Timing problem

[Double Stack]

I need help with my timing!! I’ve searched, but all of the threads are dealing with issues that aren’t the same. I've got a performance cam of some sort and distributer that puts out the most juice the guy could find. If that helps.

It seems I need the throttle linkage and timing to be just about perfect for my truck to start. Once I got it going I tried to adjust the timing off my vacuum gauge to the green. Once there and warmed up, it just starts to die. I was trying to keep it alive by adjusting it, but it wouldn't stay in the green. Then it died again, and I can’t get it to start after trying to keep it alive. What’s going on!?! I just got a new battery because I thought it would help having 795 CCA over 535 CCA. It helps, but it's not the fix.

Is there a factory “0“ for the throttle linkage and distributer? Everyone I ask says my throttle linkage shouldn’t have anything to do with my truck starting, but it obviously has a direct effect on the vacuum. I’m going crazy here!! I’ve youtubed it, searched the site here, and just plane googled it. Somebodies got to know this!!

[BMERDOC]

Never set timing with a vac gauge. I've never heard of doin this until I signed onto this forum and now I've heard of it a coupla times. You should have timing marks and a pointer at the balancer. If I read it correctly there is no 0 for throttle linkage. You'll need to rezero the engine and retime it. Then reset the idle on the carb. You need the vac gauge for the carb settings. Bring the #1 cylinder to TDC and check the rotor button to make sure its close to #1 terminal. I'll need to know what carb you have to preset idle.

[Double Stack]

Hi, I went and bought a good timing light only to find that when the light fires the pointer is marking way before (to the left if you are looking at if from the front of the truck) the timing marks. Even when it was running better. That’s why I got the Vacuum gauge. A friend told me I wouldn't be able to use a timing light if I didn’t know what cam was in there. Thoughts?
How do I zero an engine? Is there a zero for idle on the carb? Rotor button?
I’ve just been learning all this off of youtube and reading, but right now my brain is pissed!! I’ll google all this too.
I know to turn the crank or bump it with the #1 spark plug pulled and to feel for the puff then turn it back a bit right?

I see Edelbrock 1406. I googled it- 600cfm electric choke. Right?
I can’t do anything else until tomorrow because I drained my battery and my little porta jumper.

Thank you for the time and help!!

[BMERDOC]

Good, you got a timing light. Start here: Remove spark plug #1. Find your pointer and timing marks at the balancer. Clean the notch on the balancer and highlight it with some paint, white out, a marker or whatever makes it legible and sharp. Mark the #1 terminal of the distributor cap on the body of the distributor. Remove the cap so that you can see the rotor. Using a pencil (the best tool I've heard of so far) or a short piece of wire (8"ish) and insert it into the #1 spark plug hole. Rotate the motor clockwise (by the nut on the balancer or by turning the flywheel, You may be able to grab a fan belt to turn it if your lucky) until the #1 piston reaches the top. Your balancer mark should be on zero and your rotor SHOULD be pointing at the timing mark you made on the body of the distributor or at least near it. If its not its probably at #6 and you are "180 degrees out" because #6 is whats known as the companion cylinder. If you are on TDC, your balancer is on 0 and your distributor mark lines up with the rotor your engone is zero'd. If you are at TDC and your balancer is at 0 but the rotor is "near" TDC reassemble the engine, loosen the distributor holdown bolt and start the engine. Hook up your timing light and turn the distributor back and forth to see if you can line up the balancer marks. Do it slowly and if the engine starts to run worse twisting one way..twist the other way.

I'm gonna submit this, go have a cig break and post the rest in a minute. You friend is wrong about Big cams and static timing.

[BMERDOC]

Ok..So I forgot to mention that when you check timing with the light mske ure you disconnect the advance canister on the distributor and plug the vaccum supply line.

Until you know more, know that even a big cam can and should be set with a timing light. Don't worry about locking out advance or any of that stuff until you know how to do the basics correctly. Youtube some big power dyno runs and see if you can spot them timing it.

If the engine runs and idles, set the idle where you like it. It should be anywhere between 650 and 750 as a base line so start with 700 first if you have a tach on hand. If not set it as low as it will go without stalling at idle and adjust from there.

Have you messed with any of the screws on the carb yet? We gotta get a baseline.

[BMERDOC]

I reread your message and see that timing is too retarded. Don't worry about zeroing the motor right now. Block off the vacuum advance supply, start the engine and turn the distributor until the marks are set to spec. You should have to turn the distributor (slowly) counter clockwise to advance the timing to spec.

EDIT: Sorry, I'm reading, typing and watching the weather. Im in Richmond, Va and a storm is a brewin'. You have my attention and I'll teach you how to understand this before its over with.

[Double Stack]

Ok so this is a brand new engine that a guy put together, then broke up with his woman, and ended up leaving state fast. I found it on craigslist some what disassembled, and picked it up for cheap. So no, I haven’t messed with the screws on the carb, but he did. That’s why I was wondering about zeroing them. Also, here’s a pic of the pointer and markings. What’s goin on with the two sets of readings. I should be goin off the 0 on the stainless right? Also, are you saying that this guy installed the markings and pointer wrong, and I should remove them mark over them with paint?
Just to let you know, I haven’t moved it like you said yet. I was just showing you.

And no, I don’t have a working tach. I have a brand new dash, but the only thing that works on it is the speed. The tacc just hardly flickers with life, but the guy said it worked before. Under the hood it’s a ball of wires just to keep them out of the fan, so it’s probably something to do with that. Speed, heat, and the battery are all I have. The heat and battery are on the afer market cluster.

If you want to see more of what you are workin on, I have more pictures up in my first posting for clutch adjustment.

So I’m supposed to plug vac supply line at the carb right? Not the distributer.

[BMERDOC]

You can plug the vac supply at either end, doesn't matter. Your pics didn't show up. For clarity purposes what engine are we working on. Do you have a target timing point? I'm trying to think of the right spec but you'll be ok if your on the tab (8-14* BTDC) to get a baseline. You'll have to adjust idle so that it "sounds" right, not too slow, not too fast. We will have to attack this one segment at a time so lets get the timing closer first. Set it to 8* for now and let me know how it runs. You can set the carb better if you can tach it somehow. Sorry, but I'm not standing over your shoulder so its gonna go kinda slow.

To expand on cam/ignition timing: You do not have to know cam events (specs) to time ignition. As long as the cam is timed to the crank correctly ignition timing is based on piston position. Thats another class.

[Double Stack]

Good luck with the storm, and thanks again!! So you’re saying the engin should start by simply plugging the vac supply line because otherwise it wont start for me. I'll have to go back through turning the distributer back and forth until I get it going rough.

[BMERDOC]

No, it'll run fine with it unplugged. It doesn't need vacuum advance to idle. If it doesn't want to idle hold the butterflys open to keep it running and twist the idle screw until it will idle by itself...the key word is idle. Thanks for the well wishes!! I'll be posting on the Hurricane Irene thread with my updates.

[BMERDOC]

Ok, we gotta get centered here!! Are you saying it won't idle right now?

[BMERDOC]

Umm, yeah advanced...not retarded. Per our PM coversation , get the motor baselined and you'll get it runnin!! Check the firing order, zero the motor and check those throttle blades and reset the idle screw. Go back to base settings.

[Double Stack]

Here you go. I can't send pictures through PM's.

[Double Stack]

So I pulled my distributor, and did my timing again. Good to go there.

Has anybody ever dealt with intermittent fuel problems? It turns out that my truck wasn't starting and then dying when it was running because the fuel was cutting out. When I pour fuel straight into the carb she starts every time. Basically my fuel isn’t pumpin 90% of the time. I tried pulling the line to the carb to see if it would fill a jar full of gas, and that was a no go. Then I pulled the fuel pump to inspect it, and on top of it being brand new it seems to get good suction and pushes gas too. That’s just from me workin the rocker though. Today I’m going to try and blow air up the line into the tank with the lid off to see if I get bubbles. Then I was going to revers the air flow up the lines too. Just to see if I have some debri in my tank.

I was wondering if anybody had ever dealt with something like this or had any ideas. Also, is there a way to test a fuel pump aside from workin the rocker and listening for suction?

[So.Cal.Super]

There is a screen (sock) on the end of your sending unit in the fuel tank. I am not a fan of blowing air back towards the tank for fear of blowing anything into the tank. here is a link to a thread that fuel starving was talked about and half way down I posted a pic of my old sock.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=445422

[Double Stack]

Wow, talk about dirty! Thanks for the info and pic. So I’m guessing I’m going to have to pull my tank out of my truck to get to the sock correct? I’ll google it, no worries.

[67chevemall]

Ya I wouldnt blow air into the tank...take the lines off both ends and then blow it all out

[So.Cal.Super]

Originally Posted by 67chevemall

Ya I wouldnt blow air into the tank...take the lines off both ends and then blow it all out

Same way I would do it.


You don't have to remove the tank, if your seat tilts forward and you may or may not have the cardboard cover to move. you can remove it because it's on top of the tank and fish it out. Use a good flashlight to look inside and see if it's clean or not.

Also, Do you have a fuel filter between the tank and pump, if so remove it.

[Double Stack]

Thanks for the advice guys. I just looked into my tank and I can’t see a sock. My tank isn’t but maybe a quarter tank full or so though too. My seat doesn’t tilt, so I pulled it out. The tank looks to be in great shape out of a different truck and recently installed in this one. The lines are new which is all leading me to think it’s not the sock.....

The inside of the tank looks pretty good though. Gas is clean. O and not filter.

[Double Stack]

I found this in the line after trying to crank it over with gas poured into the carb. Just a couple of drops of fuel formed, but this popped up this time. Thoughts?

On a side note, i thought i sould relocate the fuel line away from the block. It looked really close. The line is kinked, but it would completely stop the fuel flow. I was thinking about a bigger bow out around the radiator hose. Or should it be fine how it is?

[C20-67_N_MO]

Aww the dreaded glass fuel filter!

Some on here will tell you those are a fire hazard, and I would have to agree with them.

Your fuel line looks okay to me, others may chime in here with different views but thats mine.

[Double Stack]

That’s a glass fuel filter- I thought it was a fuel ball. Just to see fuel flow. Thanks for the tip. I’ll grab some new line. So the consensus is no one use a fuel filter or sock on the line? Would the sock have been over the part I pulled out of the tank?

I just disconnected the line directly under the tank, and at the inlet of the pump to blow through it. Aside from it blowing through just fine, the gas stopped flowing after the line cleared. Is that because of the fuel pickup? normal? I plugged it with a pencil, but when I went to reattach it only a little more fuel came out. I reconnected the line, dropped some gas in the carb, ran in a bit, and still no fuel made it back into the fuel filter.

[CC69Rat]

Reading through your post and all the comments so far, I have to say I completely agree man. These guys know their stuff and are leading you in the right direction.

I had really similar issues with my dad's 68 and it ended up being the fuel filter. It concerns me that you're not seeing any fuel flow from the tank though. I think you're close on your timing and I would pull the lines and replace just to be sure. They may be fine .. something else to think about is the fuel pump. Has the engine been sitting for a while? I think those mechanical pumps have a diaphram in them that might have deteriorated and cracked (?) Either way I agree with starving for fuel.

Hang in there man. You'll get it.

[LONGHAIR]

The kink in the fuel line is a problem that needs to be addressed. It is probably not restricting enough to keep the thing from running, but it should be fixed. At bare minimum it is a potential for a crack/leak.

[Double Stack]

CC69Rat,
Today I’m going to fix both hard and soft fuel lines with no filter. If that doesn’t work, I’m going to pull my seat and tank again drain the gas, and clean the tank. Even though it looks to be in great shape, it’s pretty obvious that there’s some kinda crap in there clogging the line.
Once I get fuel back to her on a regular bases, I’m going to redo the timing. Right now I just want her to feed!!

The engin is basically new from a build, so yes- it has been sitting for awhile during the build proses. I know he stopped working on it in march. Other than that I don’t know when he installed the pump. I’ve driven it about 125 miles since I picked it up, and this all started to happen progressively from there. How can I tell if the pump has gone bad?

Thank you for the feedback and help!

LongHair,
Sounds good, and thank you! I’m on it today.