03-22-2011, 10:45 AM | #101 | |
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Re: Pipe Notch
Quote:
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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03-22-2011, 11:06 AM | #102 | ||
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Re: Pipe Notch
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If you look at the moment of inertia calc. below you will see the height of the member is to the 3rd power. It is the overwhelming driving factor for strength. Small changes in height therefore make drastic strength changes.Properties of various sections. The strength of a c-channel isn't doubled by adding a boxing plate. Sure it helps, but not nearly as much as you might think:Bolted Notches Bolted notches do not transfer loads nearly as well as welded in notches. I personally would not use a bolted in notch unless it was welded in after installation, but I am conservative and I have a welder. I always prefer welding instead of bolting when it is an option. Having designed and worked at fabrication shops since the early 1980's and witnessing first hand failed bolted joints I just don't see the need for risking it on a part that will never really need to be unbolted.With regards to other "design specific" questions, due to liability issues, I don't want to get into any member specific designs other than the ones I have already looked at. John Last edited by lakeroadster; 03-22-2011 at 06:05 PM. |
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03-22-2011, 11:25 AM | #103 | |
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Re: Pipe Notch
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This is why I have opted to skip the bolt-in c-notch on my Dually & build a short step notch using the same amount of material above the frame that is being removed where the c-notch is going.
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. Last edited by SCOTI; 03-22-2011 at 11:26 AM. |
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03-22-2011, 12:01 PM | #104 | |
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Re: Pipe Notch
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To clarify I used coil overs that are behind the rear axle, so the notch is not absorbing the same kind of stresses, true? love to here your thoughts on this. My notch is boxed but no re-enforcing plate on the outside. Mike
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I'd rather attempt something great and fail.. than try something ordinary and succeed. Norman Vincent Peale Project: Barn Raising http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=414961 Project: 30 Be Low https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...d.php?t=830583 Last edited by Mike Bradbury; 03-22-2011 at 12:02 PM. |
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03-22-2011, 12:12 PM | #105 |
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Re: Pipe Notch
Is the notch above really gonna gain you much drop? I would like to do this too but go at least half way into the frame so its not too deep of a notch.
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03-22-2011, 12:40 PM | #106 | |
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Re: Pipe Notch
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First things first.... neat set-up. I have admired your work. How does the truck ride, smooth or harsh? I have coil overs on my Model A Tudor fenderless hot rod.. it's pretty darn harsh.Ok, back to topic. You are right, location of the spring (lower fulcrum) changes the analysis in your instance.The FEA I used for the previous posts assumes a factory stock standard coil spring / trailing arm type suspension, circa '65 (I have been told that the suspensions from 63-72 were all very similar) and assumes a bending moment from hauling and towing loads. If hauling and towing loads are not present the trailing arm suspension frame has almost no load at the rear axle. Last edited by lakeroadster; 03-22-2011 at 01:14 PM. |
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03-23-2011, 11:18 AM | #107 |
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Re: Pipe Notch
When I started it was a C20 with the big unsprung weight a Dana 60, and very stiff leaf springs. So it is hard to say how much better the ride is from a stock C10. I think the ride is very smooth and drivable. The other day I needed to get out in front of other cars while we were at a stoplight because I had a right turn coming up soon after the light. I punched it at green and laid a nice consistent peel with no chatter or hop until I got full traction. I need to put a sway bar in the back but still in the design phase.
O.K. back to the question, I used the Sphon spherical joint and there is very little bind during articulation. The suspension only moves 3 up and 3 down so with that range it has no problem with binding. I think I will weld up a fish plate to the outside of the frame just to give it a little extra strength. As you can see the notch is pretty mild and I still have a six in drop in the back. Not sure if the C20's have more of an arch in the frame over the axle or not. I might have been able to get away with not notching the frame but then I might have contacted my axle on a severe bump. Mike
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I'd rather attempt something great and fail.. than try something ordinary and succeed. Norman Vincent Peale Project: Barn Raising http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=414961 Project: 30 Be Low https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...d.php?t=830583 Last edited by Mike Bradbury; 03-23-2011 at 11:20 AM. |
03-23-2011, 06:49 PM | #108 |
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Re: Pipe Notch
Boy those Sphon spherical joints are the cats meow, that's great, and grease fittings too! The extended sleeves should allow for more articulation then you will ever need.
Thanks for posting up the photo. |
03-23-2011, 07:16 PM | #109 |
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Re: Pipe Notch
That's what I'm using as well. They're the only way to go if using a solid T/A vs the original I-beam style IMO.
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
04-03-2011, 10:48 AM | #110 |
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Re: Pipe Notch
The information provided by lakeroadster is now immortalized in our FAQ. Thanks for your awesome write up John.
To view this FAQ go here- Frame Notch Based On Strength
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04-03-2011, 10:59 AM | #111 |
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Re: Pipe Notch
Truck is sooo nice
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04-03-2011, 09:17 PM | #112 |
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Re: Pipe Notch
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04-03-2011, 09:29 PM | #113 |
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Re: Pipe Notch
Let me know when you are ready to do another one. The FAQ forum is undergoing a complete frame off restoration. We are looking for some new FAQ's to compliment the old ones already there.
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12-09-2015, 06:32 PM | #114 |
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Re: Pipe Notch
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03-22-2016, 12:50 PM | #115 |
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Re: Pipe Notch
I am in the process of attempting that style of notch. I will post some pictures when I hopefully accomplish the task.
It's being done to a 68 so the frame rails are quite different in the area that this notch is done at. It's not a nice straight shot as shown in the FEA but I beleive is doable. I am also using 4" x 2" x 0.25" instead of the 3.5" x 2.5" x 0.25" shown. It should give me about a 4" drop when I am done. Regards, Adam |
07-13-2016, 01:33 PM | #116 |
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Re: Pipe Notch
lakeroadster, I liked the link with c-notch strengths compared to stock. It would seem to me that once the bed is mounted and bolted up, the frame would have more support?.... Are your % figures with the bed on or off? thanks
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07-13-2016, 03:12 PM | #117 |
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Re: Pipe Notch
lakeroadster's account was suspended a looong time ago so do not expect any replies from him....
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