Rat repair.

[gdavis]

Originally Posted by Ozzy2013

Been there done that sometimes its hard to track down a noise.

At least you found it and it want cost a arm and a leg to replace. Good luck

[swamp rat]

Finally got both drive shafts on, the calibration unit back on and the new alternator back in, the noise is gone!~ Paid attention to the millage signs posted along the freeway and my speedo is pretty close.

EDIT: Forgot to add the drive shaft place and i had a miss communication, when i got there he said he said $180, i said i could have sworn you said $80.... Nope, but he decided to cut me a discount for the miss communication, knocked $20 off the price for me.

Exhaust manifolds still on back order, i did order some Eastwood 1200 degree paint

Saturday i decided to put some miles on it and drove to an auto body shops open house/car show in a neighboring town, my wife works with a guy who is good friends with the shop owners, of course the rat didn't compare to the cars and trucks their and i didn't take any pics, but i wanted to see about them doing some work, the friend showing us around said these guys are way out of the league of most of us, looking at 100,000. min to build most anything, yea that's out of my league LOL!

I did end up parking next to another 72 K20 so i snapped a pic, this truck looked to be a survivor, paint a little ruff but way shiner than mine!

I'll admit with summer here i have lost a little steam, plus not being a body guy i am getting a little bit of some cold feet. I know i am gonna have to start soon before rainy season starts, probably have to shoe both bikes to one side of the garage again and setup a small body area on the garage too.

[swamp rat]

Well i don't know what i'm doing but figured I'd start with 2 areas on my bedside. When i say i don't know what I'm doing first off i still don't know if i have enough hardener in it, its been a little over an hour and its still a little tacky......First i scuffed up the area to bare metal, wiped it off then mixed up the mud and spread it over trying to push it into the surface as i went, I did overlap beyond where i sanded but figure I'll sand most the mud off back to the painted area. Hopefully there won't be a bunch of air bubbles when i sand it down. Tried not to put it on too thick but hopefully enough that i'd only need a skim coat next? we'll see.

These two areas are relatively small compared to the areas on the lower part of the bedside.

I should have removed the door first, its off now.

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

Well i don't know what i'm doing but figured I'd start with 2 areas on my bedside. When i say i don't know what I'm doing first off i still don't know if i have enough hardener in it, its been a little over an hour and its still a little tacky......

Very often, the top layer stays somewhat gummy but will clean up quickly with a coarse sanding disc on a DA (double action) sander. If the weather is hot, you need less hardener. For a 2" diameter pool of filler, I add about a 1" long bead of hardener from a 2.75 oz tube. 1.5" for a 3" pool, 2" for a 4" pool, etc. 50% more in cold weather. If you add too much, it will setup before you can get it all on and the excess will feel very warm to the touch. Too much hardener is way better than not enough. It won't hurt anything but your wallet if you move too slow.

First i scuffed up the area to bare metal, wiped it off then mixed up the mud and spread it over trying to push it into the surface as i went, I did overlap beyond where i sanded but figure I'll sand most the mud off back to the painted area.

No problem with this approach. Try not to overwork the filler. If it starts to setup, additional passes with the plastic applicator will introduce bigger bubbles.

Hopefully there won't be a bunch of air bubbles when i sand it down. Tried not to put it on too thick but hopefully enough that i'd only need a skim coat next? we'll see.

There will always be a small amount of porosity ...it's what spot filler and primer are meant to fix.

Vic

[swamp rat]

Thanks for the tips Vic i really appreciate it. Just got home a little while ago, the filler is still tacky to the touch just like when i left for work, if you tap on it with your finder nail it does sound solid.

The guy at the paint and body supply said to put a golf ball sized glob of filler down then put a straight line of hardener across it, my concern lies in the fact that the cured filler sample at the store if i remember correctly has a lot of red (hardener color) making almost a pink color, as you can see in the picks i'm not any where close to a pink hue. but it was apparent that as soon as i got a coat on around the filler weld that i couldn't add any more as the stuff was no longer workable

I didn't know you were able to vary the amount of hardener due to temp, nice to know.

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

Thanks for the tips Vic i really appreciate it. Just got home a little while ago, the filler is still tacky to the touch just like when i left for work, if you tap on it with your finder nail it does sound solid.

The guy at the paint and body supply said to put a golf ball sized glob of filler down then put a straight line of hardener across it, my concern lies in the fact that the cured filler sample at the store if i remember correctly has a lot of red (hardener color) making almost a pink color, as you can see in the picks i'm not any where close to a pink hue. but it was apparent that as soon as i got a coat on around the filler weld that i couldn't add any more as the stuff was no longer workable

I didn't know you were able to vary the amount of hardener due to temp, nice to know.

If the filler set up before you could finish spreading it, you're probably moving too slowly or adding too much hardener. The tacky surface is common. An orbital sander with coarse sandpaper works best to remove it. Once you get past it, the underlying filler should be dry. Using a manual file board is less effective on the gummy top layer as it tends to clog up from transferring the sticky particles to the paper, but if it's all you have, it can be made to work.

The mixed color should be very pale to start and will deepen slightly as the hardener activates. I start by using a mixing stick to ladle out several dollops of filler onto a mixing board. Scrape the excess off the stick with your plastic spreader, set aside the stick and put the lid back on the can. Based on the size of the puddle on the mixing board, squeeze a bead of hardener across the top of the puddle. I then use the corner of a medium sized plastic spreader to quickly stir the hardener into the filler using a circular motion. As soon as the color gets somewhat uniform, I start using the long thin edge of the spreader to "fold" the mixture. Scrape it toward the center and keep folding it over until you see no streaks of hardener left. At this point, it's ready to apply. I usually start with a small portion of the mix and spread it slowly and evenly over the prepped area. Load up another small amount and continue spreading until the entire area is covered with filler and the low spots are gone. You'll need to work quickly to stay ahead of the catalyzing process. Smooth even strokes when laying down the filler will help minimize the bubbles. If the mixture starts to congeal, walk away and cleanup your spreader. Attempting to sculpt filler already on the panel will only ruin what's there.

Knowing how much hardener to use comes with experience. Too much and the mix sets up before you can finish laying it down. Too little (especially in winter) can cause it to fail to take a set. In that case, all you can do is scrape it off the area with a putty knife and start over. Never try to cover it with a "hot" layer of mix. It ain't rocket science. Like most new things, after a while you'll wonder why you ever worried about it. Now let's see some bondo dust!

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by Vic1947

If the filler set up before you could finish spreading it, you're probably moving too slowly or adding too much hardener.

The tacky surface is common. An orbital sander with coarse sandpaper works best to remove it. Once you get past it, the underlying filler should be dry.

I attribute it to moving too slow, as soon as i started i realized the flip door was an issue, had to work around it.

Yep the tacky surface is removed.

I didn't get much done today, had a dentist appt, stopped at Home depot to buy a DA sander and some 40 and 80 grit disks, my hand held electric wasn't cutting it.

My new DA is a 6", the bottom of the filler by the body line is kinda tight quarters, wouldn't mind a smaller sander, guess a sanding block will work.

Don't know if anybody has experience with this glass filler, UPol can on left, i don't wanna start itching like crazy so after roughing off the surface i blew the dust off i hopped into a cold shower to rinse it off., leaving for work in 10...

I have a lot more mud to apply yet.

[71blksuper4x4]

As Vic has previously said most of it, from my own experience, I run a bead down the middle of the putty with hardener just to make sure it has enough (lord knows when I first started with bondo on my truck years ago, if you didn't put enough in, that was a real treat. Just make sure you have uniform color throughout the mix. Also, don't try to spot, feather it out, as it will save you on sanding time, and you won't get the high ripple effect. Trevor

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

Don't know if anybody has experience with this glass filler, UPol can on left, i don't wanna start itching like crazy so after roughing off the surface...

I'm not a big fan of kitty hair. I've used it on a few Corvettes, but it's tough to work. Same thing for fillers with aluminum powder as a component. Very hard to get them to feather out and look right. I stick with plastic fillers, mostly. Some are lightweight and marketed as easy to grind, others are heavier due to the higher resin content which makes them less prone to shrink.

I noticed you have some "euro" spot putty. Most of these products are little more than acrylic lacquer in a tube. If you squeezed out a glob in a cup and mixed in lacquer thinner, you could spray it like primer. Never have found any that doesn't shrink - big time. Use it sparingly. Works best with tiny pinholes. Once the filler is worked down and the edges feathered out pretty well, I spray several heavy coats of 2K primer and block by hand. It will fill any pinholes and eliminate the need for the acrylic spot putty.

Primer out of a rattle can (even the "high build" stuff) has very little mil thickness. I recommend you invest in a $20 spray gun from HF, buy a quart of 2K primer and the activator and you'll see a world of difference. Don't worry about whether it comes out perfect, you're going to sand it anyway. Test the spray pattern on a sheet of newspaper taped to a wall and when it looks like a long narrow oval and doesn't run down the paper, you're good to go. A round pattern means too little air, a figure 8 pattern means too much. Both conditions are fixed with the top knob on the gun. The one below it controls the amount of paint coming out. Air pressure at the gun should be between 10 and 30 psi, depending on the material being sprayed and your other adjustments. Take a deep breath and watch the magic happen. You'll be an expert in no time flat. If you run into a problem, post it up and we'll sort it out. There is no problem you'll run into that I haven't experienced at one time or another. And some, I'm embarrassed to say, I've seen more than once.

[Dean'smeanmachine]

looking good, spreading filler is a real art form

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by Vic1947

I'm not a big fan of kitty hair. I've used it on a few Corvettes, but it's tough to work. Same thing for fillers with aluminum powder as a component. Very hard to get them to feather out and look right. I stick with plastic fillers, mostly. Some are lightweight and marketed as easy to grind, others are heavier due to the higher resin content which makes them less prone to shrink.

I noticed you have some "euro" spot putty. Most of these products are little more than acrylic lacquer in a tube. If you squeezed out a glob in a cup and mixed in lacquer thinner, you could spray it like primer. Never have found any that doesn't shrink - big time. Use it sparingly. Works best with tiny pinholes. Once the filler is worked down and the edges feathered out pretty well, I spray several heavy coats of 2K primer and block by hand. It will fill any pinholes and eliminate the need for the acrylic spot putty.

Primer out of a rattle can (even the "high build" stuff) has very little mil thickness. I recommend you invest in a $20 spray gun from HF, buy a quart of 2K primer and the activator and you'll see a world of difference. Don't worry about whether it comes out perfect, you're going to sand it anyway. Test the spray pattern on a sheet of newspaper taped to a wall and when it looks like a long narrow oval and doesn't run down the paper, you're good to go. A round pattern means too little air, a figure 8 pattern means too much. Both conditions are fixed with the top knob on the gun. The one below it controls the amount of paint coming out. Air pressure at the gun should be between 10 and 30 psi, depending on the material being sprayed and your other adjustments. Take a deep breath and watch the magic happen. You'll be an expert in no time flat. If you run into a problem, post it up and we'll sort it out. There is no problem you'll run into that I haven't experienced at one time or another. And some, I'm embarrassed to say, I've seen more than once.

Somewhere along the way somebody said this stuff was impervious to moisture, I mentioned what i was doing and was not able to say with 100% certainty that i could have missed a pin hole or two, even tho i sprayed the back side pretty heavy with some paint, yea i should have spread some seam sealer but didn't have any at the time.

I will say now that I'm not planning on using this stuff much more than just finishing this door, i feel like i have fiberglass itch syndrome. Live and learn, the paint supply place said this stuff won't make you itch, yea right. LOL!

If i have problems feathering this stuff out can i put a skim coat of a plastic filler over the top as long as its skuffed well?

I'll go ahead and try the high build spray can first, if it don't work then i'll switch to the gun approach, is it one of these tow?

http://www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-8...gun-67181.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-h...gun-47016.html

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

Somewhere along the way somebody said this stuff was impervious to moisture...

If i have problems feathering this stuff out can i put a skim coat of a plastic filler over the top as long as its skuffed well?

I'll go ahead and try the high build spray can first, if it don't work then i'll switch to the gun approach, is it one of these tow?

It's more moisture resistant than plastic filler, but not impervious. If you sealed it well on the back side of the panel, you should be fine.

You can absolutely lay down a skim coat of plastic filler over it. The 40 grit sandpaper you use to rough it in will leave a texture suitable for a skim coat.

They're the same gun, just with different part numbers. I have one and it's more of a finishing gun. The fluid tip is just barely big enough to shoot heavy primers. It has a gravity feed cup which sits above the body of the gun. The advantage is two-fold. One, it uses gravity instead of suction to feed the paint into the body of the gun. Two, it positions the cup above the gun which gets it more out of the way, particularly when doing level surfaces like the hood or roof. The downside is that you need a stand to fill the cup or set the gun down. HF sells them along with disposable cups if you're lazy like me.

I personally use a siphon cup 90% of the time. More capacity, easy fill, easy cleanup and the general purpose ones come with a 1.7 or 1.8mm tip which work great for primers. Here is an example.

[swamp rat]

Thanks Vic for the tips and link to the spray gun.

Round two:

I forgot to take a pic after sanding the first application of filler, but its apparent that i really need to build up the inner area of the gas door opening as well as a couple other areas, i'm trying to build it up but with the inner area of the door being open its hard to put any kind of pressure on the filler when i lay it on. This is going to make the flip door quite a bit lower than the surface so i don't know if i'm going to have to mud the flip door or if i'll be able to tweak the hinge to raise it up. Its also difficult to get the mud right where ya need it at the opening.

The area adjacent was a small crease, sanded after one application of mud, note the size of the pin holes and hope they are acceptable?

This round is gonna teach me about sloppy application going beyond the area the mud was needed, Gonna spend a little extra time sanding on this one.. I think i need a mud file.

Question, how long should i wait before i sand? this already seems to have kicked, but don't want to push it.

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

...This is going to make the flip door quite a bit lower than the surface so i don't know if i'm going to have to mud the flip door or if i'll be able to tweak the hinge to raise it up.

Do whatever's necessary to tweak the hinge. Mudding the door will only cause you grief. The buildup of filler around the door should work down quite a bit as you match the contour to the surrounding panel. Your flat DuraBlock with coarse sandpaper is your friend.

The area adjacent was a small crease, sanded after one application of mud, note the size of the pin holes and hope they are acceptable?

Honestly, they're really a bit too big to fill with primer. Get a quart of either regular plastic filler or better yet, Dynatron Putty-Cote, and spread a skim layer to get rid of the porosity. The root cause is the high resin content of your fiberglass filler. It entraps bubbles during mixing and application. When I do fiberglass repairs, I work the resin with a small acid brush to break up and redistribute the bubbles. Otherwise they become entombed when the resin sets up. Then when you shear the tops off while sanding ...instant pinholes.

This round is gonna teach me about sloppy application going beyond the area the mud was needed, Gonna spend a little extra time sanding on this one.. I think i need a mud file.

A cheese grater won't help much with kitty hair filler. Better to use 24 grit paper.

Question, how long should i wait before i sand? this already seems to have kicked, but don't want to push it.

As soon as it's fully catalyzed you're good to go. A good indicator is if the surface is firm, dry and slightly warm. If you jump on it too soon, it will want to peel away from the metal. If that happens, give it additional time to fully setup, sand the area to remove any loose material and reapply another coat of filler. Only you will know if you use one coat of filler or ten.

Vic

[swamp rat]

Had a DR appt today so that killed my afternoon... only had time to stop at the body and paint store.

I have come to the conclusion that i'm gonna sand off the majority of this glass based stuff and go plastic based, probably leave a small layer around the weld area but want to be able to completely cover the glass with the new stuff.

I talked to the body place down the street and she said this stuff is her most popular, some are more expensive and a bit more sandable and some are less expensive, this one is suppose to be pretty easy to sand as well. So i bought it.

http://www.u-pol.co.uk/product-cat/9...ody-filler.htm

she also highly recommended the Dolphin Glaze but i was not sure if i would want the glaze or possibly the Dolphin Putty instead after what Vic mentioned about shrinking..??? or just go ahead and try using the stuff i already have if i have pin holes to fill.

http://www.u-pol.co.uk/product-cat/9...and-glazes.htm

There is also a good video on mixing the filler as well;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2oFFSkDNQM

I'll try and get it sanded off tomorrow before work.

[swamp rat]

Ok, sanded off almost all the glass, all that's left is level with the surface of the door opening, good riddance to that stuff.

I thought I'd post a series of shots with a straight edge to show what I'm up against and why i slathered on the glass as thick as i did, the heat from welding did cause a lot of shrinking, i didn't know about planishing each spot weld as i went to help keep the shrinking at bay. Keep in mind also this panel already had some body damage prior to welding in the door. I know its not gonna end up perfect but don't want it to be painfully obvious there was prior damage.

First series of shots are from above, top to bottom, hard to focus when you cant see the screen but i think there is enough detail. starting at the top the panel surface has pulled in, you can see a lot of low spots as you move down, probably some about .100 deep.

[swamp rat]

Heres a series of shots from the side, again sorry about the focus..

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by Vic1947

I noticed you have some "euro" spot putty. Most of these products are little more than acrylic lacquer in a tube. If you squeezed out a glob in a cup and mixed in lacquer thinner, you could spray it like primer. Never have found any that doesn't shrink - big time. Use it sparingly. Works best with tiny pinholes. Once the filler is worked down and the edges feathered out pretty well, I spray several heavy coats of 2K primer and block by hand. It will fill any pinholes and eliminate the need for the acrylic spot putty.

Vic here's a pic of the Euro Glaze, Polyester paste with Styrene, question is can it be used over bondo to fill tiny pin holes only? no skin coating just filling holes before primer? is does say it will adhere to most plastics.

Again i bought this stuff quite a while back and cant find a receipt, would like to use it if its ok.

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

Vic here's a pic of the Euro Glaze, Polyester paste with Styrene, question is can it be used over bondo to fill tiny pin holes only? no skin coating just filling holes before primer? is does say it will adhere to most plastics.

Again i bought this stuff quite a while back and cant find a receipt, would like to use it if its ok.

Yes, it will work as a filler for the pinholes. The high styrene content means you need to let it cure completely before spraying any primer. Styrene is the solvent used to dilute resins in body repair products. If you entrap it, later on it will "out gas" and cause bubbling. I rarely use spot putty (glaze) anymore but when I did, I'd let it cure for a day or two before sanding and applying primer. The extended cure time will also give you an idea of how much it shrinks. Nowadays, I just prime the heck out of it with a quality 2K primer, block off the excess and that usually takes care of the pinholes.

That said, I also realize you've already invested in these materials, so I'd vote to use them. Just take your time, these products don't like to be hurried very much. You can speed up the process some with heat lamps, or by rolling it outside on a warm day, but cure time is important.

There's a shop here in KC that's built some nice hot rods. They had a car in a couple of years ago that was done on the TV show Overhaulin'. It was there for an exterior redo, in large part because the crew that originally painted it just didn't have the time to let the materials setup. That stuff comes back to haunt you.

[swamp rat]

Stupid question 101:

After block sanding you still have low spots and need to apply more mud, do you need to hand sand the low areas for proper adhesion? I'm assuming so.

One thing i can say is i sure like working with Bondo better than that glass crap, i just assumed the glass stuff was regular Bondo with glass added when i got it, nope!

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

Stupid question 101:

After block sanding you still have low spots and need to apply more mud, do you need to hand sand the low areas for proper adhesion? I'm assuming so.

One thing i can say is i sure like working with Bondo better than that glass crap, i just assumed the glass stuff was regular Bondo with glass added when i got it, nope!

No need to scuff it unless you want to. Just put down another layer of filler and repeat until there are no more low places.

[swamp rat]

Thanks Vic!

[swamp rat]

Well i come to the conclusion that laying Bondo is an acquired skill when you have to build up around an opening, first i thought i may have been using a little too much hardner, i couldn't apply all the way around the opening without messing up where i started, but i just figured i'm not fast enough so i had to do 1/2 the opening then wait and do the other half after i rough sand the ridges.. My fingers are sore tonight LOL!

Still need to work the body line a bit. But as a whole it looks a lot better in person than in the pic's, this is all rough sanded, took forever to find and work out the high spots, glad i decided to reference the other side of the bed because i had way too much of a crown built up that i would have missed had i not looked, it would have shown up in the primer i think.

These picks after i applied the last touch up coat.

[Dean'smeanmachine]

looks great!

[Dale_Brown]

As one machinist to another you do not need to hold that .0001 tolerance when doing body work. It sure looks great! Keep us posted!