fuel injection ideas for inline 6

[cell]

Hey guys, i am crossposting this from the inliners.org forum, just in case any of you have anything to add.



Hi guys,

I have a 292 in a '67 chevy, and am toying with the idea of fuel injection.

The goal would be fuel economy, not performance. So ideally I would be able to find a single barrel throttle body which I can simply bolt in place of my current single barrel carb.

Jenvey sells fuel injection components, and it looks like this is exactly what I am looking for:



However, they use a 4 bolt pattern, but they sell adapters, like so:



My carb mounting flange looks like so:



My question is, is there a standard name for the style of carb mounting flange I have, and will that line up with one of the adapters they make (they make one which fits "TH,TB,DCOE" and another which fits "TF,TA,IDF,IDA")?

[PanelDeland]

Another route for fuel injection might be to use the Clifford 4bbl intake.You may find more choices for throttle bodies with it.Maybe even a unit off a 4.0 liter engine which would be close a 250 maybe a 5.0 system for the 292.I would also look at 4.3 liter V-6 systems for maybe the injectors and electronics.It doesn't seem like it would be much trouble to build the adapter to the Clifford or the stock intake for just about any appropriately sized throttle body.I would think the electronics would be the real hurdle though I guess the 4.3 unit could be reflashed.I don't know much about Chevys new inline 6 but injection from one may be an easy retrofit with mods.especially the electronics.

[cell]

you mean this clifford intake?



For the electronics I plan on either doing it myself (I have long wanted a good project as an excuse to play with some microcontrollers), or going with the megasquirt system.

chevy has a newer inline 6 which is fuel injected? hmm...

[shelby987]

thats the intake, and you should be able to bolt any tbi unit up to it. The problem will be the computers, I have yet to find anything that works all that well. You might be able to look into the ford I6 sites, maybe they had a tbi computer that you could use....the displacements and configurations are similar enough that you shouldn't need to reflash anything.
The new I6's chevy is making is multi point fuel injection, so it is running with 6 fuel injectors....making that work would require some serious modification, and a custom intake.
if you come up with a solution, let me know!

[shifty]

I don't think you're going to gain any significant performance increase unless you can find a way to blast fuel in at the exact location the intake manifold meets the head. This was done in the June edition of Hot Rod Magazine (feature name: "The Joy of Six").

It looked like to me they were using a special 1/2" thick plate bolted bolted to the head with 6 individual lines w/spray nozzles shooting into each individual cylinder.

Let me go upstairs and scan off some pictures, someone else requested the full writeup recently.

[Bowtie67]

Along with intake what i have seen done is to make a L adapter, You coule either point it straight forward or off to any angle. Because that manifold looks to have injector boses on it it doesnt look to bad. For electronics you could run the Holler Comander 950 which supports 4/6/8 cylinders and it only requires a minimal tach signal but also can be used with a crank trigger or possibly a MSD setup.

Another type of intake that may not be to bad to build is something of what is used on the inline 4 cylinder manifolds, I dont think it would be all that bad to fab up an intake, you could have it go forward or possibly off to the side simular to the Ford EFI setup. If you wanted to get real creative how about 3 throttle bodies by utilizing 3 sets of runners for each 2 cylinders, you would be able to get or use some of the many Throttle bodies from some of the smaller 4cylinder setups..

[shifty]

I guess if you wanted something more precise, you would really need to take an aftermarket intake, cap off the carb mount, drill and thread holes in all three forks and insert a nozzle in each hole to spray fuel at the mouth of the head. You wouldn't get the precision of spraying directly into each cylinder, but it would be a lot more effective than just shooting it all in where the carb is. It would be really easy to fabricate a fuel rail to join all three nozzles.

You'll also need to look into something that will control when you spray and spark.

[shifty]

Check it out. .... this is what they're doing. Notice the six fuel lines with nozzles on the plate mounted to the intake. Granted, this is massive and probably cost money - custom intake would be required.

[shifty]

Ah - and www.injectionlogic.com

They sell the stuff for doing custom fuel injection (controlling spark, spray, etc, I believe...)

[BubbaGreen]

If you're really inclined to learn and do stuff yourself, check out this site:
http://www.rs-autosport.com/
Be sure and check out the link in the first paragraph, page seems down at the moment. http://www.megasquirt.info/
If nothing else, its a good read.

[jmanz69]

The clifford intake with some injector bosses drilled for 6 injectors, a custom fuel rail (www.rossmachineracing.com), a modded carb for the throttle body to control air, Megasquirt with the MSnSE code, and you have a cool little L6 engine. Could also make a barrel manifold with a single throttle body on the end, and 6 injectors would be a good way to go.

The new L6 engine GM makes is not anywhere near compatible with your current configuration. The Vortec 4200 is a completely different animal. Still very, very cool. I think in the next 5 years it will be a candidate for swaps in hot rods and customs. With VVT and sequential fuel injection, it would be a very efficient engine for mileage, and the off road GM guys are already making 450+ HP with them while still keeping the EFI. There isn't much available for aftermarket goodies or controllers for them yet though.

[68haywagon]

The problem with running 6 injectors is that there are only 3 intake ports. I think that would be way to much fuel.

Mike

[VetteVet]

Did I miss something or don't these EFI systems require higher pressures from the fuel pumps? That means new pumps ,filters and pressure regulators as well as return lines.

[Russell]

I'd think it'd be cheapest and easiest to get a Clifford 4 barrel intake, then a 4 barrel -> TBI adapter plate, and just run a TBI setup. It would feed that 292 no problem! Parts are widely, and cheaply available, and the `7747 ECM is relatively easy to program (does require a UV eraser)

[cell]

shifty - that looks like the weber inline 6 efi setup:

http://cliffordperformance.net/Merch...egory_Code=C21



That's ideally what I want, but it's $4300.

They do sell just the triple intake manifold for $330 (which I would consider), but I don't see the individual throttle bodies listed anywhere. I should contact webber and ask if they sell that kit without the electronics.

Also, this is strictly an efficiency thing, not a power thing. 100 hp is more than enough to satisfy my grandma style driving habits. I just wouldn't mind getting 20 mpg.

[cell]

hmm, now that I think about it, that's actually not what I want. There are only three intake ports on the engine's head, so having three intake manifolds which split into six throttle bodies is really only beneficial if going for max performance, but is total overkill for just efficiency. a simpler setup with three manifolds and three throttle bodies would be ideal, not to mention half the cost for injectors, etc!

perhaps I should just make my own intake manifolds - there is a suprising amount of stuff online about DIY casting! This guy makes his own motorcycle parts:

http://virtualindian.org/3techcasting.htm

[Bowtie67]

Originally Posted by cell

hmm, now that I think about it, that's actually not what I want. There are only three intake ports on the engine's head, so having three intake manifolds which split into six throttle bodies is really only beneficial if going for max performance, but is total overkill for just efficiency. a simpler setup with three manifolds and three throttle bodies would be ideal, not to mention half the cost for injectors, etc!

perhaps I should just make my own intake manifolds - there is a suprising amount of stuff online about DIY casting! This guy makes his own motorcycle parts:

http://virtualindian.org/3techcasting.htm

Not true, fuel injection on any of these platforms is regulated by what size injectors you have and the ablility to tune an engine. All fuel injection engines low performance and high performance will have an injector for each cylinder with the exception of Throttle body Injection which will have anywhere from 1-4 injectors. Holley makes a 2 anda 4 barrel TBI, GM I believe only produced the 2 barrel unit, on that level to be about equel a 4.3L V6 TBI (S10-Astor Van) unit may be about suited evenly for you inline 6 on top of that Clifford unit.

Will also note that better fuel economy is done with a port type injection than a TBI style injection, TBI is just a glorified carb that inject fuel vs using vacuum to suck or an accerator pump to pump a stream of fuel down the intake, The TBI unit is slightly better than the carb becasue of it's spray pattern entering the intake.

[68haywagon]

But with a tbi on a clifford intake, won't the nice spray pattern just whack the bottom of the intake. The TBI on chevy have intake runners to follow down to the intake ports on the heads. I think a clifford intake with just the thottle body, and 3 injectors drilled into the intake just in front of the intake ports on the head would be more efficient.

Mike

[Brad]

Originally Posted by cell

Also, this is strictly an efficiency thing, not a power thing. 100 hp is more than enough to satisfy my grandma style driving habits. I just wouldn't mind getting 20 mpg.

Cell, you can get 20mpg easy by using a good quality carb such as a Weber32/36 mounted on the stock intake, headers, a 3.08 rearend, and a flush bed cover, an electric fan, and a T-5 5 speed and by keeping your foot out of it. Your total cost on all of this wouldn't exceed $3000 even if you had to buy it brand new with no horse-tradin'. I think you could get all of this stuff used for at most about $1500 complete.

At one time, I had the Weber on a stock intake, stovebolt.com exhaust, the 3.08 rearend, the tonneau cover and a stock 3speed trans and I was baaaaarely able to achieve 18mpg by keeping my foot out of it.

[Bowtie67]

Originally Posted by 68haywagon

But with a tbi on a clifford intake, won't the nice spray pattern just whack the bottom of the intake. The TBI on chevy have intake runners to follow down to the intake ports on the heads. I think a clifford intake with just the thottle body, and 3 injectors drilled into the intake just in front of the intake ports on the head would be more efficient.

Mike

No, because vacuum is pulling the fuel into the cylinders, the benefit of injectors is getting a mist of fuel which will atomize better versus a jet streem of fuel that has to break apart on its way to the cylinder.

[cell]

Brad - thanks for the observations - I was thinking along the same lines, but didn't think about the bed cover, for example.

I have been toying around on http://www.angelfire.com/fl/procrastination/rear.html with gear ratios, and am definitely going with a 3.08 rear end as soon as I get the engine back together.

Do you have a link to more info on the T-5 transmission? That's something else I will definitely be changing, as my stock tranny has a 1.0:1 final gear (I need over drive to get the rpm's closer to the torque peak while cruising at 70 mph).

[Brad]

Inliners.org has some good info on their site. Just do a search.
Stovebolt.com has some good info also. Again, do a search
5speeds.com
google
Hope that helps some.