Engine Ping!!!!!!!

[1FaastC10]

Originally Posted by Yellow Silverado

No "articles" quoted from my side Cliff. All of my information (formerly drivin' miss daisy) comes from working in a laboratory that tested fuels for all of the refiners around the country. I state only facts from experience, not what one company claims in an article.

Darryl, what you fail to realize with no quoted sources your posting is worth about as much as a $3 bill. sure, you only state facts, after all, who would lie on the internet?

BTW, Santa Claus is my uncle. this weekend we're having the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny over for a big get together. honest! i wouldnt lie!

[daveM]

Sorry I ruffled your feathers Yellow Silverado.

Still I answered the question, backed it up with a real world test by a reputable company.

You talked much about octane which really isn't the original posters problem. I told him what his problem is (carbon build up). You told him GM doesn't know where to set the timing, to change it and run mid grade fuel. ??

Anyway enough from me on this thread unless you can post some white papers or whatever that prove Shells findings incorrect.

[screwballl]

Originally Posted by Yellow Silverado/Daisy

Screwball,
With the advent of newer technology, ie fuel injection, comes changes in the way fuels are blended and components used. Also federal emissions standards are constantly changing, which puts more pressure on the refiners to research and develop cleaner burning fuels. Each grade of gasoline has to meet a specific set of standards including octane value, vapor pressure (in winter, more vapor pressure aiding in starting and combustion, in summer, lower vapor pressure because the heat naturally helps vaporize the gasoline and build up more pressure), and distillation (which is the determination of the temperature range at which the fuel burns and evaporates and determines the residual amount of unburned fuel that remains after being burned and even the acidity of the residue can be determined). There is a huge battery of tests that gasoline must go through before being presented to the end consumer. In addition there are different specifications for certain regions of the U.S.A and Canada.

Today, since cars and trucks are all being manufactured with fuel injection, gasolines are being produced based on the performance of todays vehicles. Computers that tell the vehicle when to fire how much fuel to burn and exactly where the timing should be have changed the performance of gasoline. Yes, 87 octane is 87 octane, the difference is in the combustion characteristics and the many additives that are put into todays gasolines. Just like in th late 70's when leaded gasoline was being phased out, people found out that their cars and trucks which were designed for leaded fuel didn't perform as well on unleaded, we are finding that our carbureted vehicles don't perform as well on fuels designed for fuel injected vehicles.

Hope this helps and if you have anymore questions just ask.

BTW Dave M don't be a . If you can't "honestly" "try" to help and at least "act" like an adult, then "please" don't post to "maliciously" insult me.
Thanks

wow, you must be a journalist. a nice small story otherwise known as creative bullsh*t. Vague generalized paragraphs taken from one sentence.
your sentence is:
The gasoline of today is not the same as the gasoline of years past.

Now back to my original comment which has yet to be answered. Yes gas has changed over the years. Yes different areas of the states use different gas, the true midwest (central plains) adds Ethanol to their gas which ruins fuel injectors but helps carbed vehicles run cleaner.
I was wondering how these tests can be used to our advantage so we can adjust our timing and use the right octane gas for our truck. My 76 can run on elcheapo 87 and runs like crap on 91. My burb with TBI, I haven't had it long enough to test different grades yet, i am waiting for prices to come down before i fill up with 91. 87 is down to $2.149 locally now, was at 2.399 for awhile.i am waiting until 91 gets back down around $2.00

edit: sorry i didnt mean to call what you're saying a lie or bullsh*t as it is completely true but you could have used 2-3 sentences to convey that point, not a 3 page essay on "Fuels through the years".

[86-C10-V6]

When you set the timing, you are setting it in one place, i.e. no vacuum advance and no mechanical advance. Without testing the timing at other places on the timing curve you have no idea what may be causing the pinging.
I have always had pinging problems because basically the 4.3 really is not enough engine with the gear ratio I am running(3.08), but I have solved most of my problems with an adjustable vacuum advance and verifying the timing with a dial back timing light.
I find it unusuall that it pings when cold and not when hot. If your engine is pinging from carbon build up it will do it much worse when hot than when it is cold. Usually the choke will cause a richer mixture when cold and you would get even less pinging, in addition if you are running a TCC type transmisison like the 700R4, the torque converter will not lock when the engine is cold and less likely to lead to pinging while cold.
Fuel injected engines are much more prone to suffer from gas that does not contain enough detergents since the injector openings are much smaller and any varnish build up will reduce the opening causing lean combustion and pinging. Carb engines can suffer as well but usually not quite as bad.
The first thing I would suggest is checking your timing with a dial back timeing light or a timing tape. If everything is OK there, then give the carb a rebuild.
If everything is OK, you should be able to run 87 Octane with little or no pinging.
Also if you are still running the original distributor that uses the ECM under the dash you should know the timing advance is set really high and some pinging will occur, but the ECM is supposed to retard the timing when this happens. If your knock sensor is bad, you will get a lot more pinging than you would get otherwise.
You can test this by banging on the drivers side exhaust manifold with a wrench and observing the timing with a timing light.
Hope this helps

[Yellow Silverado]

Wow,
Didn't mean to upset everyone. I was under the assumption that this board was used to help and get help. Not to put down those that are trying to share their knowledge with others or to get into pissing matches.

1faast I guess that means that most of your posts are worth about as much as a $3 bill too, or were you sharing your knowledge and experience with others to help someone solve a problem? There isn't room here for the boxes if information that I have that backs up my statements, but then again why post it? You can't beleive everything on the internet anyway, right? And unfortunately, I think we might be long lost cousins, Santa is my Uncle too! Go figure.

Dave M I never said GM doesn't know where to set the timing. I told him what GM's sticker says on my truck, 1985 with 150,000 plus miles on it, and what solved my pinging problem. I also run all grades of shell gasoline including the v-power and it still continued pinging until I adjusted my timing down. If I bump my timing up and use the v-power, it still pings. Hmmmmm. I guess I just don't understand!

screwball since it states "Technical Noob" in your title, I figured I should be more specific with your question to "try" to help you understand a little better. Sorry, I will be vague next time.

I am not here to make enemies nor have I done anything except try to help out Joe with his question and share my knowledge and experience with others. I hope to make some friends that share interest in our trucks, get help when I need it, and help where I can. If thats not what this board is about, then let me know so I can adjust my thinking accordingly.

Hope we can all just get along,
Darryl

[1FaastC10]

Originally Posted by Yellow Silverado

1faast I guess that means that most of your posts are worth about as much as a $3 bill too, or were you sharing your knowledge and experience with others to help someone solve a problem? There isn't room here for the boxes if information that I have that backs up my statements, but then again why post it? You can't beleive everything on the internet anyway, right? And unfortunately, I think we might be long lost cousins, Santa is my Uncle too! Go figure.

i've been around here long enough its pretty well known that i do most of my own repairs and restoration work. i have worked on trucks for the last 15 years, yes, i am only 24. i built my first small block at 11 or 12. why dont you take a few of those bits and pieces in those boxes, scan them, and post them up? i back my statements up with facts, but only when questioned. as to us being long lost cousins, i'm only related to St. Nick by marriage.

[swervin ervin]

All this talk about gas is nice but I very seriously doubt it has anything to do with the problem at hand. I tend to believe it is a problem with your vacuum advance. Our trucks (stock) have the vacuum going to the canister routed through the TVS (thermal vacuum switch) mounted in the thermostat housing. What it does is route the vacuum to different places related on coolant temps, one of the places being the vacuum advance canister. To fix your problem I would start looking at the vacuum advance canister and where the vacuum is coming from.

[piecesparts]

your going to laugh, but take a pint of tranny fluid and pour it down the carb while the motor is running. You will have to hold the throttle open and keep it running fast tokeep the motor from choking out. Then at the end let the motor quit. Let the oil soak for a bit and then start the motor and run the vehicle until the smoke clears. It will piss the hell out of the neighbors,but it does clean the carbon from the top side of the motor. After that I would recommend that you use a good grade of fuel and take a look at your timing. You probably are still using the computer system and it is questionable at the best for the optimum timing adjustment. I trashed my computer and put in a HEI distributor and got a better setup that way. The smog laws are simple where I live.

[theintimidator3]

So, it's been a few days since my last post. Here are the results.
I have changed my gas to a higher octane and set my timing down to around 5 degrees. I have no more engine ping. It seems as though the higher octane fuel helped. Thanks everyone.

Joe

[Slonaker]

Originally Posted by 1FaastC10

i've been around here long enough its pretty well known that i do most of my own repairs and restoration work. i have worked on trucks for the last 15 years, yes, i am only 24. i built my first small block at 11 or 12. why dont you take a few of those bits and pieces in those boxes, scan them, and post them up? i back my statements up with facts, but only when questioned. as to us being long lost cousins, i'm only related to St. Nick by marriage.

I don't think he is questioning your skills. He is applying your logic regarding his posts to your own posts to show you that what you said was hypocritical. You applied a standard to him that you do not apply to yourself.

In other words, he is saying that your statement "what you fail to realize with no quoted sources your posting is worth about as much as a $3 bill." means that if his post has no value, neither does yours, mine, or anyone else's on this board, for that matter.

In your defense, you have a good history here, which he does not. He does, apparently, have credentials, training, and experience to back up his assertions.

I appreciate feedback from newcomers as well as people who have been around the board for a long time. I would welcome opinions from both of you if I have a question.

Slonaker

[1FaastC10]

Originally Posted by Slonaker

In your defense, you have a good history here, which he does not. He does, apparently, have credentials, training, and experience to back up his assertions.

all i'm saying is i have never been show these "credentials", and will continue to write them off as BS, until he can post something concrete that says otherwise.

if i went to a new board, and posted "I AM GOD", do you think people would automatically drop to their knees and begin worshipping me? i would certainly hope not. those few that actually believe what a complete stranger says over the internet have to be VERY gullible.

[Slonaker]

Originally Posted by 1FaastC10

all i'm saying is i have never been show these "credentials", and will continue to write them off as BS, until he can post something concrete that says otherwise.

if i went to a new board, and posted "I AM GOD", do you think people would automatically drop to their knees and begin worshipping me? i would certainly hope not. those few that actually believe what a complete stranger says over the internet have to be VERY gullible.

You are all a bunch of strangers to me, but I will still consider the advice any of you give me. I agree with you that you must take advice given in this medium with a grain of salt. I have seen bad advice given here, and elsewhere. That is the exception to the rule here, though, and that is why I stick around.

I just think you are being overly harsh with him, and taking offense at what he says. Everyone is new to the board at one point or another, and we don't have any way to verify someone's credibility or credentials. You can't just write him, or anyone else, off because they are new. He might be a great asset to the board, or he might be a loon. Only time will tell.

Slonaker

[piecesparts]

Getting back to your problem and not dwelling on what someone said or did not say; You stated that you set your timing at 5 degrees and upgraded to a high octane of fuel. I am imagining that your truck is running real sluggish about now and reacts to your mashing the pedal poorly. I have found that the Chevy V8 works with the timing set higher and it responds better when the initial timing is set around 15 degrees, so if you can adjust it back up slowly and not get your ping then I would say that is in your best interest. It will help on fuel economy also. I have an adjustable timing light and I set my timing at the fully advanced setting of 36 degrees (with the systemm at 1500 RPM) this allows for what my truck will see and run at and I have no ping. I would take some time and open up the distributor and clean and lube it. The advance springs can be replaced with an upgrade from Mr Gasket or such (See Summit Racing catalog) to get that mechanism working freely. There is some chance that it is rusted up inside. Hve you replaced your plugs and wires, did you gap them properly and are the wires of a good qualilty. Check the cap and rotor, my son's truck was running reasonably well with the tab on the rotor broken off, it pays to have a HOT coil. Just some thoughts....

[daveM]

Originally Posted by theintimidator3

So, it's been a few days since my last post. Here are the results.
I have changed my gas to a higher octane and set my timing down to around 5 degrees. I have no more engine ping. It seems as though the higher octane fuel helped. Thanks everyone.

Joe

The higher octane will take care of the ping. If it's shell you should be able to go back to low grade after few tanks.

I'd set your timing to what GM reccomends for your truck. I can't imagine you are doing it any good.

Good luck.