Heater Box Mod?

[11echo]

I'm putting in a BBC in my 64, so I'm going to need every inch I can get! BUT I'm looking at that heater box, it's sticking way out into the engine compartment. Anybody seen, heard, or know of a modification to put it under the dash and out of the way?

[Rap'em Pappy]

I used the heater box from 60-62. I put right angle elbows on the core inlets. Then ran the lines along the frame rails and up into the cab. All of it is inside the cab. That gave me a clean firewall.

[Sick5]

got any pic

[Captainfab]

You could probably retrofit a recirculating heater from a '60-'63 into your '64. They are completely under the dash, but they don't work as well as the Fresh Air heater....aka. the Deluxe Heater. There's one on ebay right now.....http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT

BTW the Deluxe Heater won't interfere at all with a big block.

Originally Posted by 11echo

I'm putting in a BBC in my 64, so I'm going to need every inch I can get! BUT I'm looking at that heater box, it's sticking way out into the engine compartment. Anybody seen, heard, or know of a modification to put it under the dash and out of the way?

[markeb01]

Here's a shot of what a recirculating or economy heater looks like from the engine side of the firewall. The only thing showing are the two heater hoses and a couple of attaching bolts.

[Tx Firefighter]

Here is mine out of the truck...



Firewall view...



I will warn you though, mine is all rebuilt with new core and blower motor and the performance of it absolutely sucks. Even temps in the 40s it's not near enough to make the cab comfortable.

[lakeroadster]

Since you live in Bakersfield CA you probably could deal with the ultra rare "heater delete" option.

Here is a link to a couple of small heaters used for Hot Rods. About as basic and simple as it gets.

http://www.southernrods.com/categori...ern-air-1.html

[bobcostas]

When you do the "heater delete" option, do you simply loop the coolant line? just take the heater out of the circuit?

[Apache63]

or try this maybe this helps ............


http://www.vintageair.com/catalog09/...talog%2023.pdf


Pat

[markeb01]

Originally Posted by bobcostas

When you do the "heater delete" option, do you simply loop the coolant line? just take the heater out of the circuit?

There was a time when I ran no heater in my truck. I simply put pipe plugs in the intake manifold and water pump eliminating the hoses completely, and reinstalled the factory block off plates on the firewall.

[lakeroadster]

Originally Posted by markeb01

Here's a shot of what a recirculating or economy heater looks like from the engine side of the firewall. The only thing showing are the two heater hoses and a couple of attaching bolts.

Mark,

I would love to axe the under hood heater also. A couple questions for ya:
1.0 With the economy heater do you have problems with the windshield fogging over on rainy humid days?
2.0 Am I correct in assuming the economy heater doesn't provide any outside fresh air mixture into the heating mix?

Wonder why a guy couldn't cut into the cowl vent from inside the truck, thus pulling fresh air in without having the heater on the firewall?

You know me, always ready to cut something up!

[Rogue]

I would imagine you would have more of an issue with the dual master and brake booster with a BBC.

[markeb01]

Originally Posted by lakeroadster

Mark,

I would love to axe the under hood heater also. A couple questions for ya:
1.0 With the economy heater do you have problems with the windshield fogging over on rainy humid days?
2.0 Am I correct in assuming the economy heater doesn't provide any outside fresh air mixture into the heating mix?

Wonder why a guy couldn't cut into the cowl vent from inside the truck, thus pulling fresh air in without having the heater on the firewall?

You know me, always ready to cut something up!

Hi John, 1.0 - the recirculating heater isn't up to the standards of a modern fresh air heater, but it does heat the cab up well enough to be comfortable in sub freezing weather. Living in Idaho the lowest temp I experienced was about 17 below zero, but the coldest I generally drove in was closer zero - 10 degrees above. At those temperatures the heater needed to be on full defrost setting and high speed on the fan motor. 95% of the time it would keep the windshield completely clear, and when the center started to fog I just cracked the driver side vent window and that did the trick. Sounds unpleasant in those temps but wasn't bad with the cab warm (and wearing a watch cap). In temperatures closer to 30-40, medium fan and 50/50 blend between defrost/floor was enough.

In high humidity/heavy rain the heater has a harder time keeping the center completely clear, but again cracking the vent window and running the fan on high speed eliminates the fogging. Perhaps the 1960 fresh air heater I had never worked correctly, but it didn't provide any noticeable improvement in defrosting ability over the economy heater. My truck came stock with no heater, and a deluxe fresh air model was the first heater I installed. It chronically smelled like antifreeze in the cab, even though everything (core/seals/gaskets/hoses) in the system were new and there were no detectable leaks. The smell is why I got rid of the fresh air heater, and the econo heater has never had an odor problem - so lack of stink was more important to me than heater/defroster capacity, and I was driving 36 miles each way every day for 9 years.

2.0 - Correct there is no fresh air intake with the recirculating heater. If a person was creative enough with sheetmetal I suppose you could install a fresh air valve on the face of the firewall plenum inside the cab and route this into a recirculating heater with a little fab work. If it were on the bottom of the plenum it would probably leak water when raining. This could in turn connect to a completely different heater, although I'm not sure what would be suitable.

In my search for a heater that would actually function in a northwest winter, I tried:

1. Fresh air 1960 oem unit (smelled).
2. Old Air A/C-heater system (completely ineffective).
3. An electric van auxilliary heater (useless).
4. A Vintage Air street rod heater (inadequate heat and direction control).
5. A Flexalite Mojave heater (decent heat, no direction control).

Of the last 4, the only one that did any good at all was the Mojave heater mounted on the floor between the seats. It kept my feet warm and nothing else.

The econo heater doesn't provide performance of a modern heater/defroster, but it worked well enough to drive the truck everyday in the winter, and now that it's retired to hobby duty I'm glad to have it instead of the fresh air breadbox on the firewall. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[lakeroadster]

Mark,

Thanks for the detailed breakdown, very informative.

[Tx Firefighter]

Originally Posted by markeb01

Hi John, 1.0 - the recirculating heater isn't up to the standards of a modern fresh air heater, but it does heat the cab up well enough to be comfortable in sub freezing weather. Living in Idaho the lowest temp I experienced was about 17 below zero, but the coldest I generally drove in was closer zero - 10 degrees above. At those temperatures the heater needed to be on full defrost setting and high speed on the fan motor. 95% of the time it would keep the windshield completely clear, and when the center started to fog I just cracked the driver side vent window and that did the trick. Sounds unpleasant in those temps but wasn't bad with the cab warm (and wearing a watch cap). In temperatures closer to 30-40, medium fan and 50/50 blend between defrost/floor was enough.

In high humidity/heavy rain the heater has a harder time keeping the center completely clear, but again cracking the vent window and running the fan on high speed eliminates the fogging. Perhaps the 1960 fresh air heater I had never worked correctly, but it didn't provide any noticeable improvement in defrosting ability over the economy heater. My truck came stock with no heater, and a deluxe fresh air model was the first heater I installed. It chronically smelled like antifreeze in the cab, even though everything (core/seals/gaskets/hoses) in the system were new and there were no detectable leaks. The smell is why I got rid of the fresh air heater, and the econo heater has never had an odor problem - so lack of stink was more important to me than heater/defroster capacity, and I was driving 36 miles each way every day for 9 years.

2.0 - Correct there is no fresh air intake with the recirculating heater. If a person was creative enough with sheetmetal I suppose you could install a fresh air valve on the face of the firewall plenum inside the cab and route this into a recirculating heater with a little fab work. If it were on the bottom of the plenum it would probably leak water when raining. This could in turn connect to a completely different heater, although I'm not sure what would be suitable.

In my search for a heater that would actually function in a northwest winter, I tried:

1. Fresh air 1960 oem unit (smelled).
2. Old Air A/C-heater system (completely ineffective).
3. An electric van auxilliary heater (useless).
4. A Vintage Air street rod heater (inadequate heat and direction control).
5. A Flexalite Mojave heater (decent heat, no direction control).

Of the last 4, the only one that did any good at all was the Mojave heater mounted on the floor between the seats. It kept my feet warm and nothing else.

The econo heater doesn't provide performance of a modern heater/defroster, but it worked well enough to drive the truck everyday in the winter, and now that it's retired to hobby duty I'm glad to have it instead of the fresh air breadbox on the firewall. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

I guess I need to figure out what is wrong with mine then. At say 50 degrees, the cab will get mildly warm with the heater on high after about 20 minutes. At 35 degrees, it will never warm enough to even notice it is even on when set to high for half an hour.

[markeb01]

Back when I commuted every day I'd always change my 160 degree summer thermostat to a 190 version for the winter months. Having 30 degree warmer coolant made a big difference. Didn't think to mention that.

[protrash64]

Originally Posted by Rogue

I would imagine you would have more of an issue with the dual master and brake booster with a BBC.

Nope, fits no problem.

[GMC4wheels71]

Originally Posted by markeb01

Hi John, 1.0 - the recirculating heater isn't up to the standards of a modern fresh air heater, but it does heat the cab up well enough to be comfortable in sub freezing weather. Living in Idaho the lowest temp I experienced was about 17 below zero, but the coldest I generally drove in was closer zero - 10 degrees above. At those temperatures the heater needed to be on full defrost setting and high speed on the fan motor. 95% of the time it would keep the windshield completely clear, and when the center started to fog I just cracked the driver side vent window and that did the trick. Sounds unpleasant in those temps but wasn't bad with the cab warm (and wearing a watch cap). In temperatures closer to 30-40, medium fan and 50/50 blend between defrost/floor was enough.

In high humidity/heavy rain the heater has a harder time keeping the center completely clear, but again cracking the vent window and running the fan on high speed eliminates the fogging. Perhaps the 1960 fresh air heater I had never worked correctly, but it didn't provide any noticeable improvement in defrosting ability over the economy heater. My truck came stock with no heater, and a deluxe fresh air model was the first heater I installed. It chronically smelled like antifreeze in the cab, even though everything (core/seals/gaskets/hoses) in the system were new and there were no detectable leaks. The smell is why I got rid of the fresh air heater, and the econo heater has never had an odor problem - so lack of stink was more important to me than heater/defroster capacity, and I was driving 36 miles each way every day for 9 years.

2.0 - Correct there is no fresh air intake with the recirculating heater. If a person was creative enough with sheetmetal I suppose you could install a fresh air valve on the face of the firewall plenum inside the cab and route this into a recirculating heater with a little fab work. If it were on the bottom of the plenum it would probably leak water when raining. This could in turn connect to a completely different heater, although I'm not sure what would be suitable.

In my search for a heater that would actually function in a northwest winter, I tried:

1. Fresh air 1960 oem unit (smelled).
2. Old Air A/C-heater system (completely ineffective).
3. An electric van auxilliary heater (useless).
4. A Vintage Air street rod heater (inadequate heat and direction control).
5. A Flexalite Mojave heater (decent heat, no direction control).

Of the last 4, the only one that did any good at all was the Mojave heater mounted on the floor between the seats. It kept my feet warm and nothing else.

The econo heater doesn't provide performance of a modern heater/defroster, but it worked well enough to drive the truck everyday in the winter, and now that it's retired to hobby duty I'm glad to have it instead of the fresh air breadbox on the firewall. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

This has to be the best, most comprehensive post on heater options and performance I have ever seen. Thank you.

[knuckledragger]

I have the deluxe heater and dual master power brakes with a bbc in my 65.I am using the stock height valve covers.No clearance issues at all and I can remove the valve covers fairly easily in the truck.

[66farmer]

Originally Posted by markeb01

Hi John, 1.0 - the recirculating heater isn't up to the standards of a modern fresh air heater, but it does heat the cab up well enough to be comfortable in sub freezing weather. Living in Idaho the lowest temp I experienced was about 17 below zero, but the coldest I generally drove in was closer zero - 10 degrees above. At those temperatures the heater needed to be on full defrost setting and high speed on the fan motor. 95% of the time it would keep the windshield completely clear, and when the center started to fog I just cracked the driver side vent window and that did the trick. Sounds unpleasant in those temps but wasn't bad with the cab warm (and wearing a watch cap). In temperatures closer to 30-40, medium fan and 50/50 blend between defrost/floor was enough.

In high humidity/heavy rain the heater has a harder time keeping the center completely clear, but again cracking the vent window and running the fan on high speed eliminates the fogging. Perhaps the 1960 fresh air heater I had never worked correctly, but it didn't provide any noticeable improvement in defrosting ability over the economy heater. My truck came stock with no heater, and a deluxe fresh air model was the first heater I installed. It chronically smelled like antifreeze in the cab, even though everything (core/seals/gaskets/hoses) in the system were new and there were no detectable leaks. The smell is why I got rid of the fresh air heater, and the econo heater has never had an odor problem - so lack of stink was more important to me than heater/defroster capacity, and I was driving 36 miles each way every day for 9 years.

2.0 - Correct there is no fresh air intake with the recirculating heater. If a person was creative enough with sheetmetal I suppose you could install a fresh air valve on the face of the firewall plenum inside the cab and route this into a recirculating heater with a little fab work. If it were on the bottom of the plenum it would probably leak water when raining. This could in turn connect to a completely different heater, although I'm not sure what would be suitable.

In my search for a heater that would actually function in a northwest winter, I tried:

1. Fresh air 1960 oem unit (smelled).
2. Old Air A/C-heater system (completely ineffective).
3. An electric van auxilliary heater (useless).
4. A Vintage Air street rod heater (inadequate heat and direction control).
5. A Flexalite Mojave heater (decent heat, no direction control).

Of the last 4, the only one that did any good at all was the Mojave heater mounted on the floor between the seats. It kept my feet warm and nothing else.

The econo heater doesn't provide performance of a modern heater/defroster, but it worked well enough to drive the truck everyday in the winter, and now that it's retired to hobby duty I'm glad to have it instead of the fresh air breadbox on the firewall. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Mark
Thanks for the heater info, I'm sold on the heater you used. I'm going to try to find the heater could you tell me what to look for (years, heater control 2,3,or 4 handel) any thing else you can think of to help me in my search.
Thanks
Keith

[LT1 Burb]

I got rid of my deluxe hater and installed a vintage air unit and it has a great blower and heater in it.

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by knuckledragger

I have the deluxe heater and dual master power brakes with a bbc in my 65.I am using the stock height valve covers.No clearance issues at all and I can remove the valve covers fairly easily in the truck.

Same here. Only issue I have is that a 13-14" air cleaner hits it. I've got a K&N velocity stack with a 5" tall filter that fits great.