tranny swap

[henedjer]

QUESTION! I want to swap out my turbo 350 trans to a 5 speed manual trans.Is there any GM parts I can get used to get this done What will fit? I need everything from the motor back bell housing flywheel clutch parts and trans.Antbody kmow?

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

There is a boat load of info on this swap. However most all use the rather weak T-5 trans. A SBC that makes over 300/300 can and will break this trans. However you can find the complete set ups from firebirds/ Z28 ( stronger units) or from astro vans and s 10 trucks. I had a huge sheet on the trans numbers to come up with gear ratios. Again the Z28/firebird is the best best for gearing and strength....

Is the budget the big issue?? if not I run a Tremec TKO 600 and they will slip in with very little work and you can move the shifter or buy it moved and you have a extremely strong trans....

The Zf6 trans is a option but harder to deal with and more money than buying a TKO.

Here is a pic of my trans in the truck , shifter location can be a issue with some seats. In the pic you can see how far back the normal t-5 shifter is located.

Myself cannot say enough good about the TKO set up I have it may not be for everyone however I have owned several of the T-5 trannys and they are not a performance item... If you can break them with a 235 hp 305 TPI engine think of what a basic crate 350 will do to them I did the shifter swap myself and would not say that it was easy by any means as when I did mine they where new to the market and they where not being sold with shifter in front location. That has changed and will save you money as the kit to move it was 500 or so!!! Yep I got a bunch of new tranny parts gathering dust. I opted for the .64 overdrive and with a 3.90 rear gear around town in the first 4 is a blast and when you hit the hwy, pull 5th and watch the tach drop by 46%.. Best of both worlds. I cruise the truck at hwy speeds for hours on end without any issue. Running 80 MPH or so....


http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...t-5+trans+swap

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...archid=2007432 ( search link)



The first feature means that the T5 can provide a solution for the miserable 3.90 and 4.11 gearing used on most early GM pickups. T5's come in two different bell housing bolt patterns - GM and Ford. The Ford pattern was also used on AMC and Nissan. Many internal parts are interchangeable, but there are two basic "grades" of T5 : World Class (WC) and Non World Class (NWC). WC is a later version with many upgrades for smoother operation and improved reliability.

There are several T5 applications to consider. Those used in the GM S-10 pickups from 1983 to 1987 are good candidates, but do require some modification to work with the earlier clutch and flywheel packages. For an excellent report on the details of this swap, see Grant Galbraith's article at Stovebolt.com. Also check out Robert French's Solution using the Vega clutch hub.

Here is some information you can use to identify which S10 T5 is right for your truck. These entries were taken from a variety of sources. Some were superceded by later numbers. The 4X4 variants are highlighted in green as they can be easily identified by the transfer case instead of the tailshaft, although internal parts of the tranny are the same.

The BW model number can usually be found on a bar code tag somewhere on the main body of the transmission.

These are all NWC transmissions.

BW Model
Original application
Engine
1st gear
2nd gear
3rd Gear
4th gear
5th gear










1352-005
1984 - 86 Chevette
1.6 L4
3.76
2.37
1.49
1.00
0.86

1352-010
1982 S10
all
4.03
2.37
1.49
1.00
0.86

1352-012
1982 S10
2.4 Diesel
4.03
2.37
1.49
1.00
0.86

1352-013
1983 "T" truck
4 & 6 cyl
4.03
2.37
1.49
1.00
0.86

1352-014
1983 "T" truck
4 cyl all
4.03
2.37
1.49
1.00
0.86

1352-033
1983 S10
2.0 L4, 2.8 V6
4.03
2.37
1.49
1.00
0.86

1352-042
1984 - 85 S10
2.8 V6
4.03
2.37
1.49
1.00
0.76

1352-043
1984 - 85 S10
2.8 V6
4.03
2.37
1.49
1.00
0.76

1352-055
1984 S10
1.9 L4 Isuzu
4.03
2.37
1.49
1.00
0.86

1352-056
1984 S10
2.0 L4
4.03
2.37
1.49
1.00
0.86

1352-057
1984 S10
1.9 L4 Isuzu
4.03
2.37
1.49
1.00
0.86

1352-058
1984 S10
2.0 L4, 2.8 V6
4.03
2.37
1.49
1.00
0.86

1352-101
1985 Minivan
4.3 V6
3.50
2.14
1.39
1.00
0.73

1352-102
1985 - 86 Minivan
2.5 L4, 2.8 V6
3.76
2.18
1.42
1.00
0.72

1352-107
1985 S10
2.2 L4 Diesel
3.76
2.18
1.42
1.00
0.72

1352-108
1985 - 86 S10
2.5 L4, 2.8 V6
3.76
2.18
1.42
1.00
0.72

1352-110
1985 S10
2.5 L4, 2.8 V6
3.76
2.18
1.42
1.00
0.72

1352-136
1985 S10
2.2 L4 Diesel
3.76
2.18
1.42
1.00
0.72

1352-145
1985 - 86 S10
2.5 L4, 2.8 V6
3.76
2.18
1.42
1.00
0.72

1352-146
1985 S10
2.8 V6
4.03
2.37
1.49
1.00
0.76

1352-148
1985 Minivan
4.3 V6
3.50
2.14
1.39
1.00
0.73

1352-149
1986 Minivan
4.3 V6
3.50
2.14
1.39
1.00
0.73


So, which tranny is right for you? That depends. The major differences are in the ratio spacing and first/OD ratios. The original truck 3-speed had a 1st gear ratio of around 3:1 and the 4-speeds (Granny gear) were about 7:1. So if you are replacing a 4-speed, ANYTHING would be an improvement. Some users have reported that the 4.03 1st gear models are too low for normal street use with a 235. If you haul a heavy load or do any towing, you may need the 4.03 1st. But tire size matters too. Most of the S10 trucks used relatively small tires, so changing to a taller (larger diameter) tire will offset this somewhat. A taller tire will result in a higher (lower numerically) effective ratio in all 5 forward speeds. The lower 5th speed ratios will give you higher, quieter top gear cruising speed due to lower engine RPM.

Another T5 option is the Camaro / Firebird "F-body" transmissions. These are desirable for the better ratio spacing, higher first gear and ease of adapting to the early bell housing and clutch, but the shifter location is all wrong for an old pickup. Click on the link below for more info on the F-body T5.

I see so many questions on installing S-10 T-5 transmissions into old trucks I thought I'd write down my experience and offer it as tech reference. Instructions are for installing in a Advance Design model truck ('47 to '53) but I think would be very similar for other years. This is not a straight forward install, particularly the clutch -- beginners may not want to tackle this swap.

The tricky parts of this swap are putting together a clutch package and finding the right ratio's tranny for your purpose. These trannys don't have a great reputation with muscle car enthusiasts who run them with V-8's, but they seem to be adequate for a 6. Mine has worked fine for 15 K now behind a 235.

Application sources

The T-5 was used in many applications: from 5.0 Mustangs to Jeeps to Vegas. They have the poorest reputation from the first two applications. The one you want for your truck should be from a 2 WD S-10 as the shifter in these variants is located nearest the front. It'll make you as happy as finding a great cheap car insurance deal. It will locate the shifter about seven inches behind the stock 4-speed in AD trucks. Other variants will locate the shifter in the bench seat. You can use another variant and change the shifter location by bolting the tail shaft housing from an S-10 to it. The shifter is part of this housing so it will be located in the S-10 position. This seems to be your only option if you want a close ratio box from a V-8.

Ratios

The close ratio uses a 2.95 first gear and is best if you want performance set up. 2.95 is what the stock three-speed uses for first in the '50. The info I got from the Chevy dealer shows 2 ratios available from '85 to '90 in the S-10 though there may be others: ML2 code in the glove box is 4.03 first and 2.37 second; ML3 is 3.76 first and 2.18 second.

I use an S-10 box with a 4.03 first. 4.03 is great for occasional steep driveways or creeping in a field but I usually start off in 2nd gear, which is 2.37. This will require some slipping the clutch at takeoff but works good for me. However, it will not give you a great launch if you want to do stoplight competition.

Another option is a box with 3.55 first gear. To me, this seems to be in-between the two and a compromise but I have heard some say they like it with a 3.73 rear. I prefer a 3.90 rear which will cruise 65 at 2100 RPM but will also pull hills OK in OD at 50. Also watch your OD ratios. I ended up with one early model box that had a .9 OD ratio. Hardly worth shifting into OD. Most are .72 but best to mark the input and output shafts and count revolutions.

An early box with mechanical speedo is a plus. I hear it's very expensive to change from electronic to mechanical speedo drive. I find S-10 box's plentiful for $50 to $100 at swaps, but the V-8 variants with 2.95 first seem to run more, around $200. Junkyards are very expensive places to get these. If time is on your side, shop around. Penny Saver-type papers are also a good source.

Before you install it...

After, or preferably before you purchase, it's good to take a peak inside before you install. You can't just pop a cover off to inspect these, you must pull off the tail shaft housing and shifter to get the top cover off. As long as you're doing this you may as well at least re-shim the end play off the main shaft. They use tapered roller bearings and any end play will result in sloppy bearing clearance as in sideways play. One might consider bearings and synchro's at this time also. Instructions are in Chilton's at your local library. Also good time to change the speedo drive gear if necessary. You might not have to do this if you're using a 3.73 or taller rear but I did with the 3.90. The S-10 used only one drive gear (9 teeth I think) but I found the Camaro T-5 had the right gear. I used GM P/N 14071731 (7 teeth drive gear) and 14077086 (driven gear) for my ratio of 3.90 and tire size of 28.8 inches. This will vary for different applications.

Also remove the C-clip from the rear of the output shaft. I don't know the purpose of it but found it interfered when I used a particular drive shaft; could not slide it far enough forward to install. Some simple mods will need to be done to the tranny. Ream or drill the 4 mounting holes to open them up from the metric size to half inch. You will notice the input shaft, the pilot part of the shaft and the front bearing retainer are longer than the stock tranny's. I cut about 1/4 of an inch off the pilot to match the stock one. This still leaves the overall length of the shaft a little long but was not a problem. You can drive the pilot bushing in further if it does interfere. I also cut the bearing retainer to match one from a stock tranny.

And now, the Tricky Part...

I found the tricky part was putting a clutch package together. Notice the splines are shorter than your stock tranny. They are also different size and number. S-10's are likely 1-inch, 14 teeth, V-8 boxes are fine spline. Mine was 1-inch 14 so I used a 11-inch flywheel and an '85 Astro Van 11- inch disc with a pressure plate from a small block. Used a throw out bearing from an SB but for a cast iron fork. Use the stock fork and clutch linkage. This setup put me within about .100 of running out of clutch splines on the input shaft. Enough to dis-engage but barely. I think if I ran out of splines I would have ground down the clutch disc hub a little. This is a gray area and I recommend setting everything up without a pressure plate installed so you can see what's going on for clearance. I found some Astro Van discs very different from others. Any other make disc could work as long as it matches your input shaft and is the right thickness.

The gearbox is a couple inches longer than the stock one so you will need a shorter drive shaft. For my '50 with the '55 rear I found an Astro Van shaft fit perfectly with a Napa 348 cross over U joint for the rear. Again, this may vary for your application. Also needed a longer speedo cable. I've run the T-5's and Saginaws with no trans mount several thousand miles with no problems, the trucks mount on the bell housing. It did however make me nervous with aluminum case sticking so far out in space so I fabricated a cross member from the original truck's cross member. I cut and welded a recessed pocket in it, also cut and welded in tubes where the bolts pass through the vertical part of the cross. I bolted the mount to the tranny first and then slid the cross under it and bolted it on. Again perhaps not necessary but makes me feel better.

Fools the best of 'em

Most people at shows think I have a stock 4 speed. I used a 4-speed shifter welded onto the S-10 shifter. This does make for a long throw but I've heard of people reoperating the shifter pivot to address this. I acquired a Hurst after-market shifter with a short throw I plan on installing.

With the T-5 I can cruise 65 mph at 2100 rpm and still pull hills at 50mph without having to shift out of OD. I don't hesitate to drive to a show or vacation hundreds of miles away. 65 to 70 is about all I feel comfortable doing in the truck and I still prefer a state highway to the interstate. Ratios are a gray area of this article. I make recommendations based on what I like and others may prefer different ratios depending on geographic location, engine, cam, how you plan on driving, towing, importance of gas mileage vs. performance.

GM F-Body

GM used the T-5 in F-body cars behind all engines. In general, the I4/V6 got the following ratios:

1st – 3.50 2nd – 2.14 3rd – 1.36 4th – 1.00 5th – 0.78

Although some 4-cyl cars got the 3.76 gearset as used in the S10 & a few V6 cars actually got the 4.03 gearset.

The V8 F-bodies typically got the following Gearset:

1st – 2.95 2nd – 1.94 3rd – 1.34 4th – 1.00 5th – 0.73

It’s worth noting again that the ’93-95 F-body V6 cars got a Ford case with a GM input shaft. There were no V8 T-5 during these years.

Tag Numbers

V8 2.95 NWC – 028, 062, 070, 072, 157, 185
V8 2.95 WC – 159, 160, 175, 176, 195, 196
3.50 NWC – 015, 027, 061, 156
3.76 NWC – 054, 083, 158
4.03 NWC – 181
4.03 WC – 177
NWC Other (unk app/gears) – 071, 084, 150, 166, 178, 182, 183
WC Other (unk app/gears) – 197, 212, 213, 214
WC Ford Pattern – 210, 245, 247

http://www.f-body.org/gears/ here is a gear calc program that you can play with as well..



This is only a small amount of the info I gathered when I was looking but like I said my past history with them made me go the TKO route.

[chevy_mike]

Another option, which is stronger than a T5 but less expensive than a Tremec is a Jeep/Dodge AX15 5 speed. You use a Novak adapter, which allows this to bolt up to any GM bellhousing, using the stock GM 10 spline clutch.

I have been gathering parts for this swap and hope to do it in the next month or so. Just another idea. BTW, I have used the TKO600 before and if I had the funds, hands down would be what I would put in today!!! That trans rocked!

[raycow]

You are getting a lot of good info here. I put an S-10 T-5 in my 60 and have had no trouble with it, but I have only a stock 305 for power.

The Tremec is clearly the best choice for strength and ease of installation, and loses only on cost. A T-56 would cost less than a TKO to buy, but the parts to adapt it would run up the installed price.

Lastly you might consider an NV3500. It is stronger than the T-5 and less expensive than the T-56, but presents some installation challenges. One of the bigger hiccups is that it comes with an electric speedo drive only.

Ray

[henedjer]

WOW,didn't expect to get so much good info,THANKS!!! I decided last nite to pull the TH350 and go back with a 700R4 for the extra gear this unit also has a lock-up converter all in all the easiest swap just have to relocate tranny mount and cut driveshaft just worry @ the 305 having enough power to pull the 276:1 gear but it does have a edelbrock cam/manifold carb combo maybe makes 200HP on a good day.If not 350/350 will go in!!

[raycow]

Originally Posted by henedjer

just worry @ the 305 having enough power to pull the 276:1 gear but it does have a edelbrock cam/manifold carb combo maybe makes 200HP on a good day.If not 350/350 will go in!!

With my T-5 in 5th the effective gear is 2.69 with 29" tires. My 305 probably makes less power than yours, but it has no problem pulling the truck on normal freeway grades.

Ray