where to start...6.0 swap?

[cleansquare]

I dont really know where to start. Looking for answers, guidance, insight, etc.

Ive had LS engines before..ive done the head and cam swaps..my buddy has hptuners...so im familiar with the LS world.

Basically im not happy (im never happy) with my trucks "performance". Sure, it runs great, the timing and carb are.dialed in, but i find myself wanting more.

Its a rebuilt by me 350, with flat top pistons, vortec heads and a larger than stock cam. Pretty good compression, good power, decent mileage with the OD. I get about 14-15 best, 12 normally.

The trans is a 98 model freshly rebuilt 4L80e. Im controlling it with the TCI EZ-TCU. Also using a tps kit, and a kit that converts the elec speedo output to mechanical for my cluster. Crossmember was moved back, driveshaft shortened, shift linkage was modified, etc. Does great.

What i know: ill need new motor mounts. Ill need headers for the LS.

Questions.

1. What years 6.0 am i looking for? Im not worried about LQ9's, a 4 is fine.

2. How.much should i expect to pay for just the 6.0?

3. What all do i need to run it, im assuming my tci controller will be obsolete? Wouldnt you want the ecm and harness to control both engine and trans together?

4. Do folks make harnesses premade for these conversions? How much?

5. What else? Obviously im planning on a cam swap, whatever my friend suggests. And he'll do the tuning.

Basically what im wanting, is to be able to hang with the newer trucks, as far as acceleration and towing power. Oh yeah, its an 85 c20!! Thanks!!

[Nitis]

Hopefully you will get some info as I need it too

From my limited time researching this the 6.0s bring a pretty penny and I'm probably going to go with a 5.3. Way more power than I have now anyway and should do better on gas than the 6.0. I have seen people say the 6.0 will bring double the money of a 5.3

[66LSx]

Originally Posted by cleansquare

Questions.

1. What years 6.0 am i looking for? Im not worried about LQ9's, a 4 is fine. First... why a 6.0? 5.3L is half the cost. planning on towing ALOT?

2. How.much should i expect to pay for just the 6.0? $3500ish w/ 4L80e trans...... 5.3L/4L60e is $1300ish ...6.0 w/o trans are ALL OVER THE MAP, find one near you. car-part.com

3. What all do i need to run it, im assuming my tci controller will be obsolete? Wouldnt you want the ecm and harness to control both engine and trans together? Nothing on your current trans/engine harness will remain... the ECM from the LS controls the trans (pending what you actually pick out)....some of the newer 6L80's etc control themselves via seperate TCM. You'll need to figure out your throttle body etc (cable vs. DBW) cause you'll need the gas pedal also from same year of vehicle... are you already running 4 pin brake switch maybe too for torque converter unlock? I have NO idea on reluctor wheel differences etc inside the 4L80e OLD vs. NEW

4. Do folks make harnesses premade for these conversions? How much? Yup...anywhere from $500 to $2000+ all depends on your needs...

5. What else? Obviously im planning on a cam swap, whatever my friend suggests. And he'll do the tuning. Friend has access to HPTuners or EFILive with credits or liscensing?

Basically what im wanting, is to be able to hang with the newer trucks, as far as acceleration and towing power. Oh yeah, its an 85 c20!! Thanks!!

Lastly....if you don't know where to start finding information on your own [google questions...answers follow]... your going to have to start to learn on your own. While the swaps aren't hard..... it will require you to do ALOT of homework on your own.(Read: you will be familiar with a wiring schematic)

HIGHLY suggest to get into barnes and noble to pick up a few LS swap books... while the reads aren't necessarily fun, it will save you time and posting alot of the remedial questions that some members won't even bother answering. (IE: harness etc)

Do the headers yes initially... but save the cam/rods/springs swap until after you got it going.

You'll have to address how your going to get 58 psi of fuel to the rails.... new tank?, frame mounted fuel pump, return etc.

IF I was going to want a 6.0L I'd probably chase the LQ9 as the cost difference vs. the 4... you get flat top pistons, 10:1 comp etc. for very little extra cost. (and 10hp, 10 ft-lbs).

You'll want to target a 2004+ engine if all possible as the fuel rails will be returnless. (easier... as you can do a corvette filter/regulator combo on the frame rail)

[cleansquare]

Yep, forgot all about fuel issues.

I do tow a lot. I like the idea of a 6.0 because its a 3/4 ton truck.

Why do you say wait till its running before doing the cam swap? Ease of initial tuning?

Yes, he has access to hptuners and credits and all that.

I read some of the FAQ, im not illiterate. I did quite a bit of research on my 4L80e swap so figuring out things on my own isnt the problem. I figured since there was a SECTION on LS swaps, id post some quick questions i had.

[cleansquare]

I will spend some time reading through ALL of the frequently asked questions threads tonight amd report back with more precise questions...

[66LSx]

Originally Posted by cleansquare

Yep, forgot all about fuel issues.

I do tow a lot. I like the idea of a 6.0 because its a 3/4 ton truck.

Why do you say wait till its running before doing the cam swap? Ease of initial tuning?

Yes, he has access to hptuners and credits and all that.

I read some of the FAQ, im not illiterate. I did quite a bit of research on my 4L80e swap so figuring out things on my own isnt the problem. I figured since there was a SECTION on LS swaps, id post some quick questions i had.

Shouldn't have a need for initial tuning with only headers... the OEM tune should be fine.... PENDING what all transpires with 4L80e differences.

With being able to get some driving miles on the truck and figuring out how your going to use it... you'll have a better understanding on how you want to target a cam..... IE A high-lift, high duration cam may HURT your ability to tow and MPG desires etc. All things you can find out once you get a few 1000 rounds on it. (Or if you tow once in a year after the swap... drop in a TSP224 w/ 112 deg with electronic cutouts and enjoy the hot rod you created)

Gas pedal is one think you'll really want to ensure comes from the same year truck. (or close as there are 3 or 4 differences) [again if you do drive by wire... cable throttle body will be some cost to swap over too]


Sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way... I wanted to make you aware of the hours upon hours ahead in homework needed...not upset you.. my bad. (Fuel fitting P/N's, rail adapters to 6AN, corvette regulator combos, plug wires to match your headers for clearance, motor mounts, power steering 16.5 metric fitting adapters etc etc etc.)

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by 66LSx

HIGHLY suggest to get into barnes and noble to pick up a few LS swap books... while the reads aren't necessarily fun, it will save you time and posting alot of the remedial questions that some members won't even bother answering. (IE: harness etc)

Do the headers yes initially... but save the cam/rods/springs swap until after you got it going.

You'll have to address how your going to get 58 psi of fuel to the rails.... new tank?, frame mounted fuel pump, return etc.

IF I was going to want a 6.0L I'd probably chase the LQ9 as the cost difference vs. the 4... you get flat top pistons, 10:1 comp etc. for very little extra cost. (and 10hp, 10 ft-lbs).

You'll want to target a 2004+ engine if all possible as the fuel rails will be returnless. (easier... as you can do a corvette filter/regulator combo on the frame rail)

Don't take this the wrong way, but I would disagree almost every part of this.

Buying a book on LS swaps is a total waste. There is no information in a book that isn't on the internet (probably with more pictures). Books are too slow to respond to changes in parts availability, common practice, and almost all books have a financial interest in using a certain "Set" of products. Its the same as the magazine industry; this is coming first hand.

Cam, springs, rods is FAR easier to do with the engine out of the car on a stand. This also gives you a chance to pop the heads off and actually take a look at the inside of the engine out bought. Its fairly rare that a non-starting LS engine is actually caused by some massive internal failure. The vast majority of no-start swaps occur due to the combination of electronics, fueling, tuning, and small parts-errors. Things like wrong fittings, improper sensors, bad tuning, bad wiring contribute a huge percentage of this.

Lq4 or lq9 is best left as a function of supply and demand. If you find a good lq4, buy it. If you find a good lq9, but it.....but don't skip over a good lq4 just to find the lq9 and its 10hp. Because the 9' was the caddy engine, you sometimes bay the "name tax" ; much like buying an ls1 since it was the "vette motor".

I'd aim for anything newer than 2001, simply because the 99-late00 trucks had a couple of weird situations (like iron heads on a few) and are better left as like-for-like replacements in the junkyard.

I like my return-style rail as it makes running an aftermarket unit or switching to a complete external regulator pretty easy, but there is nothing wrong with the returnless units and the 'vette regulator. Since some old trucks already run a hardline-return, half the work is done for you.

Your TCI controller is obsolete, but there are members here that use aftermarket EFI like the Megasquirt, and may be interested in the stand alone controller, so its not a total loss or anything.

And the last part is me being *****y, but to 66lsx: What "questions some members won't bother answering" are you referring to? We have an abnormally high response rate on this forum, and its extremely uncommon to see a thread with 0 responses.

[dman1982]

I'm a ls dummy, if you check out my post/build it should answer a lot of your questions, I got mine running and driving and love it, still doing a lot of the finishing stuff, I got a guy that will do your harness for around 2 hundo...it works and looks great

[66LSx]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

And the last part is me being *****y, but to 66lsx: What "questions some members won't bother answering" are you referring to? We have an abnormally high response rate on this forum, and its extremely uncommon to see a thread with 0 responses.

easy killer.....

just trying to limit ls1tech type of posts. "Hi, I want to start an LS swap...what do I need?"

I already apologized as it was communicated wrong... it was more highlighting the workload in research upcoming more than anything.


As far as the CAM... I just think its so easy to pull a motor that I'd get a driving sense before doing it. (Or just go right to a towing cam your suggesting?)
Fueling was just ease of use since he doesnt already have a return line plumbed since its carb'd. There's no difference except running another fuel line thru the chassis (return from engine back to tank) Injectors are the same: 2001-2007 - 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L - flows 3.180 gm/sec or 25.2lb/hr @ 58 psi

The book thing was a way for me to utilize downtime. $15 book on a $5000 swap didn't bother me I guess (On a plane traveling for work, at the cabin etc where there isn't wi-fi) yes internet is a better source... sorry

[cleansquare]

Crap, didnt even think about AC, and retrofitting it to the existing system that already works. Jesus

[66LSx]

Originally Posted by cleansquare

Crap, didnt even think about AC, and retrofitting it to the existing system that already works. Jesus

Help? (not sure quite what you have for a compressor)

http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...-retrofit.html

[Robznob11]

it also depends on how easy you want the swap, you want an 01-02 for aluminum heads and cable drive. 03-up for drive by wire unless you get it out of a cargo van. the 04 and up have better rods and coated pistons. also the 03-up have single feed fuel line with no return. if you go feed return like the 02 then the regulator is at the rail so you can run nearly any v8 pump assembly in a host of different tank options. if you go the other way you will probably end up with a vette filter reg set up or run a Camaro pump with the reg at the pump and retune just like the factory did

[bpatrol]

1.I guess a common mistake is not getting matching exhaust system(headers) and ls swap plates. make sure they are compatible or you will be buying twice.
If you are using stock ls manifolds I don't really know if its an issue but most love the headers
2. if you are planning a cam or changing anything inside the motor(oil pump,timing chain)
do it before you install it. your tuner buddies can tune it anyway.
3. fuel setup as mentioned above. all good advice.
4.I always put a new rear seal and whatever gaskets I can with the engine out. New installs with mystery leaks suck
5.figure out what front acces drive you will run.
there are a lot of details(harness) but totally worth it. Ive done both efi and carbed conversions. and love them both. I will never go back to a SBC.
good luck and happy easter.
sell your TCI controller to fund some of your build
Hell, I may be interested in it
phillip

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by 66LSx

easy killer.....

Fueling was just ease of use since he doesnt already have a return line plumbed since its carb'd. There's no difference except running another fuel line thru the chassis (return from engine back to tank) Injectors are the same: 2001-2007 - 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L - flows 3.180 gm/sec or 25.2lb/hr @ 58 psi

lol if you think thats me being snappy, you really haven't been here long enough. If I was actually offended, you'd know.

I argue ease of use the same way for return style; its extremely common to switch to a return style fuel line setup on carb'd engines, even more so when seeing that the p.o. already had a rebuilt engine and performance parts setup. Neither of us is really wrong here; I guess the answer is "use whats easiest with what you have"

[Andy4639]

Originally Posted by cleansquare

I dont really know where to start. Looking for answers, guidance, insight, etc.

Ive had LS engines before..ive done the head and cam swaps..my buddy has hptuners...so im familiar with the LS world.

Basically im not happy (im never happy) with my trucks "performance". Sure, it runs great, the timing and carb are.dialed in, but i find myself wanting more.

Its a rebuilt by me 350, with flat top pistons, vortec heads and a larger than stock cam. Pretty good compression, good power, decent mileage with the OD. I get about 14-15 best, 12 normally.

The trans is a 98 model freshly rebuilt 4L80e. Im controlling it with the TCI EZ-TCU. Also using a tps kit, and a kit that converts the elec speedo output to mechanical for my cluster. Crossmember was moved back, driveshaft shortened, shift linkage was modified, etc. Does great.

What i know: ill need new motor mounts. Ill need headers for the LS.

Questions.

1. What years 6.0 am i looking for? Im not worried about LQ9's, a 4 is fine.

2. How.much should i expect to pay for just the 6.0?

3. What all do i need to run it, im assuming my tci controller will be obsolete? Wouldnt you want the ecm and harness to control both engine and trans together?

4. Do folks make harnesses premade for these conversions? How much?

5. What else? Obviously im planning on a cam swap, whatever my friend suggests. And he'll do the tuning.

Basically what im wanting, is to be able to hang with the newer trucks, as far as acceleration and towing power. Oh yeah, its an 85 c20!! Thanks!!

OK I'll add my 2 cents worth.
As far as the 2 6.0 differances are, go with the cheaper LQ4 in the 2500 series HD trucks. For the money differances you can get the same horse power cheaper buy doing it your self. With cam and such. I pay $2200.00 for my LQ4 6.0 with computer and harness already done.
Ls1 wiring will do the harness and computer for you and make sure you buy a complete unit as in motor&trans with the wiring harness if at all possible.
Using your old 4l80e maybe tempting but I would buy it as one unit for the sake of not having to buy adapters and such for the older trans to newer motor. Fuel is the biggest thing to do if you plan to use the stoock truck tank. 50lbs + of pressure behind your seat is going to be loud in the cab when it's running. So you will need to decide which pump and tank to use if you stay with the stock tank. Good luck and post plenty of pictures when you start..

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=597993

[83 Silverado]

Be for you get for far into it you may look at spending $20 on a LS conversion book off Amazon, the books cover a lot of the basic parts on the swap that can help narrow down some of your search for info.

[Low Elco]

Lucky you- use an '87 pickup in your stock tank and a Walbro EP381 (?) pump, good to go! Also, look into LKQ as well for the motor.

[truckdude239]

before you buy a book look at this thread everyone says to buy a ls swap book on this but theres no need this thread contains everything you need for an lsx swap and it is free

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=456787

[littlevictories]

i checked out the ls books from the library. basically just hashed out the same things you read on the ls1tech FAQ section. but takes 5 hours to read instead of 30 mins.

i did find good book about general EFI stuff called "how to tune and modify engine management systems" explained a lot of stuff i just didnt know (coming from a carbs and HEI type of background)

[68c10airstream]

Hi cleansquare, Your motor mount that need replacement consider this, if you use gm motor mounts you won't have header clearance issues (because the mounts sit low), your donor ac compressor will work down low on passenger side, some aftermarket ridgid motor mounts allow road vibrations to trigger false knock sensor issues, i question if aftermarket mounts are the safe style that when the rubber lets loose the motor doesn't jump around in the engine compartment and do damage. Gm mounts are wrapped and stay contained (gm learned their lesson in the 60's by recalling defective mounts and cabeling the engine down). Dirty dingo mounting plates are reasonable and popular, but they cancel out the use of a gm compressor mount down low on pass. side. I like the compressor down low as this is a cool spot out of the way. 98-02 f body and trailblazer ss mounts are perfect little round biscuits out of the way. I used 1/4" plate, a welder, and a tape measure and a plumb bob. It seems my approach isn't popular, but the gm engineers are my cup of tea. Also i used a painless stand alone harness and a gm controller. Living in the salt belt make finding a clean harness without corroded wires tough, and the old brittle connector latch tabs break easy. I do know replacements are available, but the harness came with a small fuse box inc. relays with only 4 wire hookups, 2 grounds, 1 hot all the time, 1 hot with key. Good luck, Brian Fuller

[Low Elco]

Eric (ls171nova) also uses the stock top plates from the truck stands and a big plate on the crossmember and fabs 'em up. It'll be easy for you, no brake lines in the way. He's pretty much got me talked into it. The trick of Dirty Dingoes slid all the way to the rear on the pass. side with the front nose cut back for AC clearance and either the towers slid back or a rearward extension tab added to the tower is also a cool plan. Can't wait to see where you go with it!