Supercharger for my Apache

[Z10]

Originally Posted by Advanced Design

Nice job Dice, EE and Z10! The airbox modification looks good and all the screws almost look clocked.

What will the next project be?

Well personally, I think he could have crammed 2 more screws in their for an even 50.

[diceman50]

Originally Posted by diceman50

I hope to start the engine swap on my 58 Apache soon so I recorded some performance runs with a GTECH Pro. This will give me something to compare after the engine swap and supercharger installation. I made several 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile runs and averaged them. As it turns out the 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile times were almost the same.

0 to 60 avg = 21.88 seconds
1/4 mile avg = 22.10 @ 63.3 MPH

Since I know the weight of the truck (4160 lbs.) I used an online horsepower calculator to estimate the rear wheel horsepower. Using the trap speed method it came out to 82.3 horsepower. Using the elapsed time method it was 76.2 horsepower for an average of 79.25.

Then I used another online calculator for rear wheel to flywheel horsepower which came out at 101 horsepower. My service manual says the brake horsepower is 145. I know that manufacturers used gross instead of net numbers in 1958, but that seems like a lot of difference to me. However, since my power numbers are all calculated instead of measured it is really hard to compare them. Besides it really doesn't matter since I just wanted something to compare later.

I wish I had thought about doing this before I put the fuel injection and dual exhaust on the truck. From a seat of the pants perspective I know the truck runs much better than it did with the stock induction and exhaust, so it must have been really anemic before. When I bought the truck the drivetrain appeared to be all original so I assume all the internals are stock.

It was with much anticipation that I decided to do my after comparison today. I can tell by driving the truck that it runs much better, but I didn't expect it to be this dramatic of a change.

I did the 0 to 60 mph runs first and couldn't believe the results! As a matter of fact I did about 6 runs to make sure.

0 to 60 avg = 11.83 seconds That's 10 seconds faster.
1/4 mile avg =19.29 @ 74.8 MPH

Using the online calculators the trap speed HP was 134.15 and the elapsed time HP was 114.25 for an average of 124.20. That makes the calculated flywheel HP 152.

Like I said I couldn't believe the 0 to 60 times so I found an online 0 to 60 calculator and used 124.20 rear wheel HP and it estimated 11.64 seconds which is certainly within the margin of error.

I say that's not bad for a 2 ton brick. It certainly exceeds my goals for this project. EE says there may be a few more HP in the tune, if so great if not I am very satisfied.

Thanks for all the positive comments and I will be posting progress reports good or bad.

[Advanced Design]

That is a substantial improvement that I bet you can really feel in seat of the pants driving. The smiles per mile ratio is probably way up too.

Ron, when you do your next project please be sure to link it here so we can follow along.

[diceman50]

Originally Posted by Advanced Design

That is a substantial improvement that I bet you can really feel in seat of the pants driving. The smiles per mile ratio is probably way up too.

Ron, when you do your next project please be sure to link it here so we can follow along.

Thanks A/D, will do. Nothing like a little success with a project to get you revved up for the next one.

[FarmerSid]

Wow! What a difference! Glad for ya.

[Average Joe]

Wow! Pert near cut 0-60 in half! Thats awesome congrats on a job well done.

[OutlawDrifter]

nice improvement! i bet it sure is fun to drive.

[Purcell69]

Very impressive change in the numbers! Not to mention seamlessly blending old and new technology and craftsmanship. It has been well worth the wait!

-Joe

[diceman50]

Thanks guys!!!

I am certainly glad to have successfully finished this project, but a little sad also. It has been a very challenging project at times, but very satisfying and a lot of fun working with EE and Z10 on it. EE has been working on it with me since the beginning which has been 4-5 years. If we had thought it through a little better we might not have ever started. We decided we wanted to fuel inject a 6 cylinder engine with 3 intake runners using 2 throttle bodies and 4 injectors. And then put a supercharger on it. WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG? Well, as it turns out a lot of things. However, nothing we weren't able to overcome.

Thanks again, on to the next project.

[ratty 46]

Very high tech on a low tech project - I loved every bit so far.

R46

[diceman50]

With almost 500 miles on the new engine and supercharger the truck is running great. EE is still tweaking the VE tables but it is mostly to correct something he doesn't like in the data logs and nothing you can feel while driving. The trucks drivability is very good and is comparable to a modern vehicle. Acceleration is very smooth with no hesitation, stumbles, surging, or hiccups at all.

While researching the McCulloch supercharger I discovered that the ball drive system they use builds a lot of heat which can cause the need for frequent rebuilds. In an effort to be proactive I decided to see if I can supply some cool air to the oil sump of the unit.

There is a set of louvers on each side of the radiator core support for the horns. I decided to relocate the horn and use the one on the drivers side for the fresh air supply. Someone had drilled a big ugly hole it at some time probably for an A/C line so I cut the louvers out for a clear hole for the air to enter.

Then I fabricated a 3" x 6" rectangular to a 3" round transition to route air to the supercharger. I had to dust off my geometry skills from high school and do some Google research to pull it off, but it worked out pretty well. I want to get a thermocouple attachment for my Fluke meter to test the effectiveness.

[BC Toy chest]

Awesome work , you got some mad-skills. Keep the photos coming.

[ptc]

Nice Job youz guyz!!!!

[Z10]

Nice work my friend!

[Advanced Design]

Great idea, impressive execution. Can I come apprentice with you for awhile?

[diceman50]

Thanks everyone. You can come anytime A/D, but I'm afraid it might be a slow and painful apprenticeship. I have often wished that I had someone like you nearby that I could pick up some paint and body tips from.

[Average Joe]

Originally Posted by BC Toy chest

Awesome work , you got some mad-skills. Keep the photos coming.

I second this. Quality work!

[diceman50]

1000 mile update

Just turned over a thousand miles on the new engine and nearly eight hundred on the supercharger. I am happy to report that everything is working great. EE was concerned that we were getting close to the maximum duty cycle on the fuel injectors when the engine is under boost. So, instead of changing the injectors to a larger size we raised the fuel pressure from 3 bar to 4 bar. (43.5 to 58 psi) This effectively increased their output about 12 % and put us back in the safe zone.

[crossfire84]

Just too cool!

[wolffcub]

wish we could get more vids of it driving from in the cab and outside.

[diceman50]

Thanks, I'll see what I can do. My computer skills are basic to say the least.

[diceman50]

On post 186 I documented building a cold air duct to help cool the supercharger oil. At that time I said that I would like to get a thermocouple for my meter to test the effectiveness of said duct. Well I finally found one on EBay for a reasonable price. First I built a probe that fits in the dipstick hole and inserted the thermocouple wire into it and sealed the end with heat shrink tubing.



For test one I removed the duct and cut some louvers in a piece of sheet metal to simulate the conditions before I installed the duct. I also left the type "F" transmission fluid in the unit.





Here are some pictures of the rest of the rig.







The test run was approximately 14 miles round trip at 75 MPH and the maximum oil temperature was 220 degrees. Ambient temperature was 72 degrees.

For test two I removed the louvered sheet metal and replaced the duct. Then I drove the same route at the same speed. Ambient temperature was 73 degrees. The results were somewhat disappointing, but I did see a 4 degree drop in the maximum temperature. (216 degrees) I was hoping for more.

I read on a McCullough web site that "B & M Synthetic Trick Shift" transmission fluid would reduce the oil temperature of these units and produce more boost because of less slippage.



When I looked for the synthetic B &M fluid I found out it has been discontinued. I don't know why. But, after an extensive Google search I was able to find 4 quarts.

So, for test three I left the cooling duct in place and replaced the type "F" transmission fluid with the B & M fluid. Same route, same speed, and same ambient temperature as test two. (73 degrees) I was pleasantly surprised at the results of this test. Maximum temperature was 11 degrees less than test one and 7 degrees less than test two. (209 degrees) I didn't see or feel any extra boost but maybe EE can tell if there is any difference when he has his data logger on it.

I really would like to get the oil temperature below 200 degrees and I have an idea for a heat sink that might take better advantage of the extra air provided by the cold air duct. More on that later. At least this gives me a little more of a cushion before the oil temperature gets into the danger zone. I understand bad things happen to ATF at about 240 degrees.

I have a friend that claims to know a lot about oil chemistry and he swears by the following product.



Since I had everything set up I decided to go into Mythbusters mode.

A 7.5 oz bottle is supposed to treat a transmission with 12 quarts of oil in it so I figured 1/2 oz should treat the 8 oz of oil in my supercharger.

For test four I added 1/2 oz of the treatment to the B & M oil in the unit. Same route, same speed, and 73 degree ambient temperature.

This test produced the highest temperature of the day. (221 degrees) Sorry Ricky "BUSTED". It might work better in a transmission but I am skeptical.

The results of test four required a fifth test be done. For this one I flushed out the oil with the transmission treatment in it and replaced it with the B & M fluid. Everything else was the same except the ambient temperature was 75 degrees by now. Despite the increase in ambient temperature I was able to duplicate the results of test three with a maximum oil temperature of 209 degrees. This back to back to back test gives me confidence in the results.

[joedoh]

is the oil moving in the supercharger? can you add a plate cooler and pump (if splash oiling)? convection is just a terrible method of cooling without significant fins or surface area. if you are really looking for max gains by convection, get the black paint off (not because its black, but because it smooths the surface) and you can even sandblast or glass bead the case for more surface area. I would almost bet the 4 degree difference (duct/no duct) could be attributed to ambient changes other than temperature (sun angle for example)


your duct only works when you are moving, temps will spike when you come to a stoplight because the heat soak will reach equilibrium (the oil will be as hot as the case with enough time). I remember doing heat soak analysis on an aircraft cabin, the cabin of an unattended aircraft parked on the tarmac would eventually reach max temperature without some kind of airflow, insulation and window shades just extended the amount of time it took.

anyway, fascinating project!

[diceman50]

Thanks for your reply joedoh. We are thinking along the same lines it seems. Yes, the oil is moving inside the unit. There is an internal pump to force oil through the bearings. People use external pumps and heat exchangers to cool the oil on these units, but I don't like the looks or the complexity involved. Most of them are on high boost max power installations.

My supercharger is a variable speed unit that I converted to direct drive by removing the variable speed parts and cutting off the front of the housing. The flat plate behind the pulley is a piece of aluminum that I epoxied on to clean up the front of the unit.



My idea is to replace that flat 1/8" plate with a 1/4" one with fins milled into it and then attach it with thermally conductive epoxy. I think your suggestion of no paint is also a good idea. I think that should be sufficient to reduce the oil temp on this relatively low output application to a safe level.

I am also exploring the use of ceramic balls and bearings for this unit. People who have done it report much lower oil temps. Besides I like the idea of it. I have several of these units, so I will probably build a new unit with these improvements and use the present one as a spare.

Thanks again for your reply and suggestions.

[diceman50]

Thought I would give you an update. I can't believe it has been 2 years since we finished this project. The truck is still running well with only some minor issues along the way. I have put several thousand miles on it since my last post, but I don't drive it as much as I used to. I injured my shoulder about a year ago (along with some other health issues) and the lack of power steering made it difficult to drive the truck. Shoulder is better now and I drove it to a cruise last weekend. Felt good to get it out.

Also, I have moved on to another project that doesn't fit the criteria for this site. Although it does have an S10 chassis under it.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Thanks "Diceman"