Resto gone bad!

[sickred72]

My 68 swb started out as a 43,000 original mile truck. I have restored several of these but the body shop really screwed me! Take my advice DONT pay in advance....its been in the shop for a year until last week when we showed up with a roll back! Just incase anyone from the local body shop is lookin.....A STORMS COMIN!!!

[powell72]

I'm sorry to hear about your resto going bad, if you want we can swap trucks and you can try again.

BTW, truck looks awesome.

[big_al_71]

Man that sucks, Main reason I DO NOT want to deal with body shops....


anyhow that truck looks really good to me...

[sickred72]

Love your truck! if you look on logo / shop trucks on page 8 you can see the truck before i did started the resto. its the one that says BIG LOUS SPEEDY DELIVERY ON THE DOORS. Dont really know what to do at this point.

[mike16]

body shop is the last place to go to do a restoration.

You want to open an account that you put money into and they take money out of as the restoration progresses. steady small incremental payments with limits on how much is withdrawn and you verify progress and you control the purchase of parts, materials and supplies not specifically and directly related to the paint work itself.

body shops dont do restorations they do paint and body work.

sorry it hurts but there it is.

[sickred72]

Im doing the resto myself. They were just doing the body and paint.

[mr48chev]

The guys I know who don't wait until completion to collect have set agreements for when partial payment is required in the contract with the customer. When specific work is accomplished XX $$ are expected before the next segment is done. But where I have seen guys pay in advance the people doing the work loose incentive to get work done.

[sickred72]

I do have a contract but they are broke!

[71 super]

I understand where you are coming from, I did the same thing with my bb truck, after threats of lawyers and unnessary bs, they finally finished the truck (paint only) I did all prep, reassembly etc. my self- to give you an idea it got so bad they ended up giving me a key to the shop so that I could work and not show up at the owners home at all hours wanting in- 3 years later. Then the cock------ had the nerve to ask for more money over the contracted price and I supplied all of the materials! Good luck it is hard to find another shop to work on one after someone else has started...

[ace of shades]

Originally Posted by mike16

body shop is the last place to go to do a restoration.

You want to open an account that you put money into and they take money out of as the restoration progresses. steady small incremental payments with limits on how much is withdrawn and you verify progress and you control the purchase of parts, materials and supplies not specifically and directly related to the paint work itself.

body shops dont do restorations they do paint and body work.

sorry it hurts but there it is.

The body shop I work at has done a couple of restos. Really something not to my liking. The boss man usually gives them a quote (BAD idea when doing a resto) and we end up getting the short end of the stick. Then someone always has to ask the customer to come up with more money, and more money. I usually tell them "shop time is $50 an hour, you supply the parts and tell us when to stop." Most of the time you never hear from them again. In my area most of the shops do one resto a year or so, but the shops around here are like 3 man shops.

Honestly you don't really make money on them and they take forever; Its like the side job in the back corner that usually never gets worked on until someone asks about it. The other bad part of it all is that you take like 5k down to do some work - in a small (our) shop that money gets spent on everything but your project. It goes for overhead, the collision cars and materials. When the insurance jobs go out your vehicle gets worked on and then someone is calling for more money. Its just no good. Its not that they're out to screw people, mostly they don't realize they can't make money but they will take the job to have some income

[retodd7711]

Originally Posted by ace of shades

.

Its like the side job in the back corner that usually never gets worked on until someone asks about it. :

I have seen this time and again.
I myself got caught up in a bad deal to repair some floor rocker issues.
If the body shop doesn't wannt to work on it they should say so.
Treating my truck like a "project" isn't right.
If a trucks owner is paying his bill why does he become second to other jobs brought in after his??
O.K. Rant over.....

[72freak]

There are thousands of paint and body shop horror stories to be heard and most sound very similar to yours.....quite a few links about it here on the forum. The short version of how I have avoided body shop horrors is...........

Look around the lot.....if there are more than 4 unfinished vehicles there go somewhere else.

Have them sign or ask them to sign a document stating they cannot put a mechanics lien on the vehicle. If they flat out refuse, get grumpy or don't try to meet you in the middle on the verbiage....GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!

In the same document make sure the price is agreed on, signed off on and it states it cannot exceed the agreed upon price or TIME FRAME and the vehicle MUST be finished and approved for that price in that time frame or you can remove it without a lien.

You always get popped with the ...."but I need to buy materials".......If he cant front the materials....you don't need to be there.

Agree to ONLY pay in thirds.....figure out final price, split it three ways and pay one third when YOU approve the body work, one third after primer and one third when its is finished and YOU approve. (or something like that)

It works! You easily weed out the shops that take in restoration work just to get the money ahead of time and will get to the car when they have no collision work to do. These people in my book are corrupt, lying thieves that use "mechanic lien laws" as a method to steal!

[bad6772]

There is a HUGE difference in a collision type body shop, and a restoration shop....trust me worked at both......ANY collision shop that takes on a older restoration project is either just starting in the collision field...Or not that great of a shop to begin with....Having worked for 6 years at a high production collision shop I can say..We would never even consider taking on a restoration project unless it was the owners....Its simply not worth it....I can bring in twice the money in the same amount of time doing collision....And having worked for the past 8 or 9 months in a Custom-Restoration Shop....We would not even consider doing collision....Its a different game.......We have 5 guys just in the street rod shop....And we take no more that 5 cars at a time.....Everyday each project see's the attention that its needed...Unless there are parts issues Or waiting on customers to make decisions.....When that happens and it does......Guys will tag team the remaining cars to be worked on...It is a cycle.And there is a process that works best for the customer and the shop...It is a fine line.....But one that needs walked.....We always have work,happy customers. And we are on a 2 year wait just to get a car in our shop.........But people choose to wait....the biggest problem most shops have is Lack of qualified people to be able to do the work...Trust me I have went through 4 in the last 5 months that claimed they could do this or that...Only to mess something up that others or myself had to fix....Or to have me let them go..Which is not easy with today's economy.....But it has to happen.....So back on subject......Is there shady shops out there....Sure...that goes with anything......But don't let one bad apple spoil the bunch...Me and my guys take pride in our work. our craftsmenship.our customers...and their projects. Its a win win situation........We get to build badd ass rides. And make their dream cars come alive......There are plenty of high quality shops in all fields........Take it to a (cheap) shady shop............Get cheap shady work.........If it was easy.....everyone would do it...........

[GMC tom]

I just bought a 71 that orange and white and my buds trying to convince me to paint it red and white and after seeing yours that makes me think i may go with the color scheme.

[D.PASSMORE]

For guys like us, restoring these trucks is just a hobby. The two frame off resto that I completed, took over a year for me to finish (every weekend), I farmed alot of the body work out to various shops and had good friend paint both of 'em in a rented paint booth. Doing it yourself is the only way to go on the budget or you will be way over your head on the actual value of the truck, after the fininshed product is on the street or in the garage with drool all over it. If you want a serious show truck, take it to a professional shop - rod or resto and be prepared to kick out the BIG Bucks.

[dishow]

Originally Posted by bad6772

There is a HUGE difference in a collision type body shop, and a restoration shop....trust me worked at both......ANY collision shop that takes on a older restoration project is either just starting in the collision field...Or not that great of a shop to begin with....Having worked for 6 years at a high production collision shop I can say..We would never even consider taking on a restoration project unless it was the owners....Its simply not worth it....I can bring in twice the money in the same amount of time doing collision....And having worked for the past 8 or 9 months in a Custom-Restoration Shop....We would not even consider doing collision....Its a different game.......We have 5 guys just in the street rod shop....And we take no more that 5 cars at a time.....Everyday each project see's the attention that its needed...Unless there are parts issues Or waiting on customers to make decisions.....When that happens and it does......Guys will tag team the remaining cars to be worked on...It is a cycle.And there is a process that works best for the customer and the shop...It is a fine line.....But one that needs walked.....We always have work,happy customers. And we are on a 2 year wait just to get a car in our shop.........But people choose to wait....the biggest problem most shops have is Lack of qualified people to be able to do the work...Trust me I have went through 4 in the last 5 months that claimed they could do this or that...Only to mess something up that others or myself had to fix....Or to have me let them go..Which is not easy with today's economy.....But it has to happen.....So back on subject......Is there shady shops out there....Sure...that goes with anything......But don't let one bad apple spoil the bunch...Me and my guys take pride in our work. our craftsmenship.our customers...and their projects. Its a win win situation........We get to build badd ass rides. And make their dream cars come alive......There are plenty of high quality shops in all fields........Take it to a (cheap) shady shop............Get cheap shady work.........If it was easy.....everyone would do it...........

very well said

[oldspowered]

i see bad resto come in all the time we are the collision shop that fixes all the crappy work i just got done fixing some crappy rocker and door issues on a 71 c-10 and then we repainted it. usually if it some though the door and they want a repaint. we strip it. that way we can warranty our work.
any restorations come to the shop i deal with the customers and we sit down and go over every thing. we don't have enough accidents around here to just have collision.. i even do side work for those that want to save some money....

besides most collision shops don't care about flaws in the paint unlike the guy looking for a riddler flaw less paint job!

[ace of shades]

I hate to say it - because the shop I work at is exactly like that (with out the leans)- Everything that everyone is saying is spot on true. Most of the restos, basically just completes for us, have been the "good buddy" deals

[story time]

Take for instance a 1982 corvette - the boss man quoted them "I'll do it for $4,000 plus parts" All that needed to be done was body work, paint and clean up the interior, nothing major (didn't take the bumpers off or anything), blocked it with 80, threw some mud down, primed it, painted it a tri-coat red (newer dodge intrepid color I think) and I redid the interior from shag carpet orange to black.
Now when the boss first took on the job the two brothers that had the car had already been around shopping for prices. We do have a "resto" shop and they told them it would get done for around 30K (including parts). They took it around and other shops were basically in the same price range. So wanting the job for something to do during the slow time he told them 4K His idea was that he would tell them that to get in into the shop - knowing damn good and well that its going to cost more than that for the materials let alone labor - then later ask for more money. After they gave him $5,500, still needed to buy more parts and the car wasn't even half done they were getting pissed. After The painter/body man had over 200 hours into blocking it, and i had over 100 into the interior the boss started to get pissed that they wernt paying more. We got the car together, buffed and ready to ship. He went to the restaurant the brother's own and hit them up (in the middle of lunch rush) for ANOTHER 2 grand before they got the car. From what I hear the police were called to escort my boss of the property and to get their car.

That hole thing could have been avoided if my boss would stop under-bidding S**tto get it into the shop and then jacking up the price. On that note, a friend of mine that the boss didn't know got backed into while he was working. Insurance wanted to total the car but finally gave in and gave him 2,000 to fix it. He made a deal with my boss that he would fix the damages if we could paint it for him and the boss told him that the body shop would fix the car, make it straight and then paint it for 2,000. Right before he was to bring his car in to get fixed the boss made a comment about doing the car, but "we're going to come up with some un-expected problems that will cost some more to fix". I looked my boss in the eyes and told him "Don't ever expect to see that car back around here. You just told me that we're going to f**k a good friend of mine"

[/story time]

and such is the way small body shops work. Maybe not all of them, just the ones I know of

[sickred72]

pic before resto.......should have left it alone!

[Racinaround]

Originally Posted by 72freak

Look around the lot.....if there are more than 4 unfinished vehicles there go somewhere else.

Have them sign or ask them to sign a document stating they cannot put a mechanics lien on the vehicle. If they flat out refuse, get grumpy or don't try to meet you in the middle on the verbiage....GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!

"mechanic lien laws" as a method to steal!

This intrests me! I have been hearing of shops doin this
As I read these horor stories I sit and think that Im on the other side of the fence. I have a restoration shop and I have the most trouble getting paid.
I have done the bank card with a weekly limit, done a third party (escrow) billing. But more times than not I have to push someones project outside or in the corner of the shop, I pay $.95 cent a square foot for each month.
I have been saying i need a better system of getting paid!
Most all customer think thay pay to much but there mostly frusterated on the time it takes.
Doing a nice job takes time. I swear everybody watches the west coast customs and the likes on TV and sees cars built in two weeks. That drives me crazy!
Guys I understand the greef with shops that screwed you (cash and lack of work)
But paying for quality help, the large shop, paint booth, permits, tools, ect is exsensive
But i have to agree with you guys on the time problem! It does take more than two weeks but it doesn't take two years!

[wwotr]

Originally Posted by sickred72

My 68 swb started out as a 43,000 original mile truck. I have restored several of these but the body shop really screwed me! Take my advice DONT pay in advance....its been in the shop for a year until last week when we showed up with a roll back! Just incase anyone from the local body shop is lookin.....A STORMS COMIN!!!

Yea thats BULL-****!

(I'll take the Engine). ;0)

Well my Baby has not gone through a Resto, but HAS been in the Body Shop for 11 Weeks now.
Cost is $4500.00 and I gave them $3200.00 CASH about 6 weeks ago.
Picking up the Truck at the end of THIS week.

Good Luck.

[wwotr]

Originally Posted by ace of shades

The body shop I work at has done a couple of restos. Really something not to my liking. The boss man usually gives them a quote (BAD idea when doing a resto) and we end up getting the short end of the stick. Then someone always has to ask the customer to come up with more money, and more money. I usually tell them "shop time is $50 an hour, you supply the parts and tell us when to stop." Most of the time you never hear from them again. In my area most of the shops do one resto a year or so, but the shops around here are like 3 man shops.

Honestly you don't really make money on them and they take forever; Its like the side job in the back corner that usually never gets worked on until someone asks about it. The other bad part of it all is that you take like 5k down to do some work - in a small (our) shop that money gets spent on everything but your project. It goes for overhead, the collision cars and materials. When the insurance jobs go out your vehicle gets worked on and then someone is calling for more money. Its just no good. Its not that they're out to screw people, mostly they don't realize they can't make money but they will take the job to have some income

The Body Work being done on my Truck was by a Local 3 Man Shop.
When I brought it in, they were "up-front" with me and told me that my Truck was NOT going to be a Priority. Thier Priority was Insurance/Collision work.
I told them, I was having Contractors work at my House to enlarge the Garage, and I didn't want the Truck back until I had a place to put it,
(away from the Rain/Snow and other Nasty Elements).
Garage is being completed Monday, and my Truck will be ready to bring home by Friday.

[wwotr]

Originally Posted by retodd7711

I have seen this time and again.
I myself got caught up in a bad deal to repair some floor rocker issues.
If the body shop doesn't wannt to work on it they should say so.
Treating my truck like a "project" isn't right.
If a trucks owner is paying his bill why does he become second to other jobs brought in after his??
O.K. Rant over.....

OOPS.....
See my other post here......

[rob32472]

I looked around for six months before settling on a shop to paint my project.... So far so good.... we agreed on three payments body work, blocked and primer, paint reassembly..... I did alot of blocking and primer before they ever got the truck and the body work was real close as well... Sorry to hear about your bad luck but in the end you are probably better off!

[wwotr]

Originally Posted by rob32472

I looked around for six months before settling on a shop to paint my project.... So far so good.... we agreed on three payments body work, blocked and primer, paint reassembly..... I did alot of blocking and primer before they ever got the truck and the body work was real close as well... Sorry to hear about your bad luck but in the end you are probably better off!

I used to live in a Big City" but then moved to the "Country" about 5 years ago. Got tired of having to drive down 2 sets of Mountains to get estimates from Body Shops.
I wanted to kep my Money in the County in which I live in.
So I decided to get Estimates from the 3 Shops that were within 20 miles of me.
Thie shop I chose has been there for 9 years and has kept the same employess for that long also. Nicer bunch of guys, I couldn't find. Down to Earth and pulled no punches. When the Estimate went from $3500.00 up another $500.00 because they found "Worm Holes", he not only SHOWED me said holes, but also took pictures and e-mailed them to me. On the Passenger side, there must have been upwwards of 45 of them!!!