. I would also try to get bolts that are not threaded all the way to the head of the bolt so that the unthreaded shoulder of the bolt sits inside the hole against the plates and helps keep the parts lined up instead of the parts sitting against the threaded (and therefore less strong) part of the bolt. that's just me though. I am sure it is engineered to be ok with grade 5 hardware. grade 5 will have 3 slash marks on the head and grade 8 will have 6. scroll down in the link below for some info. also good to note is that stainless hardware, which a lot of guys use because it looks good and doesn't rust, is actually softer and less strong that a regular grade 5 bolt. in other words, don't use stainless for something that needs or originally called for a grade 5 or 8 bolt.

https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-i...materials.aspx


https://www.mcmaster.com/hex-locknuts

[osaltyone]

Originally Posted by dsraven

haven't done one of those ones so not sure exactly what their procedure is but that plate is simply a pattern is it not? it is roughly shaped to the frame but it is not used for anything but a pattern so, from the manufacturers perspective, it doesn't need to match the frame shape? the template is set in place on the outside of the frame AFTER the cross member has been set in place and lined up with the predetermined "new" axle centerline and a couple of holes were marked and drilled. you would have leveled the frame side to side, disassembled the old suspension leaving the old front spring hangers in place and cleaned the frame up, sprayed some zinc coating or weld through primer on the area, rechecked your side to side level when all done the hard lifting. then marked the frame a certain dimension back from the stock front spring shackle center line and then slipped the new cross member up inside the frame with the center line of the cross member lined up with the aforementioned marking? I would have then checked the level of the cross member against the level of the frame to ensure all is good, then clamped the cross member in place and drilled a couple of holes in the frame using the cross member holes as an initial pattern. then bolted the cross member in place through those new holes and removed the clamps, then drilled through the under side of the frame flange using the other predrilled holes in the underside of the cross member. then removed the cross member and bolted the pattern template up to those drilled holes in the web of the frame, the first ones you drilled, correct? it looks like that is what you have done there so far. now, ;like you show, the flat plate pattern template would be placed and bolted up through those new holes you drilled in the frame web originally. the other holes in the pattern piece then need to be marked and drilled along with marking where the c notch will be cut. then the pattern template would be removed and the c notch trimmed. after that you would slide the formed inner boxing plate into place and ensure the c notch fits, trimming the frame as needed. when done that you would start assembling the parts by fitting the cross member into place between the frame rails and loosely bolting it in place with the bolts where the two parts fit together on the vertical inner surface, this gets the main parts lined up with each other and the next step would be to line that assembly up with the holes you drilled initially. using a tapered punch, tapered line up bar or a rubber mallet will help with that and when done loosely bolt the assembly to the frame on the web and the lower flange. then install the inner boxing plates, the flat ones, and line them up with the holes you drilled and the cross member holes. leaving the bolts hand tight will help line everything up. the next step will likely be to install the upper towers using the holes you drilled before. when the towers are installed using those other predrilled holes, you should notice that there is a "downward to the rear" angle to the top surface. this is the antidive angle so ensure to check it. something like 4 degrees would be normal. this is likely where they say to tighten all the bolts up so the parts are not going to move and the frame rails will be sucked up tight to the cross member and all will be aligned as designed. after this you will likely need to drill some holes in the top flange of the frame, through some predilled holes in the towers, to support the upper towers. when this is all done you can assemble the rest of the front end. when all is said and done the lower control arms should be parallel to the ground (level side to side and fore to aft) with the weight of the vehicle sitting on the tires. if using coil springs and not air bags you may want to do some quick alignment adjustments and checks yourself and get a couple hundred miles on the vehicle before going to an alignment shop because the new springs will take a few bumps and some time before they get their "set". in other words the truck will likely not sit as tall in the front after a bit of wear in time. alignment is done at ride height so you would want the springs to set before spending that cash on alignment. with that said you would also want the correct final tire size to be installed front and rear so the steering angles can be set for the truck when it is finished.this is more of a concern if the front and rear tires are different diameters because it affects rake angle which will affect caster.

does any of this make sense? sound anything like the instructions from speedway at all or am I out to lunch?
before doing any of this it would be a good idea to do a frame check for square and sag. a corner to corner dimension check can usually only be outta whack by 1/8" in the factory assembly manual. if the frame is not square the truck may "dogtrack" or the alignment guy may have some extra work to do in order to get a 4 wheel alignment to be within spec. what I have done in the past is to mark each cross member at it's midpoint from side to side. then run a stringline or laser from front to rear. all those midpoint cross member marks should line up. if they don't it would indicate a bend in the frame somewhere or maybe the truck recieved a hit at some point in it's life. maybe even a hard tow from a chain connected to a single frame rail, who knows what transpired in the last 60-70 years. when doing the corner to corner dimension checks, if the cab is still on, you can do a smaller section of the frame in an X pattern using reference points at the same place on each side. these should all be very close in readings as well.
good luck and post more pics so we can all see how it turned out.

Thank you for the info. What you have written out sounds like the instructions.
https://static.speedwaymotors.com/pdf/91044754.pdf
You are correct, I had drilled the first 4 holes on each side and had just bolted the template up and thought it didn't look correct, so took pics and called it a night.
Then last night while laying in bed I realized it was just the template and if I took the inner brackets and lined them up to the inside of the frame it all would line up.
I'll try to get out there tomorrow to cut the notch. I did check for level and square before so should be good there.

[osaltyone]

Originally Posted by dsraven

just me, but I would sub those grade 5 bolts for grade 8 bolts for final assembly if it were me. also hardened washers to match and not nylock lock nuts (not a fan for stuff that is structural like this) but actual steel lock nuts that have distorted threads as the lock mechanism. no lock washers as they tend to distort and spin out of place under torque. I would also try to get bolts that are not threaded all the way to the head of the bolt so that the unthreaded shoulder of the bolt sits inside the hole against the plates and helps keep the parts lined up instead of the parts sitting against the threaded (and therefore less strong) part of the bolt. that's just me though. I am sure it is engineered to be ok with grade 5 hardware. grade 5 will have 3 slash marks on the head and grade 8 will have 6. scroll down in the link below for some info. also good to note is that stainless hardware, which a lot of guys use because it looks good and doesn't rust, is actually softer and less strong that a regular grade 5 bolt. in other words, don't use stainless for something that needs or originally called for a grade 5 or 8 bolt.

https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-i...materials.aspx


https://www.mcmaster.com/hex-locknuts

I was thinking the same about the bolts/washers and once mock up was done would swap them out for grade 8 even though its probably not needed. Just starting on this build, so lots to pick up on the AD trucks.

[sack54]

Look for Tapered Frame bolt,they will hold very tight. Only use threaded area for clamp force. Get the right size and pound in tight fit They are called frame bolts some times.

[dsraven]

even better idea on the shoulder bolt. you just gotta look online for the specs of what you need so the shoulder is the correct length. the problem you may find is that the shoulder bolts usually come in a 3/8 diameter on the threaded part and a larger diameter, like 1/2" on the shoulder. the holes are probably drilled to 25/64 in the instructions so the holes would all need to be redrilled. the other problem may be that the bolts are pretty short so they may not come with an actual shoulder on them if looking at frame bolts. most shoulder bolts I have seen are allen head style as well.
when working in a truck shop I found mostly when we needed to do frame or suspension work we would drill the hole with a reamer drill and the bolts were sized accordingly to be a tight fit. grd 8 flange head bolts against the frame and then grd 8 nuts against the cross member or other part being bolted on, or grd 8 hex bolts with hardened flat washers under the bolt head and under the nut, interference threads on the lock nuts instead of nylon lock nuts.

https://www.amazon.com/Frame-Reamer-.../dp/B01A9B1AQ2

https://www.nutsandbolts.com/socket-...-1-p-6448.html


https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-3-8-16-x-...0AAOSwNDJafGuV

[dsraven]

I would say bolt it all up as the instructions say and then replace the bolts with whatever you decide after it is all together. remember to torque the bolts up in the final.