Calling all guys that have converted to hydraulic throwout bearing!

[prostreetC-10]

Since I am getting ready to run some pretty big headers and people keep telling me that I might run into some issues with my bellcrank linkage, I'm thinking now would be an excellent time to at least consider converting to a hydro throwout bearing. Answers to these questions would be awesome!

Brand and part numbers?
What problems might I run into?
Reasons NOT to convert?
How does the pedal feel?
Pics? Pics? Pics?

Thanks guys!

PS: Of course this thread is for the guys cool enough to run the manual trans!

[jocko]

I went thru this decision process when I put a 5-spd o/d trans in my 66. I originally was leaning toward putting in a hyd release bearing but opted for stock config. I had not yet added headers - so space was not an issue. However, I had planned to do so one day - and I looked at it this way: manual trans and headers have been around for quite some time, long before hydraulic release bearings became available (not talkin hyd slaves) so I felt it would be easier to find headers that didn't interfere with my stock clutch linkage than it would be to convert to hyd slave.

Do you already know in advance that your linkage will be in the way?
If you are just considering doing this to clear headers, might get the headers if you don't have them and see how it goes - most common header brands list headers for manual and/or automatic trans, so seems you should be able to find some that will clear the linkage.

On the other hand, if you just have your heart set on the hyd release brg, then now probably is the time to do it, and then you won't need to limit your header selection as much. These guys sell them:
http://www.hurst-drivelines.com/
http://www.classicchevy5speed.com/El...la-Tremec.aspx
http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/clutch/kit_hcr3.htm (hyd slave retrofit -this might help if clearance is all you're after - still retains manual release bearing, but inserts hyd between master and slave cylinder mounted to bell - you can route hyd lines away from headers)
http://www.keislerauto.com/Keisler_A...gineering.html (i've NOT had good luck with these guys, just so you know)

Hope that helps. I prefer the simplicity of the stock manual linkage, but the above are some options. My preference for companies that I've dealt with was Novak #1 then Hurst or Classic #2. Keisler was way way at the bottom of my list.

[Don Quixote]

I am not a big fan of hydraulic clutches but mainly because at any moment I could wind up taking a fully loaded trip to a place like upstate NY or Alaska and they can be prone to freezing leaving me with a very costly on road repair bill. That said, I have not had much luck getting a left header to clear the linkage and still be able to adjust it so I still use the rams horns manifolds which actually work quite well and are pretty easy to find at a decent price and they don't come loose every few weeks.
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[prostreetC-10]

I understand where you are coming from but there is VERY limited header options for me in the aftermarket world. Not sure what your motor was but there is a big difference between sbc and bbc. I need BBC 2" primaries and 3" collectors. That really swallows up some room. What I'm planning on doing is getting a junk block just to do a mockup while the engine is gone to the machine shop for a month plus. My linkage with the 12" centerforce clutch and pressure plate was like butter. I won't be converting unless I have to. I was just curious how easy it was on these trucks if I had to and what was involved.

[prostreetC-10]

Originally Posted by Don Quixote

I still use the rams horns manifolds which actually work quite well and are pretty easy to find at a decent price and they don't come loose every few weeks.
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I can't exactly use a ramhorn manny on a 600+ HP 496.

[BossHogg69]

''

[prostreetC-10]

From what I'm told the car headers don't just drop in. They are shorter and like to hit the trans crossmember pretty dead on. I know you can get around that but I'd rather keep the fab work to a minimum....that means there are not that many options out there. Just do some looking around. You might be surprised at how little there is for a "truck". I have found what I'm looking for with headers though...this is a throwout bearing thread.

[BossHogg69]

...

[prostreetC-10]

PM apology sent. You are right and I didn't need to post quite like that. My head is starting to hurt from all of the decision making one has to do when building this kind of truck. I've pretty much have the header issue put to rest. I'm certainly going to get the headers and do a trial fit first before I commit to the conversion. Something I was worried about is a pedal that is too soft. My CF clutch is just about perfect so I want to keep that setup and feel if at all possible. Thanks for posting Boss!

[72c10ant]

i was looking into ordering the t5 replacement throwout bearing kit from speedway and use a 3/4 bore master i hope it works fine the speedway bearing is cheep and it only works with stock clutches speedwaymotors.com

[jocko]

70c10ant - are you running a t5? Just curious what you were ordering that replacement release bearing for. Reason I ask - T5 and older 3 & 4 speed manual trans use a different release bearing - it's not the same depth. Only mentioning as I discovered during my T5 install in my 66 that although the bell housings are all the same depth (i.e. front to back) that the things you stuff inside them are not all the same. In my case, the stock pressure plate and release bearing for my 3-speed was the same overall stacked height as the clutch/release bearing combo I put in my T5 (with the stock bell housing), however BOTH were different heights - the combo added up to the same but the individual parts were different depths. So, that is why I mention it - before installing, make sure your new release bearing is the same height as the one you're replacing. I almost screwed this pooch, and it is now why I replace the pressure plate/clutch/release bearing as a group when I do it. Just a note, not sure your config, but felt it was worth mentioning.

[72c10ant]

ihave the gmt5 with the corvette alum bellhousing i used a 79 cammaro z28 11inch clutch and matching flywheel i used the throw out bearing the kit came with and a 1000 miles later throw out was smoked so i replaced it with another bearing and again now that one is smoked i have been told the t5 uses a shorter throw out bearing and they keep on going bad because the are always spinnig and i hope i didnt ruin the fingers last time they were ok so i was gunna order the gmt5 hydrolic bearing from speedway because it is shorter than the 3 and 4 speed bearing.... sorry for spelling and grammer hope you got the idea and im on the right path

[prostreetC-10]

Hey Adam....you didn't need to remove your posts! I needed to be called out. LOL

[Don Quixote]

Originally Posted by prostreetC-10

I can't exactly use a ramhorn manny on a 600+ HP 496.

touché!
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[prostreetC-10]

Originally Posted by Don Quixote

touché!
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LOL....good one! I know what you meant though with the ramhorns.

[Portmod7]

Originally Posted by 72c10ant

i was looking into ordering the t5 replacement throwout bearing kit from speedway and use a 3/4 bore master i hope it works fine the speedway bearing is cheep and it only works with stock clutches speedwaymotors.com

Originally Posted by jocko

70c10ant - are you running a t5? Just curious what you were ordering that replacement release bearing for. Reason I ask - T5 and older 3 & 4 speed manual trans use a different release bearing - it's not the same depth. Only mentioning as I discovered during my T5 install in my 66 that although the bell housings are all the same depth (i.e. front to back) that the things you stuff inside them are not all the same. In my case, the stock pressure plate and release bearing for my 3-speed was the same overall stacked height as the clutch/release bearing combo I put in my T5 (with the stock bell housing), however BOTH were different heights - the combo added up to the same but the individual parts were different depths. So, that is why I mention it - before installing, make sure your new release bearing is the same height as the one you're replacing. I almost screwed this pooch, and it is now why I replace the pressure plate/clutch/release bearing as a group when I do it. Just a note, not sure your config, but felt it was worth mentioning.

This is the unit I went with, and I am running a Saginaw 4-speed. The unit is actually made by Howe Racing, and it seems like an ok piece. The only thing that bothers me is that it seems too cheap compared to the pricing on other manufacturer's units. I guess we'll see how it works out, so far so good.

They also sell a unit marketed for a Saginaw transmission, which I bought first, but it was too tall. Something in my assembly is strange. I have a RAM 10.5 "Stock Replacement" type clutch, I think the pressure plate fingers extend a little too far, that's the only reason I can come up with. These two bearings are already shorter than anything else I could find, and the Saginaw specific one was too tall for me.

Mine hasn't hit the ground yet, but it's close. So far the only issues I've had are self-inflicted. Now that everything is good and the system is bled, the pedal feels great. I used a 3/4" Wilwood clutch master cylinder. Looking forward to actually driving it for the real test.

Good luck!

[dznucks]

I am not using a hydro throwout bearing but I am running a hyd. slave setup with my 6 speed. I used the wilwood master like mentioned previously, they make several different bore sizes so you can get the correct stroke from the slave or throwout bearing.

In the cab, I welded a tab on the back of the stock clutch pedal that was tapped to accept the shoulder bolt. I used TR65's hyd clutch write up as a "go by". The location you mount the master cylinder on the firewall will be dictated by the amount of stroke you need from the clutch pedal. I used my father in law lathe to make me a "turnbuckle" to attach the master cylinders rod to the hiem joint that attaches to the clutch pedal via the shoulder bolt.

To fine tune the pedal stroke you can add bump stops. I replaced the stock upper rubber pad with a larger bump stop and i placed a bump stop to limit how far down the pedal would go. If you play with the dimensions you can fine tune the pedal stroke to be very short. Instead of the normal 12" of pedal travel to shift, I only have to push it 2-3" to shift gears. This makes shifting very enjoyable, especially at high rpms.


I'll try and get some pics if you like.?.

[prostreetC-10]

Originally Posted by dznucks

I am not using a hydro throwout bearing but I am running a hyd. slave setup with my 6 speed. I used the wilwood master like mentioned previously, they make several different bore sizes so you can get the correct stroke from the slave or throwout bearing.

In the cab, I welded a tab on the back of the stock clutch pedal that was tapped to accept the shoulder bolt. I used TR65's hyd clutch write up as a "go by". The location you mount the master cylinder on the firewall will be dictated by the amount of stroke you need from the clutch pedal. I used my father in law lathe to make me a "turnbuckle" to attach the master cylinders rod to the hiem joint that attaches to the clutch pedal via the shoulder bolt.

To fine tune the pedal stroke you can add bump stops. I replaced the stock upper rubber pad with a larger bump stop and i placed a bump stop to limit how far down the pedal would go. If you play with the dimensions you can fine tune the pedal stroke to be very short. Instead of the normal 12" of pedal travel to shift, I only have to push it 2-3" to shift gears. This makes shifting very enjoyable, especially at high rpms.


I'll try and get some pics if you like.?.

LOL

[dznucks]

ok. ok. lol

i'll go get some and post them in the morning.

[dznucks]

Here you go.

You can see the tab welded onto the back of the clutch pedal in the first pic. The Hiem joint bolts to the tab and has a threaded rod coming out of it. I connected the hiem joint to the master cyl plunger with a piece of 1/2 rod that i drill out and tapped on a lathe. The two large washers with clearance cuts are just to help distribute the load on the firewall. You can see how close it sites next to the brake master, the way i located everything. The last pic is of the upper bump stop, this was a pyramid bump stop that i cut down to give me the right throw. The clutch pedal does not come up, or return, as high as the brake pedal. This helps prevent shin splints and cramps when sitting in traffic. I only need to depress the clutch pedal about 2" to shift gears, but it has about 4" of travel total.

[Gumby]

Just a comment on hydraulic controled clutches, I can say after 13+ years with one in my Firebird ive grown to like them just fine, and I can control it just as well, still has strong pedal feel, though its system has two, a master and a salve hydraulic unit to control the clutch fork.