minimum 4x4 engine size - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Midgets50 · 10-14-2012, 08:00 PM

Hi all,
Im trying to decide what motor to use in my truck i want to make it 4x4, but i dont need a massive 350 motor. i was wondering what the best combination would be to put in. gas or diesel either and im trying to balance performance with price. im on a budget.
Thanks in advance

bilfman · 10-14-2012, 08:49 PM

Well a 350 isnt massive and is will probably be the cheapest power for your $$, small block chevy parts are plentiful and can be as economical as any smaller engine. I think on performance/price it will be hard to beat a small block.

Redcap · 10-14-2012, 09:05 PM

A 350? Massive?!

It is easily the most common GM motor and smallblock parts are cheap.

86c20 · 10-14-2012, 09:25 PM

if you have larger tires and do some real off roading go with a diesel. i would rec a isuse or a cummins but the cummins is expensive. perkins are cheaper and good motors. personaly i like detroit 2 strokes 453t or if its a have ton a 353t ia good. little bet more odd but can be fond cheaper. if you go with gas a 350 is about the best all around motor. or of more turque is needed find a 454 out of a bus or c60.

Midgets50 · 10-14-2012, 09:51 PM

sorry for my poor wording. i mean i didnt want to go with anything more massive than a 350 for fitting issues. and i would love to go the diesel route which diesel besides cummins is the best. Love cummins and duramax, but cant find them for a decent price and Duramax dont get the economy mileage that any of the other diesels get

vectorit · 10-14-2012, 09:53 PM

Cheap crawling, and time tested.
Straight six 292, SM-465, and 5.13 gears...

Then again I have been yanked out of some serious trouble by a 4 cylinder 22R Toyota.

kenbob87 · 10-14-2012, 10:26 PM

I used to wheel with a TBI 4.3l v6 and it worked great for me had enough power to spin 33's pretty easily in low range and got decent milage on the highway that was with 4.10 gears... the engines are cheap to find most of the parts are the same as a 350 too other than the obvious intake & exhuast manifolds and internals... but then again even the pistons and rods are the same

b454rat · 10-14-2012, 10:34 PM

A big block will fit in like factory, cause they came that way. I had a couple trucks that I swapped to 454s, and dropped in easier than the small blocks came out. Me personally, I'd run a big block, I like having the power just a push of the pedal away. S-10s and Vega's should have small blocks....

andrewmp6 · 10-14-2012, 11:22 PM

For a diesel the 6.2/6.5 will pretty much bolt right in anywhere a small block will fit.But you can't beat a 350 on price pre hp it is one of the cheapest v8s to make power with.2nd would be the ford 302.

**special-K** · 10-15-2012, 06:52 AM

I've never felt the need for a big block in a 4wd. Gears is where you get your torque. There are legendary 4wds that had very low horsepower. And,look at tractor HP ratings...really low. And 85hp tractor can do some serious pulling.
I agree a small block would be your cheapest most powerful bet. I have a 6.2 Jimmy and that thing has enough power to do what a 4wd does. It's 135hp.

b454rat · 10-15-2012, 08:01 AM

Diesels have a buttload of torque, really what you need in a truck/4wd. The 350 would be your best bet, can get some power out of it with not much effort or money. Or if you can find a 400, even better...

Midgets50 · 10-15-2012, 09:44 AM

im starting to look through diesels now. what years do i need to look through for a good diesel that requires minimum wiring. if possible i want a motor that doesnt require a computer

Redcap · 10-15-2012, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midgets50

im starting to look through diesels now. what years do i need to look through for a good diesel that requires minimum wiring. if possible i want a motor that doesnt require a computer

Most diesels that will fit into your truck are mechanical and require bare minimum wiring. 3-53/4-53 Detroits, 4BT/6BT Cummins...there are some smaller Cat motors that might fit.

**Zoomad75** · 10-16-2012, 01:17 AM

You really can't beat a small block Chevy for maximum ability to swap in and fit. Diesels are great for torque, but with that comes size and weight. 6.2/6.5's are big and heavy, lack the power of later diesels unless fitted with a turbo. Both have their own issues for reliability. Getting a duramax stuffed in there is going to be expensive and you'll have fun with the floor to clear an Allison trans (again more $$$'s) due to its size. Cummins engines aren't cheap even with the older 4bt or 6bt versions. You can use a trans adapter out of a GM p-chassis running a 4bt to mate them to a gm trans. Average price on a used 4bt is still 2g's for a runner with miles on it.

Besides the cost, you'll have to account for the weight with the suspension you plan on using. Going with a small block simplifies the whole process. The later chassis you have already has mounts for it. You can make up for some lack of power with a stock 350 (or smaller) but gearing it up at the axles. Higher numerical gears will get the truck rolling with less power than a diesel at an expense of overall top end speed.

One other option is going with a newer gen III/IV LS type small block. Pound for pound they make more power than the original small block. Go all the way with the fuel injection and you'll enjoy power and fuel economy. It's a higher tech way to go for sure.

obijuan · 10-16-2012, 11:07 AM

292/sm420/205.

Redcap · 10-16-2012, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obijuan

292/sm420/205.

The SM420 never had a NP205 attached. You must be thinking of the SM465.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/sm420.htm

GSP7 · 10-16-2012, 11:38 AM

5.9 Cummins is a heavy motor 1100 lbs not including inter cooler etc

Sm block chevy is 575 lbs

I have a dodge ram cummins 4x4 and that motor is heavy allright

Mikec10 · 10-16-2012, 12:45 PM

diesels for mudding suck, dont get a diesel if you want to mud, 5+klb truck sinks pretty easily in the mud.

obijuan · 10-16-2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redcap

The SM420 never had a NP205 attached. You must be thinking of the SM465.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/sm420.htm

not necessarily impossible either.

Midgets50 · 10-16-2012, 01:31 PM

great input everyone. im not planning on going mudding in this truck. just wanting to have something that can use the 4x4 for snow and whatever else the weather throws. and still have the power to pull something if needed. i wont be pulling anything to big

Redcap · 10-16-2012, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obijuan

not necessarily impossible either.

No, but why bother with the difficulty and expense?

**bignbad** · 10-19-2012, 07:35 PM

292/sm465/205 with 410 gears

rcbildr · 10-19-2012, 11:09 PM

The set up my girlfriend and I have been talking about for her 85 diesel burb is to rebuild a 6.2L diesel and install a turbo.

Back when I had the burb, I had an SM-465 behind the 6.2L and loved the set up....just put it in granny low and idle anywhere. Just before I gave her the Burb I swapped out the SM-465 for a TH-400...the heavy clutch would have really aggravated her bad ankle and hip.

andrewmp6 · 10-20-2012, 09:23 PM

The 6.2 detroit diesel was used 82-93 in gm trucks vans.The 6.5 replaced it i think that one has a ecu but its a early one not a big headache to wire.Both of them will pretty much bolt right in tho.Have you thought about a cummins 4bt?Its a 3.9 4 cylinder basicly a 12 valve with 2 cylinders cut off it.They are a little slow stock but they are easy to mod to get more power and mpg.

10-14-2012, 08:00 PM	#1
Midgets50 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: maryville, mo Posts: 302	minimum 4x4 engine size Hi all, Im trying to decide what motor to use in my truck i want to make it 4x4, but i dont need a massive 350 motor. i was wondering what the best combination would be to put in. gas or diesel either and im trying to balance performance with price. im on a budget. Thanks in advance

10-14-2012, 08:49 PM	#2
bilfman Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Regina, SK, Canada Posts: 622	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size Well a 350 isnt massive and is will probably be the cheapest power for your $$, small block chevy parts are plentiful and can be as economical as any smaller engine. I think on performance/price it will be hard to beat a small block. __________________ 1979 Chevy Dually Crew 4X4 454, D60 Tru-trac, D70 Detroit Locker, 3.73, 4L80E/NP205 1971 GMC 3/4 Ton 4X4

10-14-2012, 09:05 PM	#3
Redcap Registered User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lewis County, WA Posts: 1,523	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size A 350? Massive?! It is easily the most common GM motor and smallblock parts are cheap.

10-14-2012, 09:25 PM	#4
86c20 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: edgartown mass Posts: 852	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size if you have larger tires and do some real off roading go with a diesel. i would rec a isuse or a cummins but the cummins is expensive. perkins are cheaper and good motors. personaly i like detroit 2 strokes 453t or if its a have ton a 353t ia good. little bet more odd but can be fond cheaper. if you go with gas a 350 is about the best all around motor. or of more turque is needed find a 454 out of a bus or c60. __________________ 1986 c20 "the hillbilly" 350 sm465 3.42gears 21mpg at 70mph 1985 k30 "the ice cream truck from hell" no rust az truck 197-8??? c30 "ramp truck" 454 1978 monte carlo 350 350th with 2.73 gears. no rust. sc car

10-14-2012, 09:51 PM	#5
Midgets50 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: maryville, mo Posts: 302	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size sorry for my poor wording. i mean i didnt want to go with anything more massive than a 350 for fitting issues. and i would love to go the diesel route which diesel besides cummins is the best. Love cummins and duramax, but cant find them for a decent price and Duramax dont get the economy mileage that any of the other diesels get

10-14-2012, 09:53 PM	#6
vectorit What? Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,617	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size Cheap crawling, and time tested. Straight six 292, SM-465, and 5.13 gears... Then again I have been yanked out of some serious trouble by a 4 cylinder 22R Toyota. __________________ Chris 1968 K20 Suburban 1972 K10 LWB PU

10-14-2012, 10:26 PM	#7
kenbob87 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: South Haven, MN Posts: 109	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size I used to wheel with a TBI 4.3l v6 and it worked great for me had enough power to spin 33's pretty easily in low range and got decent milage on the highway that was with 4.10 gears... the engines are cheap to find most of the parts are the same as a 350 too other than the obvious intake & exhuast manifolds and internals... but then again even the pistons and rods are the same

10-14-2012, 10:34 PM	#8
b454rat Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Binghamton, NY Posts: 3,454	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size A big block will fit in like factory, cause they came that way. I had a couple trucks that I swapped to 454s, and dropped in easier than the small blocks came out. Me personally, I'd run a big block, I like having the power just a push of the pedal away. S-10s and Vega's should have small blocks.... __________________ 2000 GMC CCSB 454/4L80 6” lift SAS 1999 Chevy CCSB 454/NV4500 6” lift 1999 GMC Yukon 350/4L60 4" SAS

10-14-2012, 11:22 PM	#9
andrewmp6 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Louisville,Ky Posts: 5,811	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size For a diesel the 6.2/6.5 will pretty much bolt right in anywhere a small block will fit.But you can't beat a 350 on price pre hp it is one of the cheapest v8s to make power with.2nd would be the ford 302.

10-15-2012, 06:52 AM	#10
special-K Special Order Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mt Airy, MD Posts: 85,862	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size I've never felt the need for a big block in a 4wd. Gears is where you get your torque. There are legendary 4wds that had very low horsepower. And,look at tractor HP ratings...really low. And 85hp tractor can do some serious pulling. I agree a small block would be your cheapest most powerful bet. I have a 6.2 Jimmy and that thing has enough power to do what a 4wd does. It's 135hp. __________________ "BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~

10-15-2012, 08:01 AM	#11
b454rat Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Binghamton, NY Posts: 3,454	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size Diesels have a buttload of torque, really what you need in a truck/4wd. The 350 would be your best bet, can get some power out of it with not much effort or money. Or if you can find a 400, even better... __________________ 2000 GMC CCSB 454/4L80 6” lift SAS 1999 Chevy CCSB 454/NV4500 6” lift 1999 GMC Yukon 350/4L60 4" SAS

10-15-2012, 09:44 AM	#12
Midgets50 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: maryville, mo Posts: 302	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size im starting to look through diesels now. what years do i need to look through for a good diesel that requires minimum wiring. if possible i want a motor that doesnt require a computer

10-16-2012, 01:17 AM	#14
Zoomad75 K5Camper Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Pueblo, CO Posts: 1,513	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size You really can't beat a small block Chevy for maximum ability to swap in and fit. Diesels are great for torque, but with that comes size and weight. 6.2/6.5's are big and heavy, lack the power of later diesels unless fitted with a turbo. Both have their own issues for reliability. Getting a duramax stuffed in there is going to be expensive and you'll have fun with the floor to clear an Allison trans (again more $$$'s) due to its size. Cummins engines aren't cheap even with the older 4bt or 6bt versions. You can use a trans adapter out of a GM p-chassis running a 4bt to mate them to a gm trans. Average price on a used 4bt is still 2g's for a runner with miles on it. Besides the cost, you'll have to account for the weight with the suspension you plan on using. Going with a small block simplifies the whole process. The later chassis you have already has mounts for it. You can make up for some lack of power with a stock 350 (or smaller) but gearing it up at the axles. Higher numerical gears will get the truck rolling with less power than a diesel at an expense of overall top end speed. One other option is going with a newer gen III/IV LS type small block. Pound for pound they make more power than the original small block. Go all the way with the fuel injection and you'll enjoy power and fuel economy. It's a higher tech way to go for sure. __________________ Rob Z. 1975 K5 350/465/205/D44/12b 4" lift on 35's- RIP 1991 K5 8.1L/NV4500/241/D44/14b FWC Camper

10-16-2012, 11:07 AM	#15
obijuan Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: cibolo tx Posts: 1,033	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size 292/sm420/205.

10-16-2012, 11:38 AM	#17
GSP7 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Idaho Posts: 630	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size 5.9 Cummins is a heavy motor 1100 lbs not including inter cooler etc Sm block chevy is 575 lbs I have a dodge ram cummins 4x4 and that motor is heavy allright __________________ '81 K20 Silverado , '99 Dodge Cummins 4x4, '05 Dodge Cummins 4x4, Pinstriping-Lettering-Specialty Painting



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10-16-2012, 12:45 PM	#18
Mikec10 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 293	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size diesels for mudding suck, dont get a diesel if you want to mud, 5+klb truck sinks pretty easily in the mud. __________________ 1980 C10 SWB Yukon 5.3/5 speed 3.73 gears.

10-16-2012, 01:31 PM	#20
Midgets50 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: maryville, mo Posts: 302	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size great input everyone. im not planning on going mudding in this truck. just wanting to have something that can use the 4x4 for snow and whatever else the weather throws. and still have the power to pull something if needed. i wont be pulling anything to big

10-19-2012, 07:35 PM	#22
bignbad Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: highspire,pa Posts: 423	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size 292/sm465/205 with 410 gears __________________ '72 chevy k20 '06 H-D Springer softail http://www.bluemooncruisers.com/ http://www.enginecycle.com/ ~Eric

10-19-2012, 11:09 PM	#23
rcbildr Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Gold Bar, WA Posts: 1,216	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size The set up my girlfriend and I have been talking about for her 85 diesel burb is to rebuild a 6.2L diesel and install a turbo. Back when I had the burb, I had an SM-465 behind the 6.2L and loved the set up....just put it in granny low and idle anywhere. Just before I gave her the Burb I swapped out the SM-465 for a TH-400...the heavy clutch would have really aggravated her bad ankle and hip. __________________ My Projects: 1960 GMC 1/2ton with 305 V6 (daily driver) 1963 Chevy 1/2ton 2wd...converting to 4x4 1967 Suburban 1/2ton 2wd My Girlfriends Projects 1985 Chevy Suburban 3/4ton 4x4 with 6.2L diesel, 4" lift, converted to TH-400, Warn Premium manual hubs, & Wildcat 315/75/R16 tires. (daily driver) 1978 Camaro Type LT with a Marine 350 & vortec heads, Rochester Carb, & roller cam 1978 Camaro Z28

10-20-2012, 09:23 PM	#24
andrewmp6 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Louisville,Ky Posts: 5,811	Re: minimum 4x4 engine size The 6.2 detroit diesel was used 82-93 in gm trucks vans.The 6.5 replaced it i think that one has a ecu but its a early one not a big headache to wire.Both of them will pretty much bolt right in tho.Have you thought about a cummins 4bt?Its a 3.9 4 cylinder basicly a 12 valve with 2 cylinders cut off it.They are a little slow stock but they are easy to mod to get more power and mpg.

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