UT oh found a 500 Catty NOW WHAT

[Hottrucks]

like it says I found it now what do I need to get it in my truck??? I have the hole car, a herst to boot!!! so I figured someone has done it before help me out here guys...I want to gather the parts then make the switch...

also woundering how with that dana 35 hold up to the new power?? it's got 307 gears now and with that much torque I would like to keep them?? or close??

Oh and I'll be looking to convert my manual drums to power too .....

[Bert W]

With a shoe horn! What year is the hearse, and or the engine? How many miles are on it? I know some cadi. performance parts can get really pricey. Your initial issues are transmission compatibility, motor mounts, and radiator or front engine clearance. There are more issues I'm sure, I'm just shooting from the hip.

The condition of the Cadi. engine and transmission (the one in the hearse) would be my main concern before I went through the time and expense.

It does sound like a cool install.

['72customdeluxe]

That truck should be deathly fast now. Sorry, had to say it :p good luck with your project though

[LockDoc]

-
There are two or three guys on here that have done that swap. Be patient, they will fill you in.

LockDoc

[msgross]

Originally Posted by Hottrucks

like it says I found it now what do I need to get it in my truck??? I have the hole car, a herst to boot!!! ...

i'm DYING to see progress on this one!

contact Longhorn Man, I think he has a caddy in his truck.

[mclairmo]

I thought Longhorn Man had done this to his rig.

[Jacfourteen]

I remember that I saw a post awhile back about how to build the motor mounts for this setup...they are completely different than anything on the chevys, it was an old post I'll see if I can find it.

[capev86]

you will want to keep the 3.07 gear with that kind of engine in your rig.....it will keep you from ripping the tires to shreds. you might still want to think about an overdrive so you don't get single digit gas mileage....that big motor will have the torque to compensate. electronic ignition, full roller valve train and possibly fuel injection would be the first items on my performance with durability with economy game plan. i'd keep the 1/2 ton small block springs in the truck.....the big engine will lower the nose a little and give your truck a mean sport truck rake.

i would advise you upgrade to a 4 row radiator if you don't already have one. my 72 burb has no a/c and a manual trans, but i will be upgrading to a 4 row for towing duties and to cool that big 406 small block i'm planning to run.

[mclairmo]

I think Longhorn Man said that the Caddy engine is lighter than a BBC.

[mr48chev]

He has a 425 in one of his as far as I know. The 500 is a bit taller and wider but should fit without issues. I intend to put one in my truck this winter.

If the car it is in is capable of being driven now I'd suggest dialing in the engine and trans while they are still in the car. Get it running right, make sure the trans works right and then pull them and swap them into the truck.
I think the big issue is pan clearance with the front cross member with some styles of pans.

I've found that to me it is easier to set the trans where It should go and get it bolted down to the trans support cross member and then level the engine and set up the front mounts.

[CSGAS]

Congrats! You are getting big block grunt with near small block weight, and great fuel economy when used with a stock Q-Jet and tuned properly!

I'm gonna start off with the belief that this hearse is a 1976, since rear-drive Caddies prior to that were supposed to come with the 472; and that the truck it's going into is the 70 CST in your signature.

The donor engine should have HEI then--so you will have to follow the same re-wiring procedure as for a Chevy HEI in our trucks, with some longer feeds.

That HEI should accept standard HEI caps, rotors, and performance coils.

Speedways Motors has a lot of the most common upgrades available at fair prices in their street rod catalog. MTS specialties has the less-common upgrades, and are pricey.

The Edelbrock manifold is a real improvement over stock, even though it is dual-plane it's more than just an aluminum weight-saver. My mentor helped develop it, and all the runners flow DOWN from the carb to the heads, instead of half the intake runners going uphill on the factory manifold to fit under sedan hoods.

One of the routines my mentor developed, was to get a second passenger-side manifold and cut the outlet, rotate it and re-weld it there to use on the driver's side. If you choose to do this, the exhaust dumps should end up in approximately the same place as truck ram's horns do.

The coolant outlet on the back of the passenger head is critical...do not just block it off to eliminate heater function. As annoying as it may seem, that fitting has to be a functional outlet; and it will always be the one thing that tries to hit the firewal first. Since the arrangement of the block and heater core/AC unit should be similar on the hearse and the intended results, you may actually get lucky and be able to use the Caddy molded hose to reach the core.

The truck radiator should do fine if it is any automatic V8 rad in good condition. Whether a big-block shroud will work or not depends on the final position of the engine--a small block shroud doesn't strike me as a likely fit. The Caddy radiator should have the same core dimensions, and only need the side-brackets cut off, to fit in our hold-down clamps if you need an alternative.

You will be happy if that Caddy TH400 is in good shape, the Caddy versions came with a lo-o-on-n-ng tailshaft that should make a one-piece driveshaft an easy proposal and eliminate the carrier bearing all at once. The slip yoke from the Caddy driveshaft should be taken to the driveshaft shop when you get your measurements.

If your current trans has the usual tranny crossmember holding up the tailshaft, then you should be able to reuse it with the TH400 just by moving it back to where the TH400 wants it. In theory, there should be all 4 holes pre-existing in the frame rails for a Chevy 400 installation, but we've invariably found we want to position the engine in a spot where only two holes lline up and we drill the other two.

Once you have the trans mount mocked up or test-assembled, you will want to jack up the front of the engine to find your desired position. with a straightedge across the manifold, set a level and find 0° for the carb surface.

You may get lucky, and Longhorn should have more info on this, but I think the oil pan from the 76 and earlier rear drive engines is a center sump that will hit the crossmember at the front edge. Eldo dual sump and later rear-sump pan and pickup combos should clear.

The smallest ring gear I've seen stand up to the grunt is an 8.2 in, I wouldn't count on the Dana 35 handling it.

I hate to admit it's been so long, I don't remember which side the starter is on the Caddies; but it is a standard GM wiring setup. Since you are starting with a 1970 wiring setup, you'll end up with one unused wire (the purple one I think)

Could you do me a favor? I doubt it with the CST model, but I kind of hope you have a manual steering box currently. If so, can you comare measurements with the Caddy power box? I am sure the mount pattern is the same, but I am hoping the shaft diameters, spline count, and distance from the sector shaft to where the input shaft begins are identical so I can plan on a bolt-in upgrade in the future, without resorting to the stock setup...I know it will likely be a while before you start but I am looking forward to your report!!!

[mr48chev]

Thanks for the info CSGAS that will help when I do the swap.

[Hottrucks]

ok where to start I guess with what I have

my truck is a 70 cst with A/C and is bagged with a c notch it has a 327 ( small cam in it) with long headers, turbo 350 with a trans pac and the dana 35 out back with 307 gears and a 4 core rad out front and power steering oh and an HEI

what I have on hand
dana 60 (8 lug but who cares) gearing is 4:10 but that could be changed to I think I want something alot higher

the hurst is a 1972 so I'm going to guess it is probably a 472 it has a non HEI distutor on it but has A/C and power steering.....I may check to see what the old girl has for a rear and take a few quick measurements to see if it will fit my old truck ) converting it to trailing arms is no big deal if the width is correct which on a side bet I would say are) I'm also going to see if I can rape ALL the A/C line and condesers to fit into the truck ( So I can chill while peeling up pavement)

wireing is not a big deal and I guess I'll pull the nose clip slide it in, in one piece till the trans mount is lined up ( I may bring it to my tranny guy to see if he can put a short tail shaft on it to make things work better and to keep the 2 piece drive shaft whch I think works better with a bagged truck when riding low)

from the sounds of it the motor mounts are the big issue along with exhaust??? can I reuse the stock Ironmanifolds?? or the stock caddy mounts?

In case any body was woundering I'm not to worried about gas mileage just squishing some jap cars at the red light when they are laying low I want to dump my bags and hand them an old school ass woop'n...so the rear will get dampeners and a set of urithain bushings and a set of 31x10 cheaters to make it stick maybe a little rr track welded in behind the bumper

[Hottrucks]

Originally Posted by Hottrucks

ok where to start I guess with what I have

my truck is a 70 cst with A/C and is bagged with a c notch it has a 327 ( small cam in it) with long headers, turbo 350 with a trans pac and the dana 35 out back with 307 gears and a 4 core rad out front and power steering oh and an HEI

what I have on hand
dana 60 (8 lug but who cares) gearing is 4:10 but that could be changed to I think I want something alot higher

the hurst is a 1972 so I'm going to guess it is probably a 472 it has a non HEI distutor on it but has A/C and power steering.....I may check to see what the old girl has for a rear and take a few quick measurements to see if it will fit my old truck ) converting it to trailing arms is no big deal if the width is correct which on a side bet I would say are) I'm also going to see if I can rape ALL the A/C line and condesers to fit into the truck ( So I can chill while peeling up pavement)

wireing is not a big deal and I guess I'll pull the nose clip slide it in, in one piece till the trans mount is lined up ( I may bring it to my tranny guy to see if he can put a short tail shaft on it to make things work better and to keep the 2 piece drive shaft whch I think works better with a bagged truck when riding low)

from the sounds of it the motor mounts are the big issue along with exhaust??? can I reuse the stock Ironmanifolds?? or the stock caddy mounts?

In case any body was woundering I'm not to worried about gas mileage just squishing some jap cars at the red light when they are laying low I want to dump my bags and hand them an old school ass woop'n...so the rear will get dampeners and a set of urithain bushings and a set of 31x10 cheaters to make it stick maybe a little rr track welded in behind the bumper

thanx for everything guys hope I can make this project work.....

[IAFF2407]

I recently did this here is the link to "part two"

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=348490

post #3 has the link to the first part, scolled to page 3, post #68 is Loghornman's link to the motor mounts.

If you do it, pm me any time for questions. Parts are out the and I have some of the important ones, exhaust manifolds, oil pan and pick up, remanned quad carb. etc..

Al.

[68lwb292]

I was into the caddy a while back and if i remember right the 472 and 500 are the same motor just different cranks, even the casting numbers are the same you have to check the crank. There used to be a place in lakeland florida that built performance caddy motors. They're websight had like a 77 coupe deville lifting the wheels might be worth checking out I'll look also and see if they are still around. Good luck you'll enjoy it, lots of torque.

Also I remember Hot Rod Magazine putting a 500 in a chevette. lol

[IAFF2407]

best website forum for the caddy motor is

http://www.cadillacpower.com/forum/

these guys will answer all your questions

[Spray-Bomb]

Here are a few things to look out for

#1 oil pan, like said you need a rear sump oil pan

#2 your oil filter wont clear your drag link, so you need a remote mount oil filter

As for the starter CSGAS its on the passenger side, but is different than a SBC starter

My drag truck has a lot of mods done & has custom motor mounts, so I cant tell you what you need there

A 425 has the single plane intake, but the 500 has dual (I dont remember about the 472

As for the gearing, you will want the 3:08 gears & you will still have no problem shredding tires

These engine dont like to rev much & the valve train is junk
Also the rod bolts (IIRC) are weak

They arent any heavier than a BBC & they really do rev rather quick for a big cube engine

YouTube - Zumo running

[CSGAS]

Whups I lost some of what I had thought I put in about mounts...

...after you have the engine set level you can decide what to do about mounts. In another thread I posted what we did when the engine side brackets were not available, using dodge Van brackets for a small-block Mopar and making mods from there.

You can use the stock Caddy brackets and rubbers, which are bulky and ugly but the stands on the frame will have to be fabbed from scratch.

What I haven't tried but would like to do, is use the Caddy engine brackets and redrill them to accept small block Chevy rubbers, then move the stock frame stands or fab tubular ones.

I think I would recommend re-using the Cad rearend over reworking the Dana 60. I think 60 cases are different for low and high gears. The only effective gear change would come from the difference in tire sizes, which isn't much...and the speedo gear in the tranny can be changed to any of the easily available ones.

I understand about changing to the short tailshaft, and I've seen it done in a driveway so it's not that big a deal. Still it may be easier to get another B-O-P pattern TH400, or even consider a dual-pattern TH200-4R. Believe it or not they do hold up when adjusted right--this was the tranny used behind Buick Turbo GNs and T-types. Each of those two options would probably cost the same as having the tailshaft swapped if you don't already have one; although the OD tranny calls for adding the TV cable setup while all 400s work with the stock Caddy equipment.

If you use the stock Driver's side manifold I gotta believe there will be some difficult routing below the steering and around the firewall...not sure but that's my opinion. The passenger side manifold should be fine as is. I have seen a center-dump Driver's side Caddy manifold, but don't know what it came from. If you don't want to modify a second passenger side manifold, I'd start with checking junkyards for the dreaded 4-6-8 engines and other 368 cube engines for this manifold...I'll be talking to my old mentor before the week is over and I'll ask if she remembers.

The A/C setup should mate up fine, the block faces at the hose ends should even use the same o-rings, etc (it should be a bolt-in) with one of the two condensers and the Chevy firewall unit; but keeping that Caddy compressor position rules out that Edelbrock manifold I mentioned--it doesn't sound like that was part of the plan anyway.

We got 14 city, 20 Hwy with similar arrangements in a Stude wagon and a Stude pickup. You'll be able to make so much tire smoke the tuners won't know if they've purged their nitrous or not--as if it mattered!

[CSGAS]

Darn it I forgot about the oil fileter...we often used the oil filter adapter off a 425, which called for a skinnier filter...is the clearance close enough (it gives about an inch)