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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Whitehorse YK Canada
Posts: 2,651
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I am having, what seems to be an intermittent starting problem with my 69 GMC.
Truck is a 1969 GMC halfton, 305 from the late 70's, 3 speed manual. The truck has HEI, and an alternator with the external regulator elminated. The problem is it will start regularly and cranks just fine. They all of a sudden, nothing, I turn the key and absolutely nothing. It happened last weekend. I had been out at my wood lot cutting trees and then stopped on the way home for gas. Put $35 in the truck and then it was dead. Radio would work but it would not even turn. Seemed funny to me that it would go from starting and cranking fine to nothing. I called my wife and she ran over with the car and booster cables. Started fine with the boost. I drove home 5 blocks and shut the truck off, the it started right back up again. I drove the truck on and off all week without incident again until this afternoon. Same thing, I had spent the morning in the wood lot and then came home for lunch. After lunch went out to start the truck and nothing. So I grabbed my volt meter. Battery was reading 12.6 volts. I checked my cables and they both looked clean but a little loose. So I tightened them both up, then boosted it to get it going. When running the volt meter shows just over 13 volts and now I shut the truck off it is showing 12.7 volts and will start. I hooked my battery charger on and it went right over to 6 amps. One more piece of information, I had the starter rebuilt last summer. Questions.... 1) How many volts should a fully charged battery show? 2) How many volts should it show when it is running if the alternator is working properly? 3) Why would it go from starting to nothing? It seems like when the voltage drops below a certain point everything stops. 4) What should the charge meter in the gauges show? Mine sits in the middle no matter what? Could it be out of the curcuit with the internally regulated alternator?
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Blaine 59 GMC 9314 a.k.a. Whoopee 68 C20 50th Anniversary a.k.a. The Rat http://www.flickr.com/photos/northerngmc/ http://www.members.tripod.com/P-wee/index_032.htm 1.61803 is one H of a lot better than 3.14159, no really it is! |
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#2 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 247
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
im having a similar problem, my truck starts right up, but if I drive it like 10-15miles on the freeway and stop somewhere and turn it off, it will NOT turn back on!!! it will do the same thing as you are explaining, not a click or nothing... then I let it cool off for about 20mins and then it WIll start right up no problem??? i figured the starter or something is really HOT so it wont start, its done this 3times to me already, and all I have to do is just let it cool down for a little bit...???
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1971 C-10 SWB - LS swap w/4L60e, 20x8.5front 20x12rear, 1968 C-10 SWB - 454 BB TH350 -Gone! |
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#3 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Whitehorse YK Canada
Posts: 2,651
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
Quote:
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Blaine 59 GMC 9314 a.k.a. Whoopee 68 C20 50th Anniversary a.k.a. The Rat http://www.flickr.com/photos/northerngmc/ http://www.members.tripod.com/P-wee/index_032.htm 1.61803 is one H of a lot better than 3.14159, no really it is! |
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#4 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Bonne Terre, Mo
Posts: 3,005
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
Sounds to me like a bad connection somewhere. Several years ago I had a similar experance. Start fine till it got good and warm then die. Later nothing uness you jump it. That problem happened the same day I was moving in the truck. Come to find out the wires to the starter were rubbing against the exhaust pipe. When it got hot it melted the wire coating to the pipe. Cool down and it would start again untill it managed to melt enough insulation to keep it grounded to the pipe then it wouldn't start. I would in your case insure all the wiring to & from distribtor, Starter, Ign switch, battery are tight, clean connection & not making contact with a hot surface. Check also the black firewall connector could be not making contact on the terminals. Then if you find nothing I would look at a bad solenoid on the starter or defective ign switch. Also sounds like your bezel gage has issues. Hope this helps just a bit.
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'69 Chevy Long Fleet & '71 GMC Short Step & Project "ODD BALL" "You can wash a pig, soak it in most expensive perfume. In the end it is still just a pig." ODD BALL build thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=478629" |
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#5 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Whitehorse YK Canada
Posts: 2,651
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
1) How many volts should a fully charged battery show?
2) How many volts should it show when it is running if the alternator is working properly? 3) Why would it go from starting to nothing? It seems like when the voltage drops below a certain point everything stops. 4) What should the charge meter in the gauges show? Mine sits in the middle no matter what? Could it be out of the curcuit with the internally regulated alternator?
__________________
Blaine 59 GMC 9314 a.k.a. Whoopee 68 C20 50th Anniversary a.k.a. The Rat http://www.flickr.com/photos/northerngmc/ http://www.members.tripod.com/P-wee/index_032.htm 1.61803 is one H of a lot better than 3.14159, no really it is! |
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#6 |
I am a Referee of life.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Greensboro N.C.
Posts: 13,993
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
(1) 13.2
(2) 13-14 volts (3)Battery may be bad.Have it tested with a load tester.(Any auto parts store should do this free.It may only show up as bad under load.) (4) The charge meter on the dash may show anything.They are notorious for being off.Midway on a good working guage should be about right.It may be a bit over.Watch to see if it moves at all when the engine is revved.
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The 47-present Chevrolet and GMC Truck Message Board Network,it's owners,moderators,members,and associates of any type should not be held responsible for my opinion. You can't fix stupid,not even with duct tape. "My appearance is due to the fact that "GOD" does punish you for having too much fun!" Barrett-Jackson has perfected alchemy,they make rust into gold! "You can lead a horse to water but you can't saddle a duck" "Cleverly disguised as a 'Responsible Adult' "Sometimes your Knight in shining armor is just a retard in tinfoil" |
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#7 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Whitehorse YK Canada
Posts: 2,651
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
Quote:
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Blaine 59 GMC 9314 a.k.a. Whoopee 68 C20 50th Anniversary a.k.a. The Rat http://www.flickr.com/photos/northerngmc/ http://www.members.tripod.com/P-wee/index_032.htm 1.61803 is one H of a lot better than 3.14159, no really it is! |
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#8 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Overland Park, Ks.
Posts: 5,217
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
You are probably haveing a hot selenoid problem. A lot of selenoids had a problem with heat causing those conditions. Especially ones with aluminum wire. You can take the seliniod apart & clean & tighten all connections. You can get a high heat selinoid. You can get a heat sheild to sheild it from the manifold. Sometimes it's a good idea to wire in a Ford type selinoid in the circuit from the switch to the starter. That takes away the voltage drop through the switches & connections. The indicator on the dash has 2 fuses in inline rubber holders under the hood close to the harness in 2 different places. One or both of these are often blown causeing the gauge vto stay in the middle.
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#9 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: puyallup,wa
Posts: 12
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
i have the same problem.... the trk been sitting for 6 month , I put a new flex plate and a 1 wire mimi starter and it was cranking over and back to try againand it didn't. my trk did this before that why i put the new starter in. any way to jump wire the ignition to figure if thats the problem??
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#10 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Santa Maria, Ca.
Posts: 1,423
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
Quote:
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#11 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Studio City, Calif.
Posts: 2,873
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
I had one once,an older truck,and when that happened,which seemed to be about 1/4 of the time,I'd just crawl under there and wack the starter with a hammer,get back in the cab and it would start right up.I was dirt poor and drove it like that for a long time before changing out the starter/solenoid.
Personally I would have to ask,Did you buy that starter from AUTOZONEOUT?
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'69 GMC C2500 Custom Camper, 8 1/2' bed, New GM 350, NP 435 Close Ratio 4spd. Trans., 3.73 Dana-60 open.Camper and Trailer wiring, PS, PB, AC, tach , three gas tanks, stereo speakers, 2nd owner, Work-Truck supreme. |
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#12 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Whitehorse YK Canada
Posts: 2,651
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
NO, I had it rebuilt at a small shop that still rebuilds starters, alternators, and electric motors.
They have done great work for me in the past.
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Blaine 59 GMC 9314 a.k.a. Whoopee 68 C20 50th Anniversary a.k.a. The Rat http://www.flickr.com/photos/northerngmc/ http://www.members.tripod.com/P-wee/index_032.htm 1.61803 is one H of a lot better than 3.14159, no really it is! |
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#13 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Whitehorse YK Canada
Posts: 2,651
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
I do not think it is my starter.
I think it is either my battery or my alternator. As some have suggested to take these to my local FLAPS for testing, well this is not easily done. I live in a small isolated northern town. Nearest actual GM dealer is 575 kms away. A couple of local part sources, but nothing that offers free testing. Any suggestions to load test a battery? Any suggestions to check if an alternator is charging properly?
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Blaine 59 GMC 9314 a.k.a. Whoopee 68 C20 50th Anniversary a.k.a. The Rat http://www.flickr.com/photos/northerngmc/ http://www.members.tripod.com/P-wee/index_032.htm 1.61803 is one H of a lot better than 3.14159, no really it is! |
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#14 | |
Son of a gun
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hot Springs, Arkansas
Posts: 1,636
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
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#15 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Studio City, Calif.
Posts: 2,873
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
You show a difference of about 0.3 volts between running and static. IMO that is not near enough and since your amp gauge is not showing a charging going on,and since your battery charger showed 6 Amps charge when you hooked it up;I'd have to assume your Alt or internal regulator are not working right.
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'69 GMC C2500 Custom Camper, 8 1/2' bed, New GM 350, NP 435 Close Ratio 4spd. Trans., 3.73 Dana-60 open.Camper and Trailer wiring, PS, PB, AC, tach , three gas tanks, stereo speakers, 2nd owner, Work-Truck supreme. |
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#16 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Garageless, Missouri
Posts: 408
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
Hook up a headlamp to the small wire (purple on many GM auto's) on starter and to ground. If it is bright when you try to start it and doesn't start, then your starter is bad. On the alternator side of question, Wwere you driving at one time ok and the other with lights on? If the diode trio start to fail it will charge just a little until it really needs it like when the lights are on. Fine in the day, dead at night. Just a thought. David
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#17 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Whitehorse YK Canada
Posts: 2,651
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
Quote:
Battery is now charged and reads 13.2 volts. Truck running it only went up to 13.5 volts. Mystery solved I hope! The alternator belt felt a little loose so I tightened it up and now I get 14.4 volts at the battery with the truck running. I am assuming it was slipping enough not to provide a full charge and with short stop and go trips I wasn't getting enough of a charge to maintain the battery.
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Blaine 59 GMC 9314 a.k.a. Whoopee 68 C20 50th Anniversary a.k.a. The Rat http://www.flickr.com/photos/northerngmc/ http://www.members.tripod.com/P-wee/index_032.htm 1.61803 is one H of a lot better than 3.14159, no really it is! |
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#18 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Whitehorse YK Canada
Posts: 2,651
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
Quote:
To answer your question, no I have not been driving at night. Today in Fort Smith NT Sunrise: 4:38 Sunset: 22:10 Add at least an hour of twilight to that I have not even seen darkness in a few weeks.
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Blaine 59 GMC 9314 a.k.a. Whoopee 68 C20 50th Anniversary a.k.a. The Rat http://www.flickr.com/photos/northerngmc/ http://www.members.tripod.com/P-wee/index_032.htm 1.61803 is one H of a lot better than 3.14159, no really it is! |
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#19 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Charles City IA
Posts: 1,626
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
but in December, you only have like that much time in light, right??
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'67 C20, Under the Knife!, LWB, Eaton HO-52, Rear Coil Springs 72' GMC C2500, 350, TH400(?), Dana 60 '67 K10 4-spd., 305, SM465, Dana 44, 12 Bolt, RUST! '65 C60 292, 4 spd, 2 spd Rearend, 15' Grain Box, MINT! 09 Yukon Denali 82k Miles 6.2L/6A |
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#20 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 865
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
If the armature is damaged in the starter and the commutator looses connection to the windings, it will not crank or even click if the rotation is right so the brushes are on the bad section when you try to start it.
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#21 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Whitehorse YK Canada
Posts: 2,651
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
Quote:
Yeah the nights are a little long in the winter. December we probably have 6 hours of sunlight, plus some twilight.
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Blaine 59 GMC 9314 a.k.a. Whoopee 68 C20 50th Anniversary a.k.a. The Rat http://www.flickr.com/photos/northerngmc/ http://www.members.tripod.com/P-wee/index_032.htm 1.61803 is one H of a lot better than 3.14159, no really it is! |
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#22 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Whitehorse YK Canada
Posts: 2,651
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
Then would boosting it help? My truck would start when boosted.....
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Blaine 59 GMC 9314 a.k.a. Whoopee 68 C20 50th Anniversary a.k.a. The Rat http://www.flickr.com/photos/northerngmc/ http://www.members.tripod.com/P-wee/index_032.htm 1.61803 is one H of a lot better than 3.14159, no really it is! |
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#23 | |
Senior Member
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Location: New Madison, Ohio
Posts: 21,365
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
Quote:
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#24 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 865
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
If the boost amperage was great enough,(it will have to arc) I'm sure it will, all it has to do is complete the circuit with the next lug on the commutator. Once the circuit is made the starter will turn.
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#25 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 865
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Re: Starting problem......sometimes dead!
On the last truck I had that problem with it drove me nuts trying to figure it out. If you want to test it next time it won't start, remove the starter, take jumper cables and hook the pos cable to the field connection and the ground to anyplace on the body of the starter. If it is still aligned with the bad lugs it won't turn. If you turn it a little bit by hand then hit the power to it, it will spin up.
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