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#1 |
Got Light Emitting Diode?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 2,485
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aluminum heads
i have a question and i am going to give all the info i have, which isnt much since i got the info from my dad (who doesnt know much about motors) who got it from the guy selling them.
he is selling a used set of aluminum ZZ4 heads. the combustion chamber is 58cc and the valves are 194/155 and they have a maximum valve lift of 525. he is asking 500 bucks for them. one is that a good price and second what are ZZ4? would these work with my 406, i know i would have to have the seam holes drilled, and he said that they are center bolt valve covers, which would mean that i need valve covers and an intake. i know that my current heads are 74 cc and i believe the valves are 202/160 (stock 73 heads for a 400) i am sure that if i were to get these heads i would get a better cam too. any info would help. thanks Ben
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1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's ![]() 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler |
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#2 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 2,932
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I would think that would be a good deal. I would be very interested in them! As far as them working that would be a pretty big jump in compression but I dont know if they would work or not?
Do they use the old style intake? Not vortec? Thanks Dave
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Dave 1968 Custom Chevy with turbo charged 5.3 gen III 4l80e swap 1967-71 GMC 3/4 ton long step 4x4 (not sure what year exactly?) "A good friend will bail you out of jail...but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "that was frekin awesome". "If it doesn't fit force it...If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway!" |
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#3 |
68cst_ss490
Join Date: May 2001
Location: edmonton,canada
Posts: 1,363
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Sounds like a great deal I'd jump on that. Depending on what pistons you have you could see a huge jump in compression. which you may or may not want. If you arte around 9.:1 now you could end up being close to 11:1. which is hard to run on pump gas. On the good side you could go with a bigger cam etc. Yu could always buy them and sell them as a profit as well
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Dean edmonton,canada a winter wonderland 2005 Chevrolet Avalanche LT cold air intake, performance exhaust, Comp cams cam, jba shorty ceramic headers. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3090973 |
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#4 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Virginia Beach, Va. U.S.A.
Posts: 15,320
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These heads will use the old style intake, not the Vortec style (intake bolts go straight down on vortecs). 58cc will bump your compression quite a bit, and will also put your valves closer to the piston. Make sure that your pistons are recessed to clear those valves!!
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#5 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ark City KS
Posts: 505
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Also with aluminum heads, generally they allow about a 1 point bump in CR due to the heat sink ability of the aluminum.
BTW a ZZ4 is one of GMs hi performance crate engines. A sometimes cheaper alternative to the ZZ4 heads are heads from a TPI Vette, pretty close to the same specs as a ZZ4 head
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71 Chevy C10 "The Rust Bucket" 72 Chevy C10 apart in the garage 02 WS6 T/A Fast Black and bad@$$ 93 Nissan Pathfinder "Emily" Totaled RIP girl ![]() 05 Jeep Grand Cherokee-HEMI powered ![]() 87 Iroc Z28 305 TPI auto (crying out for an LS1 swap) |
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 2,932
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I also believe these have 1.94/1.5 valves. I have a Vette TPI and was looking for a set (cheap) of the ones Rustyold72 mentioned.
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Dave 1968 Custom Chevy with turbo charged 5.3 gen III 4l80e swap 1967-71 GMC 3/4 ton long step 4x4 (not sure what year exactly?) "A good friend will bail you out of jail...but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "that was frekin awesome". "If it doesn't fit force it...If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway!" |
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#7 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 41
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http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/perfpart...on=ep#12556463
You can find all the info at the above link. That price is a steal, they sale for about $470.00 each. |
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#8 |
Got Light Emitting Diode?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 2,485
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thanks for the info. as far as th pistons i am pretty sure there is room (pic attached) one thing that kinda worries me is putting that much more on the top end, will it blow the bottom end out? i did a half a$$ed rebuild, replaced the main and conecting rod bearings, but didnt pull the pistons out. there was no lip at the top and you could still see honeing marks in the cylinder walls. all the bearing gaps where with in specs. now for the valve size, it is smaller than stock, is that made up by the amount of valve lift there is? thanks for all the help
Ben
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1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's ![]() 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler |
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#9 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Virginia Beach, Va. U.S.A.
Posts: 15,320
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You bottom end should be fine. The 1:94 valves are actually better for low-end torque plus you'll be gaining compression, but I thought the ZZ-4 have 202 intake valves, my ZZ-3 does.
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#10 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ark City KS
Posts: 505
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Not only the lift, but the flow rate of those heads is better than the 73 400 heads, IIRC one of the big mags did a comparison test that included the ZZ4 heads, and while out flowed by the big $$$ aftermarket heads, they flowed well enough to rate a best bang for the buck rating, so I don't think they'll have any problem feeding your 406.
Don't be too concerned about the half a$$ed rebuild, I've done several like that and had no probs
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71 Chevy C10 "The Rust Bucket" 72 Chevy C10 apart in the garage 02 WS6 T/A Fast Black and bad@$$ 93 Nissan Pathfinder "Emily" Totaled RIP girl ![]() 05 Jeep Grand Cherokee-HEMI powered ![]() 87 Iroc Z28 305 TPI auto (crying out for an LS1 swap) |
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#11 |
Got Light Emitting Diode?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 2,485
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so it looks like i am buying a set of zz4 heads at the end of march. next what would be a good cam for this set up?
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1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's ![]() 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler |
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#12 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Knoxville Tenn.
Posts: 3,058
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Call one of the cam manuf. and tell them what you have. They will match you a cam for what you want to use the engine for.
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56 Chevy Bel-Air 2dr. HT (purchased new) 71 Chevy Cheyenne SWB PU (502HO) 65 GMC short bed step--work in progress and my gofer |
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#13 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ark City KS
Posts: 505
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Quote:
![]() ![]() Although you may be on hold for a while, at least I was calling Comp Cams ![]()
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71 Chevy C10 "The Rust Bucket" 72 Chevy C10 apart in the garage 02 WS6 T/A Fast Black and bad@$$ 93 Nissan Pathfinder "Emily" Totaled RIP girl ![]() 05 Jeep Grand Cherokee-HEMI powered ![]() 87 Iroc Z28 305 TPI auto (crying out for an LS1 swap) |
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#14 |
Got Light Emitting Diode?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 2,485
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who is a good cam company, all i know is crane and comp
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1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's ![]() 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler |
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#15 |
Got Light Emitting Diode?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 2,485
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ttt before work
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1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's ![]() 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler |
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#16 |
Pesemistic Optimist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Prineville, Oregon
Posts: 227
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I have always been partial to Comp Cams, but there's Crane, Lunati, Edelbrock. Those are the ones I would look at for a street build.
Dan.
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1972 K20 Cheyenne Super Custom Camper- 4" lift & 35's, built TH350 and 355. Daily driver resto in progress. 1999 Yukon Denali- Wife's ride, hands off. |
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#17 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Vacaville, CA
Posts: 2,746
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Don't forget to have steam holes drilled in those heads to match your 400 water jacket holes. Read this: http://www.trickflow.com/product/che...stallation.asp
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#18 |
Got Light Emitting Diode?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 2,485
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thats a good page neonlarry, i knew about the steam holes and was planning on letting a shop do that for me. shouldnt be too much
__________________
1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's ![]() 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler |
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#19 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 41
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If I remember correctly the springs are good to 544 max lift only. So watch what size cam and roller rocker ratio you go with. 1.5 roller rockers versus 1.6 can make a big difference.
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#20 |
Got Light Emitting Diode?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 2,485
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thats what i was looking into today, he has the roller cam that he took out of the motor the heads are on and he would sell that to me too. the specs are L-474i, 510e D-208i, 221e. and he put 1.6 roller rockers on it but is taking them off for his next set of heads and is giving me the stock rockers for these heads, which i am not sure of the specs of.
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1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's ![]() 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler |
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#21 |
Got Light Emitting Diode?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 2,485
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well i forgot the price on these when i talked to him today and said 400, and he said OK!!! i am picking them up tomorrow
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1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's ![]() 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler |
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#22 |
68cst_ss490
Join Date: May 2001
Location: edmonton,canada
Posts: 1,363
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you are getting a great deal. You will love those heads and the extra power you get from them.
__________________
Dean edmonton,canada a winter wonderland 2005 Chevrolet Avalanche LT cold air intake, performance exhaust, Comp cams cam, jba shorty ceramic headers. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3090973 |
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#23 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Hernando, MS USA
Posts: 1,152
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Quote:
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George Morgan Hernando, MS '69 C-10 swb fleetside '72 GMC swb Stepside |
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#24 |
Got Light Emitting Diode?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 2,485
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why would the block need mods? wouldnt i just put the roller lifters in and put the retainers that hold the roller in the right position and then push rods, roller rockers and i am good, right? no block work needed. i am not buying the cam as it is smaller than what i have, just courious
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1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's ![]() 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler |
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#25 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,977
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You'll need a cam button of some sort to prevent the cam from 'walking' (shifting fore/aft within the block). Your current flat tappet cam is ground so that the lifters rotation keep the cam from walking, roller cams aren't ground for this.
Also, if your driving this on the street, watch your static & dynamic compression ratios or you'll have to run on super unleaded.
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. Last edited by SCOTI; 03-29-2005 at 12:53 PM. |
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