Battery and Starter Issues

[mclairmo]

Just installed a new mini starter but when I went to crank it, the pinion gear engaged the flexplate but would not turn the engine over at all, just makes a loud chattering sound. Checked the battery and it was under 12 volts. Have had my 2 amp charger on it for about 16 hours total and battery still will not measure past 12.5 volts. Battery is only 8 months old but has been discharged several times and recharged. Should my battery measure 12.6 volts or more? Could it be that the battery is dead/weak due to the discharging even though it is fairly new? It's a sealed battery and I do not have a load tester, just my multimeter. I was able to turn the flexplate by hand and get the pinion to disengage and go back into the starter. I properly shimmed the starter to obtain proper ring gear back lash (I used two shims) and the starter pinion to ring gear clearance was already acceptable. I am going to try to charge the battery one last time tonight to see if it will go past 12.6 volts. If not, I wil pull it out and exchange it and see if that helps. If not, I will have to pull the starter and bench test it to see if the pinion will spin. Any ideas? Thanks.

[BAGNDRAGIT]

if you have an extra battery you can borrow from another vehicle i would try that before trying to charge again. take it to a checker or autozone, they will load test it for you too, it sounds like you just dont have enough juice to turn the starter. and a way to test the starter for ample voltage would be to take the positive lead of your meter to the positive on the starter and the negative to the battery. if you are below 12.5 then it would point towards the battery. how do the wires from the batt to the starter look?

[mclairmo]

Cable from batt to starter is all new and thicker gauge than stock. All other wiring is brand new.

[BAGNDRAGIT]

ok, then ya i would start with trying to find a known good battery then going from there.

[FLDBRED]

I'll bet it's a bad batt.,I always do the easiest things first"try different batt".

[capev86]

i almost had a permanently dead battery last weekend with my 72 suburban. thought it was the alternator, but it turned out to be a bad external regulator for the alt. it mounts on the back, left side of the rad support near the washer bottle (at least on my truck). the original unit is bulky and mechanically operated, whereas the replacement is basically the same but lower profile and is all electronic.

[mclairmo]

I just put it on the charger again last night for 8 hours on 2 amps and it still is only at 12.5 volts. Looks like I am not going to get it to hold a charge above 12.5 volts. Gonna exchange it asap.

[mclairmo]

Update: I finally got the battery charged up to 12.6 volts and the starter did the same thing as always, just lots of chattering but no cranking. I then hooked up another battery with jumper cables and same thing. I then removed the starter and bench tested it. With direct battery power to the big top post on the solenoid and the small spade terminal, the pinion gear would just pop in and out very quickly and make that chattering I always heard. However, the pinion gear would not stay out and would not spin at all. It appears to be a defective starter. I bought it from GR8HOTRODS on Ebay and it is the 3.0HP Starter with long case for about $80. I emailed them and they say they will exchange it. We'll see if that happens or not. Lesson to be learned: bench test all starters before installing. That pinion should pop out, stay out and spin fast.

[mclairmo]

UPDATE: Mailed off defective new starter to GR8HOTRODS at their cost, which is nice. They e-mailed me a UPS tag to use to ship to them. They will ship me a new replacement. They ran out of the black ones so they will ship me red, which is fine. My battery was charged up to 12.6 volts, but dropped to 11.5 volts in only 2-3 days. I did not use the battery and it was not hooked up. it appears that it will not hold a charge. Replaced battery today. Hoping that a new starter and new battery will solve my starting issues.

[BAGNDRAGIT]

let us know, i am interested in seeing what happens!

[mclairmo]

New red starter was in the mail when I got home today. Have to bench test it first and see if the pinion pops out and spins and then install it. Looks nice though. GR8HOTRODS really took care of me and quickly. Got my new battery and new starter now.

[BAGNDRAGIT]

SWEET!! hope this fixes it!!

[mclairmo]

Put the volt meter on the Butt Boys battery and it read 12.5 volts and has probably been sitting on the shelf for at least a month. My old battery was definately toast, would not hold a charge at all. Hooked up the new starter to the battery with some jumper cables and got some nice sparks but the pinion popped out and spun very nicely, unlike my old new starter. I think I have solved my problems, just need to install them now.

[FLDBRED]

Keep us posted!

[Sinister]

I like GR8HOTRODS, I got my HEI from them. Glad to hear things worked out with your starter.

[mclairmo]

Installed the new new starter and the new Butt Boys Bosch battery and it started right up. All is right with the world now. The battery is holding 12.6 volts and the starter sounds good, no grinding. I used two mounting pad to engine block shims and it already had one shim installed between the aluminum mounting block and the starter body from the factory. GR8HOTRODS and Butt Boys came through for me this time and I did not have to spend any additional coin on it all. Actually, got $26 back in cash on the battery since Butt Boys does not carry AC Delco batteries anymore and had to give me a cheaper Bosch battery instead.

[mclairmo]

Originally Posted by Sinister

I like GR8HOTRODS, I got my HEI from them. Glad to hear things worked out with your starter.

Yeah, I bought a Procomp HEI from them for my truck but have not installed it yet. Also have a Procomp BBC water pump that works great and this new new starter is a Procomp I believe, it's the red powder coated one with silver solenoid and gold motor nose. Procomp stuff is cheap but seems to work fine.

[FLDBRED]

Glad to hear that everything worked out!Do you think it was the starter or new batt. that did it?

[mclairmo]

Originally Posted by FLDBRED

Glad to hear that everything worked out!Do you think it was the starter or new batt. that did it?

Both were bad. The first new starter I received from GR8HOTRODS was defective, the pinion would not stay out and spin, would just go in an out quickly and chatter. I even tested it with a known good battery from my Honda Pilot and same result. The old battery, which was actually only 1.5 years old was also bad, it would not hold a charge for more than a day. Everytime I finally got it charged up to 12.6 volts with my 5 amp charger, the next day it was down to 11.5 volts, which is not right. Butt Boys even tested it and said it was toast. The battery must have died after me letting it sit and discharge and then charging it up over and over so many times. I now have a new 1.5 volt Battery Tender and will use that to keep this new Bosch battery charged but not overcharged. Hopefully, this new battery will stay alive. Just goes to show that sometimes multiple problems and failures can occur simultaneously and that troubleshooting can be tough, but if you test each component methodically and in a logical manner, you will be able to solve the problem, eventually. I could not have done it without my multimeter, test light and jumper cables though.