Trying To Finish Shop!

[ryans69chevy]

My dad and I are trying to finish off our shop that was built 11 years ago. It's a double car garage in the back yard 24'X24' or 24'X26' something like that. We have a walk in door and an actual garage door. It would not be able to fit a lift, it isn't that tall! Right now we just have an extension cord running from the house to the shop which is a lil annoying when I want to mow. We also have an old 49 chevy 3100 that is already disassembled.

We want to add power, insulate it, install a heater, and put plywood on the walls and ceiling instead of sheetrock, because of potential abuse.

I'm wondering what we would need to do to compensate for the insulation, would we need ventilation of the roof to let the heat escape in the summer so it doesn't get humid? Or what all would we need to do to get it insulated?

I really would love to add some coating on the floor, but being that this shop is 11 years old it's had it's share of spills. There are some pretty big spots of oil in different spots of the floor. If we were to add some coating to the floor is that gonna be something that would cover the oil up? I realize we would have to scrub the oil stains until they are perfect and then some more, but I doubt we would be able to get all the oil stain out. So would a coating make that oil spill invisible per-say? Or would one notice it immediately?

Thanks for any advice!

[NONHOG]

My opinion would be skip the floor coating which you could always do later and spend money "best bang for the buck" Insulate and heat sound like a real good idea. Always want it to breath between your heated space and your non heated space.
What type of heat? Be careful of some fuel sourced heaters as they bring moisture in the shop.
If its in your price range spray on foam insulation can be a good way to go.
Good luck and where are the pics?

[ryans69chevy]

I'll try and get some pics of the shop this weekend. It's a disaster in there right now! And hoping for just electric heater. We will put a couple receptacles with 220v in order to run some "heavier" equipment in the future, maybe air compressor and/or welder. I think we will just end up putting in the batting type insulation as that is probably the cheaper method and will be sufficient enough for us.

[classicchev]

There is an old sayin " if you insulate you must ventilate"

As long as you have vented soffit and at least 4 vents in the ridge of the roof , you will be fine. As for heat, I would look into Radiant heat. I have had one for 15 years, spray all kinds of lovely smelling stuff all day long, albeit Im pulling fresh air in for the heater itself.

Also make sure you use 6 mil poly over the insulation, seal it up well.

Darren

[ryans69chevy]

What are most of you guys using for wiring your lights? 14 gauge or 12? We plan on putting in 9 incandescent light bulbs spaced around our 24X24 garage space.

[Torrey72]

Originally Posted by ryans69chevy

What are most of you guys using for wiring your lights? 14 gauge or 12? We plan on putting in 9 incandescent light bulbs spaced around our 24X24 garage space.

What if you used eight four foot T8 lights on two switches? T8's will give better light and save you money on electricity. Two switches will let you tone down the light when you don't need that much. T8's also light up on cold days.

[ryans69chevy]

Is that what most people use in there shops? Or would incandescent be alright? I just figured having 9 lights spaced around the two stall garage would be more than enough light. Or should I put in a few more?? What do you guys think?

[NONHOG]

Originally Posted by ryans69chevy

Is that what most people use in there shops? Or would incandescent be alright? I just figured having 9 lights spaced around the two stall garage would be more than enough light. Or should I put in a few more?? What do you guys think?

Future of incandescents is unclear. I'd say if possible check other shops about the same size and see if your happy with there lighting.

[Notch1988]

I have a 24X40 and have 30 recessed lights. Currently have 100w equivalent CFL's and am testing a couple 150w equivalents to see if their life span in the recessed fixtures is worth the $$$. There's never enough light.

[ryans69chevy]

Ha! Yeah, that's what I hear. I think we are going to switch over to some flurocent t8's get some long strips and make the shop brighter than white.

[67chevyc10719]

[cableguy0]

You definately want flourescent lights and not standard bulbs. They are a lot brighter and will last longer. There can never be enough light. It doesnt matter how many lights you put in you will add more. When running wire heavier is generally better. Your going to be buying rolls of it so you might as well just stick with 12 gauge everywhere and call it good. Add plugs every 3 feet. Run a few on there own breaker for bigger tools etc. Overkill is best when it comes to lights and plugs etc. Tripping over an extension cord sucks. Get a bigger service than you think you will need. 200 amp is probably best. A lot of tools are energy pigs especially once you start getting into compressors and welders etc.

[Shane]

I used T8's in the 5000 K color temperature range for my lighting. My 24' x 36' is lit with six 8 ft (double 4') fixtures then I have two 4 ft. fixtures over my garage doors on a separate switch (don't cut them on if door is open). I chose the 4 ft. bulbs simply because of their ease of disposal and transport from the big box stores. Buy a quality electronic-ballast fixture (Lithonia is what I used) and name-brand bulbs. I also had 3 can lights placed above where my work bench was going. It helps to have a bit of "target" light when you have small detail work going on at the work bench.

It is BRIGHT enough in there that I can turn only the center bank on and it's plenty of light to work, detail, etc. on a vehicle. Turn the other 2 banks on and it almost hurts your eyes it's so bright. Seriously.

I placed receptacles every 6 foot and placed them approx 4' 6" ft from the baseboard. I also placed at least one 220 volt plug on every wall.

As cable said above, you cannot have enough light or enough electrical receptacles.

Not sure if you plan on finishing the interior walls, but I bought a roll of quality speaker wire and ran it before I had the drywall on the ceiling finished. I marked the wire locations and then put in some inexpensive ceiling-mount speakers once the drywall was finished. I think I spent less than $100 for all the speaker wire, speakers and the AV box where the speaker wire exits the drywall at the stereo end.

Just a few thoughts.

[ETsC10]

Originally Posted by classicchev

There is an old sayin " if you insulate you must ventilate"

As long as you have vented soffit and at least 4 vents in the ridge of the roof , you will be fine....

Darren is absolutely correct!
Also, if you have roof vents and soffet openings, do not put gable vents
on the sides of the building. It will short circuit the way the building breathes.

[ryans69chevy]

So far I've put up 11 receptacles with 12 awg. Decided on 3-8' 2 lamp wide t8 fixtures and 4-4' 2 lamp wide t8 fixtures. Got a 100amp Square D QO service. Trying to decide on a welder would love to have the Miller 212 or a Lincoln equivalent to the Miller. I would like it to be a 240v wire-fed mig welder for welding on frames and less. What would be a good model to get? I believe they are around 50A plugs so what size wire are you guys running to these plugs? 6/3?

I also installed two vents on the roof. Is that gonna be enough for a 24X20?


I'm going to be looking at an air compressor soon also. Would like one to do some sandblasting every now and then. Running a few air tools. I don't have too many air tools and I don't really see myself using an air compressor too often besides sandblasting occasionally. Shootin' for around $700. Is that an overkill or not enough? Right now though what I really need to do is wire in a receptacle for the compressor any thoughts on that? Wire size and the like?

I'm planning on doing some speakers too! That's I guess my last issue though ha!

Thanks for the advice! I just got a storage space so now I can really get movin' on this project! Going to trench in the wire now!

[Notch1988]

6 gauge is overkill. I ran a single 6 gauge outlet just incase I needed to run something up to 50 amps. All my other outlets are 8 gauge with 30 amp breakers. I run a Miller 180 mig, a Longevity 50i plasma, a 5hp Quincy 2 stage compressor and my 2 post lift all on 30 amp outlets.
I realize you don't think you'll need much air compressor now, but if you spend the money for a good one it will be with you literally for the rest of your life. Who knows what you'll be working on in 10 years time.

[ryans69chevy]

How do you like your 180? I don't know what size welder I should get...I'm only planning on welding the maximum thickness of a frame.

[ryans69chevy]

Ready to buy T8 lamp fixtures this week, but would like to know if anyone has seen the lamp fixtures with the mirror-like refective instead of just white. The mirror is suppose to illuminate the room more. Does anyone know if they help that much, or if they are annoying for something in a 2 stall garage shop? Or maybe it's something that everyone wishes they had? I don't know which one to get...

Thanks

[hayhauler71]

If your ceiling is 15 plus feet get the reflectors if not I would not waist the money

[Torrey72]

Ryan, What color temp lights are you going to use? I like the 5000K ones.

[jf781]

Ryan - As far as air compressors and welders go - Get the biggest you can afford. Like mentioned earlier - you don't think you need it now but you'll be happy when you do.

Compressor - IMO the best bang for your buck out there is the US General 60 gallon 2-stage at Harbor Frieght Link. I know mentioning HF is like saying you like O'bama but the thing is made in the USA except for the pump (italy). And $800 for a 2 stage pump is a good price. You'll need 2 stage for sand blasting. Doing it with a single stage will overwork it and make it run hot quickly. Hot = wet air, wet air = clogged blaster.

Welder - I plan on shorting my frame and welding it back together with a 180 because one is right next door. But again you never know what you'll be doing down the road. My suggestion is get the 212 if you can afford it, if you need money later on you can always sell it and probably make enough to buy a 180.

Just an IT nerd's thoughts.

[Shane]

Originally Posted by ryans69chevy

Ready to buy T8 lamp fixtures this week, but would like to know if anyone has seen the lamp fixtures with the mirror-like refective instead of just white. The mirror is suppose to illuminate the room more. Does anyone know if they help that much, or if they are annoying for something in a 2 stall garage shop? Or maybe it's something that everyone wishes they had? I don't know which one to get...

Thanks

Instead of paying more for the reflector-type fixtures, use the money saved to buy more of the basic flush-mount 8 foot 4 bulb Lithonia fixtures fixtures. I bought mine at Home Depot. I have 6 fixtures in a 24' x 24' section of my 24' x 36' shop (back 8 feet is stairs, bathroom and closet) with a 10 ft. ceiling and it is a LOT of light. I have mine wired up on 3 circuits and can normally flip on just the center set of lights and it is plenty to illuminate most anything I want to do.

I will try to remember and take a quick pic for you tonight after it get's dark from outside looking into the garage so you can see the amount of light I'm describing.

[ryans69chevy]

Thanks for all the quick responses! I guess I will go with the regular white lamped fixtures. I'm glad you guys knew what I was talking about. I didn't know how else to explain it! As far as bulbs I have no idea what kinda bulbs to put in! I guess that's the least of my worries! haha.

I think I'm pretty much set on a Millermatic 180. I've heard really good reviews on that machine and it's about all the machine I'm gonna need for a long time. I'm just not quite sure what size of breaker to put in. I can choose from 30-50amp pretty much since the walls are still bear.

As far as air compressors go I'll be looking at some two stages right around that same price I'm thinking. I was thinking I'd put in a couple 30 amp breakers to supply the air compressor. I'm only 19 so I only have so much cash to play around with.

Shane,
I'll be waiting for those pics!!

The plan for the detached garage that is 24X20 is getting three 8' light fixtures 2 lamps wide with 4 4' bulbs in each fixture along with four 4' light fixtures 2 lamps wide. I'm gonna put in three rows of lights and have each row on a single pole switch.

It's taking awhile to get everything done around here since I've been so undecided on what size breakers to run to the future welder and air compressor. Also it's been so flippin hot and humid around here that it just sux trenching 70' for the 2awg wire. Finally got that wire in tho! Progress!

[ETsC10]

Ryan, if you have the room, go for as many 8' fixtures vs. four foot as you can.
You will find they provide much more light compared to the energy they use.

As for the ventilation, building ventilation is a science but using your
building dimensions you can figure the basics using a calculator..
http://chuck-wright.com/calculators/stack_effect.html
should give you a starting point.

There are a lot of other programs on the net that can help you with
this and it's research well spent as undoing/redoing is costly and a pain.
I went through weeks of training in this stuff and it can be so complicated
that I won't get into it here.

Have fun with your space and POST SOME PICS!!!!


AND SPEAKER WIRE IS A MUST!!!!

[Shane]

sorry for the delay, I've been traveling past couple days with work.

here are the pics with all 3 banks of lights on. this was taken before it was completely dark out as well.

these were taken with my Droid phone, so they are over-exposed to some extent.

hope this helps out.