Fuel injection for in line 6

[tlcrz1972]

There are lots of threads about doing this to i-6 Toyota Landcrusers on Ih8mud.com

I started it but haven't got around to completing the FI for my i-6, the biggest problem is getting the prom reflashed to have the correct parameters for it to run correctly.

[chopper john]

Any news . im interested?

[skorpioskorpio]

If you can come up with a weber DCOE manifold you can use Jenvey throttle bodies. It's what I'll be using on my 24 valve DOHC inline 6. I will be using an AEM ecu intended for a Honda.

[slick copper]

Subscribed! I'm interested in doing TBI on my 67 250.

[skorpioskorpio]

The Jenvey throttle bodies come in several sizes to match Weber DCOE (side draft) flanges. They come 118mm which is roughly the same size as a weber and they come about half as long and about a quarter as long, the flange sizes all the same. All these will fit an old Weber manifold.

Jenvey also makes individual throttle bodies, sized for one per cylinder for custom applications, or larger ones, though their largest is kind of on the smaller side at 90mm, but probably large enough for an old 6 application.

http://www.jenvey.co.uk

There is also extrudabody thottle bodies, also available in DCOE Weber pattern. Far less vintage looking.

http://www.extrudabody.com/servlet/StoreFront

The individual throttle bodies have the sequential injector bosses already in them and you just need a fuel rail which Jenvey or Extrudabody will put together for you...but, individuals (like Weber carbs) provide no reliable vacuum, so no MAP sensor (you have to use TPS sensor, which again Jenvey and proably Extrudabody will provide) and nothing can be vacuum on your truck, so no vacuum assist for brakes, or any other vacuum driven thing. You can put in a common plenum for vacuum but then you'll lose a lot of the performance advantages of ITBs and it'll act more like a sequential injection system, not as snappy. ITBs are very snappy and reactive, if you like that stabbing the pedal and getting that "wap, wap, wap" sound. I think that's the whole point so for this reason I'll be doing Hydroboost for my brakes, electronic/servo cruise control, and eliminate anything else. Given I'm also doing rack and pinion steering I had my power steering pump rebuilt to jack up the pressure for the hydroboost and will be using a pressure bypass valve to drop the pressure for the rack as they like very different pressure/flow rates.

The AEM Series II ECUs are very adaptable and have lots of options and aren't unreasonably expensive at about $1500, but they are made to be plug and plays for various vehicles and are not marketed as generic ECUs. They have lower end generics and higher end generics, but the lower end ones are far less capable, and the higher end ones are not much more capable and a lot more expensive.

From my research on it the Holley ECUs seem not so expensive but nicle and dime you to death on options, and FAST ECUs are quite expensive and either those or the Holley will probably drive you up into the $2500 range. Cheapest option is a reprogramed OEM ECU, though most of the more programmable ones are intended for electronic pedals, something I'm not that comfortable with in a non stock system, when I let off on the pedal I want to know the air path closes, and not hope the electronics do what they are supposed to.

Then there is the Megasquirt, basic, very do-it-yourself, a decent support community, a little too Radio Shack project for me and a pretty slow processor in it, in the end has probably less than 20% of the event handling capability of the Series II. Works best in wasted spark mode and bank to bank injection, which really might be fine for one of the older sixes, in higher rpms the injectors can't really fire fast enough for true sequential to make a difference anyway, and you'll likely only be using a crank trigger so wasted spark would be your only option anyway.

So you understand the terms if you're lost on all this, wasted spark means you fire the plug (assuming a coil on plug or individual coil arrangement) at what ever near top dead center event, so not just compression but also exhaust stroke. Doesn't really hurt anything, as it's a wasted spark, a valve is open and if there is any unspent fuel it's too lean to ignite.

Bank to bank is squirting injectors, several at a time, all the time, so if you are doing 2 banks it squirts 3 injectors at a time and not only per cylinder just as the valve opens like full sequential. Often more capable ECUs will be set up to do full sequential up to a certain rpm and then do bank to bank at higher rpms where the valves are opening and closing faster than you can pulse an injector.

TPS or Throttle Position Sensor is pretty self explanitory it's just the throttle position, it's used in conjuction usually with an atmospheric sensor and oxygen sensor in an ITB system and thats pretty much all you have. Common plenum, single throttle body systems will also and/or alternately use a MAP and MAF sensor which rely on vacuum to work.

OEM systems typically also shift the transmissions, and although some aftermarket ones will as well, they are typically really crude, like cruder than a hydraulicly shifted transmissions, the better TCUs are independent and tee off the TPS sensor to find their way and are more centered on the what the trans is doing than simply sending a shift command and maybe a torque converter lock/unlock command. The Compushift II controller for example will shift the trans differently depending on how you push it, stomp the pedal and it'll bang through the gears a more casual rpm ramp up will shift more civil. TCI and several others make a cheaper cruder TCU and there is also a really do-it-yourselfer from the same people that did the mega squirt, but it's a a bare board and a bag of electronc components to solder up.

It really all depends on how electronic you want to get, You'll need a trigger of some sort anyway to time the injectors so you might as well also have the ECU do your ignition, but it isn't required. You may have a manual trans, in which case you don't need a TCU. You may be perfectly content with things like water temp, oil pressure, and whatever other engine monitoring being independent from the ECU. You may have an engine that craps out at 5000 rpm. Maybe your engine isn't capable of being very snappy or you don't care. If all these things are true there is no reason to invest in a highly capable 32 bit ECU that can handle a very large number of events very quickly. If the opposite is true and say you also want to drive all your gauges from CAN bus in real time so the ECU knows and can record everything your gauges can display and your gauges react just as fast as if they were connected to individual senders, and you want snappy, you want electronic spark control, variable ignition timing that can advance and retard timing based on RPM, you want finite control into the high rpm ranges, then you need something more capable, but there is lots of room in between.

Sorry for being so long winded just trying to share what I've learned in researching my own project, though different it all mostly applies.

[NobleSix]

lots of good info there skorpio, thanks! im still in the research phase myself. there is more good info on the bulliten board at inliners.org the thing is, in order to see all the old posts, you have to go down to the bottom of the page where it says display options and simply select "from all dates" and click change. tons of really great info, and theres sure to be more if you ask questions.

[Choleric Dragon]

I know this is a really old thread. BUT.....
GM produced fuel injected I6's in South America for many years. The parts are cheap and easily imported because of their age.
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[Warrens69GMC]

Originally Posted by Choleric Dragon

I know this is a really old thread. BUT.....
GM produced fuel injected I6's in South America for many years. The parts are cheap and easily imported because of their age.
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share the link to them

[Choleric Dragon]

Originally Posted by Warrens69GMC

share the link to them

I don't have a link but I can tell what makes and models have FI.
GM Brazil: 1995 - 1998 opala, comodoro, diplomata.
GM UK: Vauxhall omega.
In 1995 GM sent the 250 FI i6 to lotus who developed the F.I. System.
Standard 250 fi hp 170. The dohc version was between 260 and 300.
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[Warrens69GMC]

We know they are available, but not being able to get to a Brazil/ South America trusted website, might as well be non-existant.

[Choleric Dragon]

Originally Posted by Warrens69GMC

We know they are available, but not being able to get to a Brazil/ South America trusted website, might as well be non-existant.

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I would speak with a reputable import company in Texas or California. It would probably be a very easy for them to get and safe for the purchaser.