starter motor

[yoshi]

Anyone fitting a starter motor make sure its shimmed up correctly

[geezer#99]

That starter nose crack isn't from shimming. Usually caused by incorrrect bolts or lack of a rear starter brace.
Another possibility is incorrect initial timing.

[mr48chev]

Geezer#99 pretty well nailed it on all three counts.

You have to have the correct GM starter bolts.

It truly needs the brace from the extended bolt on the other end of the starter to the block to keep it from flexing and bouncing.

If the timing is off and the engine backfires or kicks back it can do that.

I just went through 2 and 3 with the Cadillac 500 I put in my 71 GMC and ended up with similar results and had to buy a new starter endframe.

[franken]

With 48 above.
Not to mention that starter never came on a 47-59 (this subforum) truck.
I recall turning a guaranteed 454 starter into a morraca when the timing was off.

[1project2many]

If the timing is off and the engine backfires or kicks back it can do that.

I just went through 2 and 3 with the Cadillac 500 I put in my 71 GMC and ended up with similar results and had to buy a new starter endframe.

I replaced three starters in two weeks right after I built a high comp 455 Buick in my younger days. A little spark a few degrees too early can blow the nose clean off the starter.

[mr48chev]

Yoshi, do you have one of these brackets?




If you can find one you could just replace the end frame housing rather than buy a complete starter. New ones are usually under 20.00 US.

[Highsider]

I made my own brace with a bit of angle, a hacksaw, drill and a tack weld.

[yoshi]

No I don't have one of those brackets, is it held to the engine by the cooling plug?

[Highsider]

Originally Posted by yoshi

No I don't have one of those brackets, is it held to the engine by the cooling plug?

My SBC had an unused threaded hole on the side of the block. Maybe 5/16" to 3/8" dia X 1" long.

[yoshi]

Cant see anything in that area except what i found out after getting a wet arm, to be a cooling plug!

[1project2many]

For a Chevrolet V8 I would skip the brace and the heavy, old technology starter for one of these permanent magnet types, commonly found on GM trucks made from 1996+



http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-CHEVY-...item1c23cadb03

They last much longer between replacements and provide more torque as well. There are some additional parts required. You'll need another long attaching bolt and the small eye terminal to the solenoid will probably need to be replaced. Most people find the investment pays off over time.

There is a version available for engines using the smaller flywheel, too.

[Highsider]

While we are on the subject of starters, I installed this remote solenoid after having many "hot start" issues. Maybe this will be of use to someone.

The small purple wire is from the key. I use the LH large post for headlight and fan relay hookups.



I think this labeled "unusual" is that the S is usually found on the RH post. They are labeled.

[yoshi]

When using the original GM bolts should I use a flat washer & spring washer on each bolt?

[geezer#99]

No washers used at all.
Do you have the knurled shoulder bolts?

[yoshi]

Yes knurled part is just under thread. How exactly do you check gap with the paper clip?

[Speedbumpauto]

You have to remove the solenoid and manually engage the drive to the ring gear. Not the easiest thing to do, especially on the vehicle. Before you get wrapped around the axle about brackets, correct bolts, washers, etc, IMO it was your wild variations in timing that broke that starter. I have violated virtually every one of those rules in my career and never broke a starter housing, but then I've never ran a hose from the intake manifold to the water pump either. You are letting "too many cooks make your soup." There is lots of advice here and much of it is opinion, not always good but always well intentioned. Now that you have a timing light, use it to set initial timing and your problems will start to go away. There is only so much real help you can get from the internet. It's kind of like sex, you can talk about it and read about it but sometimes you just have to be there to get the best result. find someone you trust to help you actually lay hands on that truck. I don't mean to offend, but I'm convinced, like I think many others here are, that if I had 2 hours with that truck it would be sorted out. I know you can find someone like that where you are. I do admire your tenacity. Good luck.

[yoshi]

Ok thanks, do I just go for it without any shims & see how it go's?

[geezer#99]

Speaking of poor advice, you don't need to remove the solenoid to actuate the gear.
A straight awl will reach in and move the gear easily.

[Speedbumpauto]

I can't tell you that. A good ear can tell, usually, if the starter is binding and needs shims. I almost always remove the solenoid and manually engage the drive gear by moving the plunger back and forth, but I do it on an engine run stand where it's easier. If you have good access you could do the same. By slightly moving the engine ring gear, there should be a spot where you can slide the starter drive pinion gear in to engagement easily with your hand moving the plunger back and forth. Don't worry if it doesn't disengage quite as easily because the spinning of the running engine will take care of that. If you can't ENGAGE it easily, put a shim in and see if it gets better and repeat until it does. In todays world of trashy tolerances, I'd really tell you to put a .060 shim(big one) in it, bolt it together and you'll be fine, but I can't guarantee it. Listen to what it tells you when you start it. It's pretty hard to overshim these things. And "I" always use an SAE flat washer on those bolts because they tighten on an aluminum housing. No spring washer!

[yoshi]

awl?

[Highsider]

...of the correct diameter. A drill bit works too.

[Speedbumpauto]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Speaking of poor advice, you don't need to remove the solenoid to actuate the gear.
A straight awl will reach in and move the gear easily.

And you're the one who chided someone for telling him to set the timing by the total advance method and I agree with you. Not the best advice to give to a less experienced person. Now you're telling the same person to stick an "awl" in the starter drive and pry the pinion forward? You're asking him to differentiate between the pressure of the gear engagement and pressure of the return spring and it's all easy? I stand by what I said.

[yoshi]

I don't think the housing is alloy, also there's a recess at each bolt hole as seen in the top picture

[Speedbumpauto]

The recessed holes are on the side that goes against the block in picture 1, but there could be recesses on the bolt side. The SAE washers fit into those recesses if they are there. You're right, the old starter isn't alloy, but most replacements are. Thought I saw a pic. of one you purchased but I guess it was someone elses example.

[Old Crow]

If you're going to use the awl method, make sure and disconnect the battery before you start prying the pinion. If you pry far enough, you'll engage the starter and that could be hard on the fingers.