Starter Headaches - Help!

[Rifleman]

I've tried searching the threads and can't seem to find any info that is helping me so far... I had been having trouble with my starter for some time and decided the solenoid was shot. I decided last week to finally take care of it and stopped at Autozone and picked up a new starter. I got home, pulled the old one, replaced it with the new one and...trouble.

The new starter sounded like it was maybe getting to much connection between the starter and flywheel...it would turn for a brief second then nothing. After doing some research I decided it most likely needed to be shimmed but I didn't have the time to go the auto store, buy shims, and come home so I decided to put the old starter back in and live with it for a while. With the old starter back in I'm having the same problem as with the new one...and there weren't even any shims in it to begin with!

Now, to compound my headaches, the shims I got from Autozone don't seem to match the bolt pattern on my starter...AND...all the advise I find about shimming a starter talks about a starter with two bolts...mine has three to mount to the block.

It's a '72 K-10 with a 350 and 4 speed.

I'd really like to avoid having the 'ol girl towed to the shop and ANY advise / help would be much appreciated.

[geezer#99]

What's your timing set at?
Sounds like too much advance!

[dwarf717]

is the support bracket from the engine block to the front of the starter still there? If not, get one. Your starter is moving around from the torque when it engages the flywheel. I went through this for a long time on my old camaro, before I installed that bracket, and cured the problem once in for all

[davepl]

You don't really describe what originally was wrong, other than "trouble with my starter". What was wrong that you decided to start changing parts?

It's a long shot, but if you've had the engine out, a flywheel on backwards will cause no end of alignment issues.

[72 K20]

Does the starter bolt to the engine block with the bolts verticle ? or does it bolt to the bell housing with the bolts horizontal ?

I guess I wasn't aware that you could shim a starter that bolts into the bell housing,,,,,

[Tx Firefighter]

His truck being a standard, he has the cast iron nose starter which uses three bolts that are horizontal and thread into the bell housing.

You didn't accidentally leave a lock washer off one of the bolts when you put it back in place did you or get the bolts mixed up? It sounds like one of the bolts is too long and threaded into place and is now hitting the flywheel.

[MARKDTN]

I have had no luck with Autozone starters. I only use genuine Delco rebuilt from Advance, O'Rieleys, or the Delco distributor.

I would take that one back and get a later one that bolts to the block. Use '95 Z71 as an application. You will want to be sure you ahve the same size flywheel. The later style permanent magnet starters are much more reliable. The only issue is that if you are still running points, you won't have the terminal on the solenoid for it. You can add a separate relay to give 12V to the coil during starting. If you have converted to HEI it is not an issue.

[Tx Firefighter]

Originally Posted by MARKDTN

I have had no luck with Autozone starters. I only use genuine Delco rebuilt from Advance, O'Rieleys, or the Delco distributor.

I would take that one back and get a later one that bolts to the block. Use '95 Z71 as an application. You will want to be sure you ahve the same size flywheel. The later style permanent magnet starters are much more reliable. The only issue is that if you are still running points, you won't have the terminal on the solenoid for it. You can add a separate relay to give 12V to the coil during starting. If you have converted to HEI it is not an issue.

You'd need to verify the starter will fit into the bellhousing. I haven't seen a block mounted starter that will, but I'm not saying there isn't some casting out there that won't. I haven't tried them all.

[Rifleman]

Thanks so far...to answer a few of the questions that arose:

The original problem was that the starter, on occasion, would just not work, no "clicking" no turning, nothing, just dead. I ended up making sure I parked on hills there at the end so I could roll and pop the clutch if I had to.

To my knowledge, all the parts went back on exactly how they came off (I will have to check that bolt length question though). Tx is right...it's a cast nose that bolts with three bolts Horizontally...

That might be the easiest fix (hopefully) is to check the bolts / bolt length. I can't get to it until next week but thank you so far for all the replies.

[Tx Firefighter]

I've yet to see a cast nose starter need any shimming. That's one thing GM got pretty much right on the money over the years. Check your bolt lengths to make sure you're not going too deep and hitting the flywheel.

As far as the original starter not working at times, take the solenoid apart. Inside you'll find a large copper washer. That is your contact. It will surely be pitted from arcing over the years. Just flip the washer over and put it back together. That gets you a nice smooth contact again to keep working for many more years. It's self explanatory when you take the solenoid apart. If you feel froggy you might get new bushings and brushes for the motor itself at the parts store. You'll spend maybe 20 bucks for that stuff, then you're all rebuilt and will have a better starter than the parts store rebuilds.

[Shyguy]

We put a high torque mini starter on my 454, it is held on by two bolts to the block and it works great without shimming. My truck has a manual transmission.

I have never had good luck with Auto Zone starters.

I got the info to buy the starter from some guys on a Camaro site.

Like TX Firefighter said, flipping the copper washer can fix a problem with a solenoid.

[TobyArnot]

I have purchased several starters from : http://www.dbelectrical.com/c-1693-chevrolet.aspx and never had any issues. Great pricing also.

[Mr Chevorlet]

I might be way off here but dont these 4 speeds have a neutral switch at the top of the trans. If your are not clicking or anything i would check that out.

[Mr Chevorlet]

My bad its not a neutral switch on the tranny its the back up switch. sorry about that.

[biggestjohn]

Oh, and please remember that starters ground at their mounting points. ie....block mounting surface. These locations should be free of grease, paint, etc.

[Jayschevy]

Originally Posted by Shyguy

We put a high torque mini starter on my 454, it is held on by two bolts to the block and it works great without shimming. My truck has a manual transmission.

I have never had good luck with Auto Zone starters.

I got the info to buy the starter from some guys on a Camaro site.

Like TX Firefighter said, flipping the copper washer can fix a problem with a solenoid.

I agree with Shyguy. Get a high torque mini starter. I had the same problems you're having. I tried starters from all the local parts stores with no luck. I ordered a high torque starter from Summit Racing and have never had any more starting issues.

[Tx Firefighter]

I vote for rebuild your old starter. Its made in America rather than China. It has proven itself for many years. It's a quality component. You can do the whole job in an hour with very basic tools. It will be much cheaper to rebuild your original. If you've never done it before, you will learn a new skill. And again, it's not an offshore aftermarket part, but genuine GM quality.

Solenoid....
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...358&cc=1292497

Brush set...
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...243&cc=1292497

Bushing...
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...502&cc=1292497

Bushing...
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...484&cc=1292497

Starter drive (Bendix)...
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...360&cc=1296615

[biggestjohn]

Originally Posted by Tx Firefighter

I vote for rebuild your old starter. Its made in America rather than China. It has proven itself for many years. It's a quality component. You can do the whole job in an hour with very basic tools. It will be much cheaper to rebuild your original. If you've never done it before, you will learn a new skill. And again, it's not an offshore aftermarket part, but genuine GM quality.

Solenoid....
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...358&cc=1292497

Brush set...
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...243&cc=1292497

Bushing...
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...502&cc=1292497

Bushing...
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...484&cc=1292497

Starter drive (Bendix)...
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...360&cc=1296615

While I am all for buying american, you can bet all of the parts listed are Chineese made.

Rebuilding a starter is easy, and far cheaper than buying a rebuilt one.

[Rifleman]

Just pulled the bolts and in so doing so realized: #1 the two "lower" bolts (that go through the starter and thread into the block) are the same length & #2 it wouldn't matter anyways as they don't thread into a portion of the block where the fly wheel would be...

I'm still dumbfounded as to why the old starter gives me the same problems after I re-installed it....?

[Rifleman]

Riddle me this Batman....

After scratching my head for an hour and finally coming to the conclusion that I need to take it to my mechanic I decided just to roll it down the driveway, pop the clutch and move it to the barn until I can find time to take it down. So I do just that and then decided...might as well try again. She fired right up out in the barn three times in a row! Any takers on that one? I know my battery was fine and I even tried to start it previously with my jump starter box hooked up, just in case it was the battery....

[Andy4639]

Check the ignition switch wiring. The plastic connector is bad about melting. I had the same thing happen to mine. I took the plastic off and made new connections no more problems.