'67 C50: Widowmakers and other restoration stuff(TONS OF PICTURES)

[jumpsoffrock]

I am in need of a car hauler. My father was given this 1967 C50 hydraulic dump in ~1988-89 but ended up not being needed so it has basically sat. Was moved ~1999 and driven occasionally until varmints ate almost all of the wiring after a year or so and has since not been ran(~ 2000-01). The cab is rusted beyond repair, but who gives a $&~t, this thing just needs to work!

I found Raysbestose carries almost all brake parts I need.(still need a master Cyl)
Engine stuff can be sorted out by me.
Father said hydraulic bed worked in '89, but was not tested in '99. Linkage looks to be severed.

But I have six huge, old problems: Those darn wheels. Went to a place my father was sure could help, and they said any safe replacement wheels haven't existed for a while...no help. One big tire shop in town will work on them and gave me a quote of $1400 for new rubber all around using 20"x750 (rather than the 20"x650 from factory, not available)

What can be done about my widowmakers?


Here are as many pics as I could take, I wanted to keep you guys busy for a while.

Yes, it has a Tach












Not sure what these frame numbers mean, they are near what I think is the fuel filter:

[jumpsoffrock]

More more more!!





Anybody know how to operate the dump using these controls?










Very bad picture of the trans(4-speed):

















Next several pictures are of the dump-bed-frame and what looks to be some serious damage to it, are these bends and cracks from overload?











Is the bend in the bottom part of the frame right in front of the bump stop normal? looks odd












Not sure what this is, speedometer trans for when changing rear axle?

[mrolds88]

Not bad. You have something to work with. One thing I might look into would be a set of Dayton hubs and wheels. Would definitely get you a lot better selection of safe wheels. Think old school bus for parts.

[BarryB]

What he said about the wheels. some of the newer trucks have those YOu may be able to just swap the spindles out or well just make it them fit.

[jumpsoffrock]

Do widowmakers just fly apart when airing them up or driving on the road for "no apparent reason"(it is obvious as to why they do it)--basically at random? Or is it only when being handled wrong?

Unfortunately old school busses are not something found in my local junkyards, the largest trucks found are typically 1-tonners, that's about it.

Thank you for your replies.

[mrolds88]

YOu might want to hit the back roads and farm country. I would do a quick check online to see what axles would allow interchange the hubs. IIRC A lot of C50 and C 60 stuff through a good number of years will interchange. Even between the 700 and 800 axles in the front. Would think similar on the back too.

[Katrina/10]

Cool truck.

[jumpsoffrock]

So to make this clear, there is no such wheel that will simply bolt to this truck?

What year did they stop using widowmaker wheels on C50+ trucks?

Anybody know a source for a master brake cylinder?

Lastly, would anybody know the exact ratios of the 2 speed rear end? Can't seem to nail 'em down in the service manuals.
Would this truck be able to cruise highway speeds(55mph) for a few hours while hauling a car back home?

Thank you again

[mrolds88]

Here may be some valuable info for you.

http://chevyc60.com/index.htm

Yes its about C60's and a bit earlier, but the parts used were used for a number of years and through several series of trucks.

[jumpsoffrock]

WOW, what a fantastic resource, thank you so much. Exactly what I wanted to see!

[mrolds88]

Got some more info. J10 is the RPO code for your original axle. That translates to J10 : 15000-LB 2 SPEED AXLE 6.5/8.58 RATIO

[jumpsoffrock]

Thank you very much, where did you find that if I may ask?

[mrolds88]

Here ya go:

http://outintheshop.com/options.html

[rkn463]

Originally Posted by jumpsoffrock

So to make this clear, there is no such wheel that will simply bolt to this truck?

What year did they stop using widowmaker wheels on C50+ trucks?

Anybody know a source for a master brake cylinder?

Lastly, would anybody know the exact ratios of the 2 speed rear end? Can't seem to nail 'em down in the service manuals.
Would this truck be able to cruise highway speeds(55mph) for a few hours while hauling a car back home?

Thank you again

Some of the later trucks had 19.5" wheels with the same hub size and bolt pattern that are one piece wheels. I assume they will clear the drum brakes. I have an 89 model c60 that I bought to donate its four wheel disk brakes and power steering to my 68 model. It has the 19.5 wheels. The problem is that the choices in tire size is almost non-existent, they are all smaller diameter than the 6.50x20 which would effectively reduce the top speed. As for the master cylinder, Napa still had rebuilt units available a couple of years back.

As to highway speed, my 68 has a single speed rear with 7.20 to 1 ratio, that outs it about 4000 rpm at 60 mph.

Let us know when you get it one the road.

-Richard

[factorystock]

Originally Posted by jumpsoffrock

So to make this clear, there is no such wheel that will simply bolt to this truck?

Check out post #18 http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=599182

[jumpsoffrock]

Thank you all for chipping in, I really appreciate it, it's a huge step in the right direction.

Originally Posted by rkn463

As for the master cylinder, Napa still had rebuilt units available a couple of years back.

Nahhh, they were my first choice--they didn't even have C50 listed. They did have a C80 and B50(bus) listed, but there were no brake parts available to either of them.

But I also challenge whether they tried hard enough, I was working on a (much more common)'56 Ford F-250 a couple of years ago, and as soon as they couldn't find it in the computer, they went to their old tattered books and found it--the guy this time(who I know has been there for years) didn't try, and I didn't want to piss him off by telling how to do his job, so I left.


Not really sure what to do about a master cylinder, can't find anything even on Ebay. Surprisingly, everything else is available though....

Thanks again Richard.

Originally Posted by factorystock

Check out post #18 http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=599182

Originally Posted by factorystock

This is the period 22.5" 1 piece wheel to look out for.

Looks like ~1960 C60
Do you know what all trucks(if others than C60) they came on or an official name or "type" of rim? I really don't know what I'm looking at to be honest. But the fact that something exists is a nice help anyways, thank you. Any additional info known would be helpful
Oh, and know anywhere to find 'em?

[jumpsoffrock]

Got the truck registered--and even though it is running kinda rough, needs new tires(and wheels)--after I get insurance on it, it'll be roadworthy. I'm hoping with new 22.5" wheels/tires, it can to 55-60mph on the highways.

Here's the picture I took of it after moving it under it's own power for the first time in 15 years, and actuating it's dump bed for the first time in over 23 years.

[rkn463]

Originally Posted by jumpsoffrock

... I also challenge whether they tried hard enough, I was working on a (much more common)'56 Ford F-250 a couple of years ago, and as soon as they couldn't find it in the computer, they went to their old tattered books and found it--the guy this time(who I know has been there for years) didn't try, and I didn't want to piss him off by telling how to do his job, so I left.


Not really sure what to do about a master cylinder, can't find anything even on Ebay. Surprisingly, everything else is available though....

If I recall correctly Napa may have ended up looking up from the numbers stamped into the master cylinder. It must have taken an hour for them to find it and then it had to be shipped in from out of state.

Keep after it and you'll eventually find one.

-Richard

[D13]

You might try measuring your spring width and position on both axles, and checking lou later model trucks. My 87 C60 has 4 wheel disc brakes and 22.5" Budd style wheels, bought the whole thing for $400. Axle wheel and tire swap would be pretty simple if the dimensions match up, and you could upgrade to modern master cylinder at the same time. And yes the bed damage is from drops or overloads.

[Softpatch]

no doubt that truck is some old school cool right there....

reminds me of my old 67....had to let her go to get my 64SWB.
had to let that go because of my new project
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=632341
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.

.

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[factorystock]

Another example of the elusive 22.5" one piece wheel (5-10 pattern) Not mine.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Ot...US_Cars_Trucks

[JPBrecheisen]

I will chime in on the wheels piece as I went through this (and still am) on a 1960 C60 that I'm restoring.

Those look like Firestone RH-5 split rims. Look at the outer rear dual rim. There will be a Firestone logo stamped in with the script RH-5.

While most split rims are often referred to as "widow-makers", and while all split rims can fail during the inflation process if not assembled correctly, the Firestone RH-5 is by far the most dangerous and notorious one out there. If you spend some time searching the web and talking to folks that remember them, its really a matter of when they will fail vs. "if".

The reason the RH-5 is so notorious is that they are a 2 piece split rim vs. the "normal" 3 piece. There is no lock ring on an RH-5. The lip on each wheel half that holds them together are prone to rust pitting and metal-to-metal contact wear. You'll be forced to replace them if you buy tires as no tire shop will handle them. I never did find it in writing, but apparently they are even illegal to run down the road in some states.

If the tires are "low", do not put air in them, and certainly don't attempt to use one that has been run flat. The wheel halves can warp and if an RH-5 are sure to fail if re-inflated.

Other than looking for original one-piece wheels, I have only found them available at one source.

www.wheelsnowinc.com

The part number that should fit the 10 lug on 8 3/4 is 28160. Accuride used to make them, but now they are available from Wheels Now. They aren't cheap by any stretch of the imagination, but at least they're available. The wheels are only 6 3/4 wide so the biggest tire you'll probably be able to run is a 10R22.5.

I have taken a recent hiatus from my wheel search as the truck has been in for paint/cosmetic work since the fall, but chances are I'll end up having to get the new ones from wheels now. You may have better luck, but I spend a few months calling/looking around and wasn't able to come up with a set of 6 for my truck.

Great looking truck and good luck with the project. Its good to see somebody save the old iron.

Jonathon

[jumpsoffrock]

He Jonathon, here's a pic of my truck with those exact wheels from Wheels Now on them. Here's also some general information.

They are not exact replicas of the Accuride wheels. All of the lug holes were too small and I had to ream each of them out. Once reamed the wheels immediately fit correctly.

I emailed Wheels Now and they helped me out with the cost of a piloted reamer. They also confirmed what I was saying with regard to hole diameter--which they initially doubted: The diameters are NOT identical.

I can't seem to find the email, but I do remember that the Accuride diameters were something like .612", and the new Wheels Now had a diameter of ~.581".

What I used was a #2 Morse Taper ("2MT") piloted reamer. This is the exact unit/company I used: http://www.westtool.com/default.aspx...82&catlist=491

It just so happens that the 2MT has almost those exact dimensions! http://littlemachineshop.com/reference/tapers.php
.572" small end with a .7" big end.
Worked perfect, and believe it or not, cut the easiest and fastest by hand. Use cutting oil.

[JPBrecheisen]

Originally Posted by jumpsoffrock

He Jonathon, here's a pic of my truck with those exact wheels from Wheels Now on them. Here's also some general information.

They are not exact replicas of the Accuride wheels. All of the lug holes were too small and I had to ream each of them out. Once reamed the wheels immediately fit correctly.

I emailed Wheels Now and they helped me out with the cost of a piloted reamer. They also confirmed what I was saying with regard to hole diameter--which they initially doubted: The diameters are NOT identical.

I can't seem to find the email, but I do remember that the Accuride diameters were something like .612", and the new Wheels Now had a diameter of ~.581".

What I used was a #2 Morse Taper ("2MT") piloted reamer. This is the exact unit/company I used: http://www.westtool.com/default.aspx...82&catlist=491

It just so happens that the 2MT has almost those exact dimensions! http://littlemachineshop.com/reference/tapers.php
.572" small end with a .7" big end.
Worked perfect, and believe it or not, cut the easiest and fastest by hand. Use cutting oil.

Thank you for this information. I am certain I will find this a helpfu "heads up".

Jonathon

[jumpsoffrock]

The original pictures from my first post were saved and I'll re upload them someday...

Here's the last time it was used last Saturday. Sadly the engine has a really bad miss--it's very tired.
But I limped it to the dump and it made it home.
Wind blew over a tree and KO'd a little tractor, cut tree up and hauled it away.