Idea for spotting fake shortbeds

[davepl]

With probably more shortbeds out there now than were ever built, I think it will become increasingly difficult to confirm the value (ie: originality) of a shortbed.

Of course the SPID lists it, but its easily faked (not easy to do, but easy to have it done for you).

I was thinking that most places I've lived list the vehicle wheelbase on the registration. So, if you're buying a shortbed, ask to see the oldest registration possible. I would wager that a lot of people do not update the vehicle registration info, and they obviously cannot do it retroactively.

So, if you have a registration from 10 years ago that shows it at 115, you've got some good clues. If it shows a longbed and the guy has some lame explanation like "Oh, that's a mistake they made I never bothered to fix" or "They list them all with the same wheelbase", just run away.

It's not a sure-fire test, of course, but just another heuristic to apply when verifying the originality of a shortbed.

And remember, you can't trust photos. I'm a total noob with Photoshop and made this without a problem, so a pro could easily do it with a vintage photo.

I'd also look for a "too smooth" area where the frame cut is typically done. An attempt to hide this will likely mean it's ground down, puttied, and painted. Original bare cast steel doesn't have that smooth sheen. Or at least I think they should be different.

Any other good tips?

I've been in a buying situation with a dealer where an X22 (RS/SS 396) had a fake cowl tag. The dealer played dumb, and may have been innocent. So keep in mind that just because the current owner can honestly tell you that he hasn't modified it, he can't know for sure what happened to it before he got it.

['68 Newtricks]

Good idea.

Mine is a C20 Cab and front body. It's on an original shortbed frame and uses an aftermarket bed. My registration and title don't hint to anything about the size of the truck. (unless you can brake down the VIN) My SPID is the only thing with the wheel base, plus it's a camper special, which was C20 only I think. Of course, I don't have that badging anymore, only my CST badges on the doors. I like the idea of having my original glove box, color, and SPID....so I'm no looking to hide anything.

[SPUdMurphy]

Unless you are looking for a concourse condition all stock classic truck, I don't see how a long >>short conversion negatively effects the value of a custom truck?

I'm interested to hear what everyone's opinions are.

[leddzepp]

Look for the middle stake pockets on the bed. It's an obvious giveaway that the bed has been cut down. No paperwork needed, no SPID pic required. They are left behind 90% of the time. Even if the tops of the bedsides have been "filled in", the pockets will remain.

[hamjet]

You're cutting down the frame and box to make it a short bed, Does that makes it worth less? Then does cutting the frame to install C channels and removing springs for bags, widening tubs to make room for wider tires, customizing interior with different dashes, shaving doors, or any other heavy mods decrease value? I don't think so..

[72MARIO]

How about a sticker that says " fake short bed".

I didn't realize people acutually cared. A nice well built rust free truck should be what a buyer is looking for. If you can't spot a cut down lwb does it really matter ?

[aventur1]

Mine is cut down and I get lots of compliments and I tell them it's been cut down, professionally done by the previous owner who had the work done.
Although they did mess up on wheel base measurement and it's actually 2 in. shorter than a short box, hence the name shorter short box Ha
Oh well still looks good and it's all about what the buyer once if your selling. Suppose a custom at this point ( which is just fine with me) as with the rest of the truck, tires, lift, interior, stereo, seat belts, soft ray glass, overflow tank, dash cluster, headers and exhaust, door and window knobs, custom door panels, sound deadener etc etc etc.... Just making it my personal style that I'm happy with.

[slikside]

Originally Posted by hamjet

You're cutting down the frame and box to make it a short bed, Does that makes it worth less? Then does cutting the frame to install C channels and removing springs for bags, widening tubs to make room for wider tires, customizing interior with different dashes, shaving doors, or any other heavy mods decrease value? I don't think so..

Originally Posted by 72MARIO

How about a sticker that says " fake short bed".

I didn't realize people acutually cared. A nice well built rust free truck should be what a buyer is looking for. If you can't spot a cut down lwb does it really matter ?

It's all in the buyers perspective.

If it is important to *you* as a buyer to have an original shortbed, then it would be very important to that buyer that the seller is up-front about this issue. And since shortening is happening more and more now, such a buyer had better know how to spot one, because not every seller will be up-front about it. There have been several cases aired on this very forum about buyers who *thought* they were buying an original shortbed, and found out later they had not.

If it isn't that important to you as a buyer, I think you should still know about it before hand. That is one mod you need to have done correctly. Even if you don't care that it *was* done, you should indeed care *how* it was done. IMO, it is a mod in class all it's own. Most other mods don't compare in terms of potential consequences...

So to me, it's all about knowledge before hand. At least then *everyone* knows what is being bought and sold, and all can decide for themselves if/what they're willing to give/take for it.

This thread is one more tool to find out.

[67ChevyRedneck]

If they've gone through the trouble of hiding the frame and cutting out/removing the stake pockets... a lot of people don't seem to know about this. ALL longbed and longhorn trucks have a CURVED radius in front of the rear wheel whereas on shortbeds, blazers, and suburbans the area is squared off in front of the rear fender.

Of course, this only holds true if the bed was cut down... they could always use an aftermarket bed or real shortbed sides.

1st pic is longbed with curve, second is shortbed squared off.

Aside from high dollar restored CST's and Cheyennes... I really don't believe a cut down truck hurts the value much. I would question the work and inspect it thoroughly, and if done right, I would pay as much for a cut down truck as a "real" one. It definitely INCREASES the value of truck (that was once a longbed), as I think we could all agree that any shortbed, cut down or original is worth more than a longbed in the exact same condition.

[Livrat]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

If they've gone through the trouble of hiding the frame and cutting out/removing the stake pockets... a lot of people don't seem to know about this. ALL longbed and longhorn trucks have a CURVED radius in front of the rear wheel whereas on shortbeds, blazers, and suburbans the area is squared off in front of the rear fender.

Of course, this only holds true if the bed was cut down... they could always use an aftermarket bed or real shortbed sides.

1st pic is longbed with curve, second is shortbed squared off.

Aside from high dollar restored CST's and Cheyennes... I really don't believe a cut down truck hurts the value much. I would question the work and inspect it thoroughly, and if done right, I would pay as much for a cut down truck as a "real" one. It definitely INCREASES the value of truck (that was once a longbed), as I think we could all agree that any shortbed, cut down or original is worth more than a longbed in the exact same condition.

I mostly agree with you, except for one item that I did not notice for many years, not all longbeds have the curve you mention, 1967 "only" longbeds are not curved in the lower front wheel well.

[Fitz]

Before I buy I put it on a lift. It's pretty hard to cover up the VIN stamped on the frame or the welds behind the cab where the frame was shortened.

If the vin on the frame is missing or does not match the VIN plate on the B pillar me and my money are gone.

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by hamjet

Then does cutting the frame to install C channels and removing springs for bags, widening tubs to make room for wider tires, customizing interior with different dashes, shaving doors, or any other heavy mods decrease value? I don't think so..

I don't either. It just makes the truck different, and let's face it, there isn't exactly a shortage of them with an average yearly production of 225,000 between 1967 and 1972.

So, with resto-mods being in vogue at the moment, the "restored to factory original" might appeal to some but don't count on getting your money back when you sell.

As for me, I like hot rods. Modified to the max, with a BIIIGGGG motor gets my blood flowing. A stocker simply won't do that. But, then, that is the difference between us in the truck hobby isn't it?

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by Livrat

I mostly agree with you, except for one item that I did not notice for many years, not all longbeds have the curve you mention, 1967 "only" longbeds are not curved in the lower front wheel well.

Say Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? Man. Still learn new crap every day!

So I googled pics of 67 and 68 C10s looking for trucks with original looking paint... and yup, 67 long beds are straight and 68+'s are curved!

It's crazy GM would make a design change like that. I could understand if they were like that from the beginning, but to change after one year? That requires new stamps, $$$,... I wonder what the reasoning was? So 45 years later we could discuss cut down longbeds?

[boraxman]

[Livrat]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

Say Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? Man. Still learn new crap every day!

So I googled pics of 67 and 68 C10s looking for trucks with original looking paint... and yup, 67 long beds are straight and 68+'s are curved!

It's crazy GM would make a design change like that. I could understand if they were like that from the beginning, but to change after one year? That requires new stamps, $$$,... I wonder what the reasoning was? So 45 years later we could discuss cut down longbeds?

I wondered that too. I have been around these trucks for over 30 years and only noticed that about 10 years ago.
Funny thing that its only 68-72 long beds that have that curve, All shortbeds, 1967 longbeds, all Blazers and Suburbans do not.

[Ackattack]

The rear cab mounts would also most likely be bolted on rather than riveted in a conversion.

My 68 is an original shortbed, but I did cut down the 69 that I had. IMO an original SWB > cut down SWB > LWB in the same condition. This also assumes that the conversion is done properly. When I sold my conversion, I was up front with the buyer on the conversion.

[Cash3481]

I have bought a lot of SWB trucks in the last few years. Ive seen a lot of people converting them as well. I have seen a trend that people are doing to "Aid them" with the DMV.
Our inspector here for the last several years was very knowledgeable and particular about everything he inspected. He turned away more hotrod people than he cleared but has since retired. but anyway...
People are grinding, then welding over the frame vin and then restamping the vin in the new frame. Its nice for a guy that has a small tweek in the frame or wrecks his truck and is repairing the frame or even wants to convert to a SWB and not have a hassle at the DMV, but, but, but its also a way to cheat people on trucks so please keep a lookout for that...

[SPUdMurphy]

Originally Posted by hamjet

You're cutting down the frame and box to make it a short bed, Does that makes it worth less? Then does cutting the frame to install C channels and removing springs for bags, widening tubs to make room for wider tires, customizing interior with different dashes, shaving doors, or any other heavy mods decrease value? I don't think so..

Originally Posted by 72MARIO

How about a sticker that says " fake short bed".

I didn't realize people acutually cared. A nice well built rust free truck should be what a buyer is looking for. If you can't spot a cut down lwb does it really matter ?

Great to know i'm not alone in thinking that this is crazy. lol.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by Livrat

I wondered that too. I have been around these trucks for over 30 years and only noticed that about 10 years ago.
Funny thing that its only 68-72 long beds that have that curve, All shortbeds, 1967 longbeds, all Blazers and Suburbans do not.

Thinking about it... I guess they had to remake/modify the stamps in 68 anyway for the federal turn signal requirement and made the change then... but again... as we've talked about, EVERY other model was "square" so why go to "round" for just the longbeds/longhorns?

[cleanfreak]

Originally Posted by Fitz

Before I buy I put it on a lift. It's pretty hard to cover up the VIN stamped on the frame or the welds behind the cab where the frame was shortened.

If the vin on the frame is missing or does not match the VIN plate on the B pillar me and my money are gone.

Has it been posted here that some frames do not have the vin stamped in them?

[RManson]

What about the longbed truck that's been swapped with an aftermarket short wheelbase chassis and shortbed? Worth more? Worth less? Worth inbetween? lol

Personally I couldn't care less as long as the work was done right. Then again, I'm not the type of person who loses sleep over "non-original" appointments.

I would be more concerned about botched body and sheetmetal repairs as those can get expensive. Swapping a frame is kinda easy.

[Rocket3]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

If they've gone through the trouble of hiding the frame and cutting out/removing the stake pockets... a lot of people don't seem to know about this. ALL longbed and longhorn trucks have a CURVED radius in front of the rear wheel whereas on shortbeds, blazers, and suburbans the area is squared off in front of the rear fender.

Of course, this only holds true if the bed was cut down... they could always use an aftermarket bed or real shortbed sides.

1st pic is longbed with curve, second is shortbed squared off.

Aside from high dollar restored CST's and Cheyennes... I really don't believe a cut down truck hurts the value much. I would question the work and inspect it thoroughly, and if done right, I would pay as much for a cut down truck as a "real" one. It definitely INCREASES the value of truck (that was once a longbed), as I think we could all agree that any shortbed, cut down or original is worth more than a longbed in the exact same condition.

Thanks for that bit of info on difference in bed sides. I did not know that.

[Craftsmen]

I don't know about fake ones but here the real McCoy😜

[jjzepplin]

Originally Posted by Craftsmen

I don't know about fake ones but here the real McCoy😜

See now that's just nice! But if it was a cut down frame I would swap the frame out asap! Just don't trust some peoples skills. I saw a real nice looking shortbed in the parking lot so I had to go check it out. Walking over I could see it had a body lift. When I got closer I could see the frame was cut and a big section was missing. The missing part was replaced with angle iron. one piece on the top and one on the bottom and a big air gap between them. And this boob was driving that death trap. I left a note on the windshield to get that junk off the road.

[Cash3481]

Lots of debate on here so far and many good points. Here's a question for everyone who says an original shortbeds are worth the same as cut down ones...
1. Do you also think an NOS hubcap is worth the same as a cap that was worked over to look new?
2. more importantly would you pay the same for it as a NOS one?

I don't think any one is saying a persons beautifully restored truck isn't nice (we all love these trucks)... Remember, it's about the sellers honesty, quality of workmanship and the truck as an entire package.
To me there is enough out there to find one and convert your frame just make sure there isn't anything wrong with the potential frame your moving over to.
Sorry for the rambling...