Modern Day Muscle Question

[AusTx68]

Not sure if I'm posting this in the right area but here it goes..

Today my neighbor took me around the block in his 2010 Dodge Challenger SRT8. The car is rated at 425 HP/420 ft-lbs torque. The rearend is geared at 3.06 and it weighs a portly 4100 lbs. Looking at these specs I wouldn't expect it to run as well as it did. Frankly, the thing is a beast!

My truck is running a 383 putting out 405 HP/445 ft-lbs torque, 3:73 rearend (non-posi), 700r4, and weighs approx 3800 lbs.

On paper I would think my truck would have greater SOT(seat of the pants) feel during accelleration. This is definetely not the case. Not even close..

Why is this??

[Robertjust777]

also curious cause i pretty much tried to build my truck to beat the new camaros mustangs and challengers.

i have a 70 chevy c10
350 4 bolt main
forged Crank
pro top line aluminum heads 72cc chamber
all retro roller rocker
rubens racing cam 292/300 @50. 540/555 lift flat top pistions
but also have a 750 holley dp proform throttle body
aluminum fuel tank holley blue electric fuel pump.
compression ratio is about 9:5-1
mallory unilite disb. with msd 6al box
12 bolt posi rear end 3.7.3 gears
pete jackson gear drive uhm i havnt got it to the dyno yet or the drag strip but i do kno the other vechiles are around 12 sec cars

[Pont406]

I know it's a little different but I ran a Challanger in a 1/8th mile. I dont know what year it was. He did 9.005 at 81.59mph to mine 8.633 at 79.74 mph.

[Hottrucks]

one thing I have learned over the years is don't judge your own stuff because you suck at it??? ever get into someones car/truck and ask how do you drive this thing becasue the front end is all worn out and they look at you like your nuts because it has worn out slowly and they didn't notice?? if your going to use the seat of the pants tech. (which is what I use) try it with something in the other lane.....I mean at the track of corse?

then theres the issue of makeing your truck stick and handle like a new car??? trust me I have the Caddy in mine so torque isn't an issue making a 15" wide tire is a differnt story??

[lakeroadster]

Originally Posted by AusTx68

Not sure if I'm posting this in the right area but here it goes..

Today my neighbor took me around the block in his 2010 Dodge Challenger SRT8. The car is rated at 425 HP/420 ft-lbs torque. The rearend is geared at 3.06 and it weighs a portly 4100 lbs. Looking at these specs I wouldn't expect it to run as well as it did. Frankly, the thing is a beast!

My truck is running a 383 putting out 405 HP/445 ft-lbs torque, 3:73 rearend (non-posi), 700r4, and weighs approx 3800 lbs.

On paper I would think my truck would have greater SOT(seat of the pants) feel during accelleration. This is definetely not the case. Not even close..

Why is this??

I think a lot of it is likely suspension. The new Challenger gets the power to the pavement in a less chaotic fashion. I am betting it was quieter too. All this gives the seat of the pants feeling of awesome power. Squats and hauls ass, compares to our trucks that jump, scream and haul ass.

if any of that makes sense??

[djracer]

I think the biggest difference is the difference in the passengers seat and the drivers seat. If your numbers are correct and your truck hooks at the track you should be able to spank the challenger.

[ripdog28]

Going into the car with low expectations is one reason. Hooking up and not spinning is another. And like DJ said, passenger seat is one. Noise level is a great factor. Listen to our trucks compared to the DODGE RAM SRT/10. that truck is quiet as hell. if you just listen to the sound clip of that compared to a 400hp 69 truck, i bet all of us would say the 400hp was faster based on the sound. IMO, new power is just computer controlled to make it hook and not spin.

[djracer]

Just think of how fast and fly your truck could be if you spent the same cash on it.

[stich626]

the newer cars first gear is lower..
3.08 but smaller tires over your 3:73 with taller tires..
and if you spent the time to R &d your tune like the faxctory did, you's will be faster..

[Robertjust777]

what did you think about me taking on the new mustangs camaros or challengers. ikno the only real way to kno is to go heads up against them at the drag strip... but havnt go it to the track yet :/

i have a 70 chevy c10
350 4 bolt main
forged Crank
pro top line aluminum heads 72cc chamber
all retro roller rocker
rubens racing cam 292/300 @50. 540/555 lift flat top pistions
but also have a 750 holley dp proform throttle body
aluminum fuel tank holley blue electric fuel pump.
compression ratio is about 9:5-1
mallory unilite disb. with msd 6al box
12 bolt posi rear end 3.7.3 gears
pete jackson gear drive uhm i havnt got it to the dyno yet or the drag strip
but i do kno the other vechiles are around mid 12 sec cars

[87oldie]

The only way to know for sure is to take it to the track. Ive noticed some cars have smoother pull then others.

[Robertjust777]

ya i know ive been to the track but not with this build

[AusTx68]

You guys made a lot of good points. I guess the only way to really know is to run him. Unfortunately we have no tracks nearby but we have plenty of open country roads

I have to wait until my replacement engine gets installed (long story), tuned and broken-in. That also gives me time to add the Eaton posi. I May even step up to 4:10 gears. I'm thinking the lower gear will help launch my 20" wheels. Does that make sense?

[djracer]

posi is a must.

[53burb]

You also got to remember that his is rated differently. His 425 HP/420 TQ is rated at the rear wheels. So, in reality, he is probably closer to 475 HP & TQ after going thru the tranny & rearend.
Your numbers are most likely the engine alone. Correct me if I am wrong. To get a true comparison of HP & TQ, you would need to have a chassis dyno completed to get rear wheel horsepower (RWHP).

[Super73]

I don't think the factory rates their cars/trucks at the tires.



But curroius to how you know what your truck makes. Has the motor been on an engine dyno or the truck on a chasis dyno?

[AusTx68]

Originally Posted by Super73

I don't think the factory rates their cars/trucks at the tires.

But curroius to how you know what your truck makes. Has the motor been on an engine dyno or the truck on a chasis dyno?

I agree, its doubtful Dodge advertises using RWHP numbers. Although I once had a BMW sales guy tell me that's how their cars are rated. Then again, he was in sales.

My engine was rated on an engine dyno using long tube headers. I'm running mid-length so the numbers will not be exact.

[53burb]

I stand corrected. I looked it up & found this. Thanks Super73 for bringing this to my attention!...

Faced with this reality, along with the pressures of the safety and environmental lobby, domestic manufacturers decided it was time to abandon the gross rating system. In its place they adopted the SAE net rating methodology, described by SAE standard J1349. "Net" horsepower ratings are still made with the engine on a test stand, but with stock ignition timing, carburetion, exhaust, and accessories -- in short, a closer approximation of how much power an engine produces as actually installed in the car. (SAE net horespower does NOT, contrary to some assumptions, measure horsepower at the drive wheels; both gross and net ratings are at the flywheel, and don't reflect power losses in the drivetrain.)

[Ryan Hubbard]

Modern cars are rated at the crank but with all accessories on and running on the fead. So the air is on and the power steering and water pump and alternator.
Posted via Mobile Device

[383 Stroker]

The SRT8 Challenger runs low 13's in the 1/4 mile... It's a quick car. A friend of mine had a 06 SRT8 Charger and we had it up to 170mph...

[Super73]

Austx,

Where does you motor make peak power?
What trans do you have?
Gear ratio?
Tire size?
Converter size?

Is your buddies car an auto or manual?

With out knowing enough about the SRT8's, I;d guess all the above could play a major role..

[shawnt]

Originally Posted by Robertjust777

what did you think about me taking on the new mustangs camaros or challengers. ikno the only real way to kno is to go heads up against them at the drag strip... but havnt go it to the track yet :/

i have a 70 chevy c10
350 4 bolt main
forged Crank
pro top line aluminum heads 72cc chamber
all retro roller rocker
rubens racing cam 292/300 @50. 540/555 lift flat top pistions
but also have a 750 holley dp proform throttle body
aluminum fuel tank holley blue electric fuel pump.
compression ratio is about 9:5-1
mallory unilite disb. with msd 6al box
12 bolt posi rear end 3.7.3 gears
pete jackson gear drive uhm i havnt got it to the dyno yet or the drag strip
but i do kno the other vechiles are around mid 12 sec cars

You sure those cam numbers are @ .050? If so that thing is huge and I wouldn't think that would work real well with the rest of your setup.

[Robertjust777]

ill check my cam card but i believe so maybe i entered it wrong ill let you know
ya that was total degrees of duration
234/242 @ 0.50

[Super73]

I'm going to guess those are total duration numbers as well.

[Robertjust777]

yah that was degrees of duration. its 234/242 @ 0.50 centerline at 104. lobe center 108