Sheet Metal Quality

[Super_Dave]

So, Project BABA YAGA! is waiting on several orders to arrive. In the interim, I am starting my due diligence for round two, when Body and Paint come into view.

I have a pristine replacement OEM hood that I got for $50 when I discovered the inner skin on my hood nose was cancerous. However, I am really being pulled toward the cowl induction hood. I guess my '69 Z/28 days still have a strong subliminal presence!

Now, almost every vendor sells a functional cowl induction hood. This brings into play, the age old question as to which one(s) carry the good stuff and who carries crap.

For instance, I looked at GMC Pauls and he carries the hood made by the same mfg. who makes Goodmark. He gets high praise and it sounds like a quality product. Top Banana, who seems to appear at the top of the list of a lot of quality questions, carries the hood and I have yet to hear back from them as to who manufactures it.

The price differential between the two vendors is $124 delivered. That's substantial enough to question quality differences before purchasing. While I am waiting to hear back from Top Banana, can anyone shed any additional light on these vendors and or the product? I have had no dealings with either one and any comment is welcome.

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EDIT:

Top Banana gets their parts from Key Parts in Virginia. They seem to have a great story. Anyone have any comparisons between them and the company that produces for Goodmark and GMC Pauls? Could it be Key Parts ships to both? Since you can't buy direct from Key Parts, it would be beneficial for the vendors to let people know who supplies their parts. What have they got to lose?

[Robert8096]

Got the Goodmark hood for both my 74 & 86. 86 fit better than the 74 but both were above average material thickness but nowhere close to OEM. Did you call and make sure it is a functional cowl hood? Both of mine did not have the round air cleaner hole in them.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by Robert8096

Got the Goodmark hood for both my 74 & 86. 86 fit better than the 74 but both were above average material thickness but nowhere close to OEM. Did you call and make sure it is a functional cowl hood? Both of mine did not have the round air cleaner hole in them.

Both GMC Pauls and Top Banana state they are fully functioning cowl induction hoods. What was off on your '74?

[Robert8096]

The 86 had better body gaps than the 74.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by Robert8096

The 86 had better body gaps than the 74.

Wow... the gaps on these trucks are bad to start with, so that isn't saying much!
The '86 does look a sight better.
Guess I will just have to weld the whole front end together and tilt it ala gasser style...

Thanks!

[AnotherWs6]

Wow, Key Parts. Used to use them for cheap fixes when I had a body shop. Some times things were spot on, sometimes they were pretty bad. Luck of the draw it seemed.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by AnotherWs6

Wow, Key Parts. Used to use them for cheap fixes when I had a body shop. Some times things were spot on, sometimes they were pretty bad. Luck of the draw it seemed.

So, why did you have to go and spoil my afternoon?!

I could always get the steel '69 Z/28 induction part and weld it to my OEM hood and not mess with the whole gap and gauge issues associated with a repro aftermarket CI Hood. Given the cost to purchase, ship, repair and install the repro, I might even be money ahead. Besides, most of the repro CI Hoods do not have the correct '69 Z/28 lip on them anyway and that's 90% of the looks!


Or leave it OEM... but that's not fun.

[AnotherWs6]

Scratch that, it was Keystone. If you do a search on their site it takes you to another site with a BUNCH of different hoods just to confuse you more.

http://keystoneautoparts.info/keysto...e-catalog.html

[gmachinz]

If I were to do a custom hood look, I would do a shaker setup. I modified a 79 Monte Carlo hood on a build many years back using a mid 70's Pontiac hood and shaker assembly....it was definitely a killer look! I have another setup in storage and I've got my eye on a clean 81 2WD Shortbox that I'm debating pulling the trigger on only because I think a 454/TH400 equipped Shortbox with a shaker setup will flip people out!

[87 STEPPER]

I bought a CI Hood from GMG Paul about 5 yr's ago at auto fest in Charlotte NC. to replace my POS Harwood CI Hood. I still haven't installed it so I can't really comment on fitment. But I can tell you this, Other that it letting in or out a lot of air they defiantly are not functional unless it has the vacuum flap door and plenum that seals around the air cleaner.

That's not saying that they haven't changed 'em.

But I myself have not seen a true functional cowl induction hood made for our truck's.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by gmachinz

If I were to do a custom hood look, I would do a shaker setup.

Dang... I say dang, son, I might just have to borrow that...

[gmachinz]

Originally Posted by Super_Dave

Da... I say damn, son, you might be on to something there...

lol!

[gmachinz]

Here's one....

[gmachinz]

Here's a fairly rare factory 74 GTO with a factory shaker....but you get the idea-I don't think I've ever seen somebody do one on a square yet tho.....

[Super_Dave]

I think I am partial to the Challenger Shaker Hood... I need to look into the design and see if I can laser cut the parts and weld up the basic shape. Then cut parts for the base using an air cleaner base as a pattern... With aftermarket and OEM's going for $1,800-$3,500... a knockoff is in order. I have a friend who has several containers full of vintage Chrysler parts... might be a good source for dimensions.

[AnotherWs6]

Originally Posted by 87 STEPPER

I bought a CI Hood from GMG Paul about 5 yr's ago at auto fest in Charlotte NC. to replace my POS Harwood CI Hood. I still haven't installed it so I can't really comment on fitment. But I can tell you this, Other that it letting in or out a lot of air they defiantly are not functional unless it has the vacuum flap door and plenum that seals around the air cleaner.

That's not saying that they haven't changed 'em.

But I myself have not seen a true functional cowl induction hood made for our truck's.

Vacuum flap has zero to do with functionality. It's just kept closed so water and S can't get in. If it was sealed to the air cleaner and didnt have a flap are you suggesting it wouldnt work?

They dont need to be sealed to the air cleaner. The high pressure air is still getting forced into the engine bay, and putting a supply of fresh, clean air around the general area of the intake. As good as sealed? Nope. Still functional? Yup.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by AnotherWs6

The high pressure air is still getting forced into the engine bay, and putting a supply of fresh, clean air around the general area of the intake.

There is a lot of air pressure at the base of the windshield and the air gets drawn in through the cowl induction. If sealing is the cats-meow, then the shaker forced induction from the front is a better choice.

In the end, some functionality is good but the overall look is also important for my non-stock project. The '69 Z/28 or Challenger style Shaker are both strong candidates.

[AnotherWs6]

^^^^^ Right, a shaker that extended close to the windshield would be most ideal. But then it would just look like a cowl.

And of course looks are important.

[gmachinz]

The trucks can prolly get away with using the longer style shaker base cleaner from the later 70's-say 1977-later TA's. The 78-88 Gbodies can't use the later style because it would cut into the firewall area-by sight I think the trucks can get away with it tho.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by AnotherWs6

^^^^^ Right, a shaker that extended close to the windshield would be most ideal. But then it would just look like a cowl.

And of course looks are important.

Actually, that ^^^ would be more of a Trans AM look...
I like the Challenger/'Cuda look with the front air intake and sealed over the carburetor.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by gmachinz

The trucks can prolly get away with using the longer style shaker base cleaner from the later 70's-say 1977-later TA's. The 78-88 Gbodies can't use the later style because it would cut into the firewall area-by sight I think the trucks can get away with it tho.

I think the key is going to be in the base. Wherever you place the base mount for the carburetor, will dictate how close it is to the windshield. Other than the exorbitant cost of an OEM, or even aftermarket, the main reason I would fab up a Shaker is so I can control where the base integrates into the scoop and run the scoop either forward or rearward as needed while keeping airflow over the carburetor.

I have the software, equipment and some expert welding help to design and fab one. I envision a three piece setup. The base unit on the carburetor, the lower half of the Shaker and the top half of the Shaker. I see the top half bolted to the lower half with SS Cap Screws. The base piece will use the same rubber weather seals that go on the doors. I really think a hybrid is very doable.

The second option is me making a two piece mould and creating a fiberglass/carbon fiber Shaker. I can make the mould but have never used fiberglass cloth. Wouldn't be my first choice.

[KQQL IT]

I got some keystone fenders on my 73, perfect no, thin yes but fit nice only one hole needed any reaming.
And I have a Harwood glass hood. Fit and finish is really decent.

[87 STEPPER]

Originally Posted by AnotherWs6

Vacuum flap has zero to do with functionality. It's just kept closed so water and S can't get in. If it was sealed to the air cleaner and didnt have a flap are you suggesting it wouldnt work?

They dont need to be sealed to the air cleaner. The high pressure air is still getting forced into the engine bay, and putting a supply of fresh, clean air around the general area of the intake. As good as sealed? Nope. Still functional? Yup.

You clearly do not understand the basic principals of how a true CI hood operates. If what you said above is in fact true then why did the designers go to all the troubles of having a hood that seals to the air filter assembly and having a vacuum operated flap door?

Here's why.....

The purpose of sealing the hood to the air cleaner is to keep the cooler dense high pressure air charge from mixing with that of the hot air within the confines of the engine compartment thus making more power.

Furthermore the flap door isn't there to keep out water dirt and other debris it's actual function is to open at high demands of the engine or WOT typically when the vehicle is operating at higher rates of speed when the air pressure is high as well so when the flap opens the high pressure air takes the path of least resistance and the engine is also sucking the air in as well because it's at WOT.

I hope that helps.

[gmachinz]

All GM style cowl hoods have a solenoid which opens the flper door when manifold vacuum drops to a certain level (aka WOT for example) and let's a rush of cool air in creating a little more dense intake charge.

Anyway, a shaker is a more creative approach simply because it involves more work to get it right and you need good (actually-excellent!) fab skills to pull it off correctly.

[Super_Dave]

I need to find dimensions of the Challenger Shaker online or in my buddies stash... this experiment is too long. I need to knock off a few inches from the back but that's an easy fix.

I know we can model it up into components and make a prototype. It's late and I need to get away from the box for a few hours.