Busted a bolt on the cowl vent

[rally]

I got 3 of the 4 out, but the last one I busted the head off the bolt (I can't remember the size off the top of my head, but want to say it was maybe a 5/8). Anybody have any tricks to getting it out?

I've soaked it in PB Blaster for a few days and tapped it lightly with a hammer, hoping to break some of the rust before I start, but I don't have an EZ out set or a way to cut a groove in the top of the shaft to spin it out with a screwdriver. It's probably too rusted to spin it out anyway. It's pretty much sitting flush, so I can't take a cutting wheel to cut the groove or grab it with vice grips, either. Was thinking maybe a chisel?

But I wanted to check with you guys to see if any of you had some cool tricks. I don't have the EZ Out set or a chisel set, so whatever route I take I'm going to have to buy the tools. So that leaves me open to suggestions.

[SeniorVerde]

I recently busted of a bolt on a hood hinge of my jeep. Flush, of course, and surrounded by nice paint.

I masked off the area and put down a wet towel around the broken bolt.
I held a nut over the bolt and welded it onto the shaft of the broke bolt, filling in the hole of the nut with weld from my wire feed.

I watched my heat, and was as careful as I could be with spatter- the thing unscrewed with a open end wrench- I swear that the heat helped too.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by SeniorVerde

I did this to remove a seat bolt that has rusted into place and broke. It worked and I wasn't perfectly centered either!

[rally]

Nice! That's a great idea. I have a MIG setup, but I'm running flux core...I don't have any shielding gas. Do you think that will be too hot? I can probably run down to the local welding shop and get a tank of CO2/Argon and swap the wire out, but if you guys think flux core won't get too hot and ruin the surrounding paint, I'll give that a shot first. With the wet towel, of course.

[davepl]

I'd bet for that little weld it should make no real difference. But I'm not a weldor, just a welder.

[rally]

Originally Posted by davepl

I'd bet for that little weld it should make no real difference. But I'm not a weldor, just a welder.

haha me neither. I used to do welding on military grade aluminum with a MIG welder with Argon, and did some stick welding in high school, but I was never trained and mostly learned through trial and error. And I've never ran flux core before, but picked it up because I was too lazy to get some shielding gas at the time. Hopefully, I learned enough not to ruin my paint removing that bolt...we will see.

[jeffahart]

That flux core is going to spatter. Get some easy outs, you need to have them around anyhow. If it broke the head off in the first place then the chisel or punch method probably wont work anyway. Plus with easy outs, your half way to a tap job, if it comes to that.

I'm an expert, I have one torque spec... tighten until it moves freely, then back off a quarter turn!

[dfwright]

In my experience, the flux core wire tends to throw flaming bits of slag everywhere much more so than when using gas. Be sure you protect everything within a 10ft radius

[rally]

Originally Posted by jeffahart

That flux core is going to spatter. Get some easy outs, you need to have them around anyhow. If it broke the head off in the first place then the chisel or punch method probably wont work anyway. Plus with easy outs, your half way to a tap job, if it comes to that.

I'm an expert, I have one torque spec... tighten until it moves freely, then back off a quarter turn!

Ok, I'll grab an easy out and a tap set. You're probably right...if it's stuck that bad, it might just take the threads with it when it comes out. Hopefully it doesn't turn into a helicoil job...

[rally]

Originally Posted by dfwright

In my experience, the flux core wire tends to throw flaming bits of slag everywhere much more so than when using gas. Be sure you protect everything within a 10ft radius

I'll try jeffahart's approach. If that doesn't work, or I do something awesome like break the easy out, I'll revert to the weld method. Do you happen to have a recommendation for gas for welding on these trucks? I'll pick up some gas so I don't have to worry about the flux core.

[rally]

Ouch...$200 later, I have a 75 piece tap and die set and a 9 piece easy out set on their way. Hopefully, that should keep me covered for a while.

[dfwright]

So I was referring to shielding gas, not oxy/acetylene gas welding, but assuming that your MIG welder is set up to use shielding gas, you had the right idea in your post above. I use 75/25 CO2/Argon mix for shielding gas on mine, with a .023 wire for welding on sheet metal, and I think a .030? (I'd have to go check) for welding on heaver steel.

If you're welding outside or in a windy area, the flux core is the only thing that works.

[rally]

Originally Posted by dfwright

So I was referring to shielding gas, not oxy/acetylene gas welding, but assuming that your MIG welder is set up to use shielding gas, you had the right idea in your post above. I use 75/25 CO2/Argon mix for shielding gas on mine, with a .023 wire for welding on sheet metal, and I think a .030? (I'd have to go check) for welding on heaver steel.

If you're welding outside or in a windy area, the flux core is the only thing that works.

I'm tracking on it being shielding gas. Thanks! My MIG is set up for using gas, I just never bought any. Here's a stupid question, though: I'm used to 100% Argon, so I don't know how mixed gases work. Are they sold as a single tank with mixed gas in it, or do I have to buy 2 different tanks and a regulator to set the ratio?

[dfwright]

It's a single tank with the gas mixture in it. They come in various sizes, get the biggest one you can afford, as they tend to run out at the most inopportune moments. Your welder should have come with the regulator and hoses if it's set up for shielding gas. All you should have to add is the tank.

[rally]

Thanks again. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

[palallin]

Try drilling it as you would for a NotEasyOut but frill with a left-hand cut drill bit. I've seen great results with the bolt coming out during the drilling process

[jeffahart]

Rally,
You may not need taps. Easy outs almost always work. Taping is the next step if the threads are jacked. That's what I meant.

A word about easy outs, since I think you may not have a lot of easy out experience.

Take a sharp punch and give the sheared bold a slight tap right in the center. Once you have a slight dimple, then put the punch in the dimple and give it a good sharp smack. I like a bit about 1/3 the size of the bolt. You need a good dimple so your bit don't wander when you start the hole. Oil and drill, oil and drill, slow and go, steady boy... you don't want to break that bit! Take your time. If you break a bit, it's not the end of the world just make a smaller hole next to the bit. I've broken a few bits when drilling and then had to drill a smaller hole next to broke bit(if you can not spin the bit out with needle noses) and still had success. I'm not patient, like your going to be. If you get a good deep straight hole, you will get it out easy(hence, easy out ), and with the threads in tact!

[rally]

Originally Posted by jeffahart

Rally,
You may not need taps. Easy outs almost always work. Taping is the next step if the threads are jacked. That's what I meant.

A word about easy outs, since I think you may not have a lot of easy out experience.

Take a sharp punch and give the sheared bold a slight tap right in the center. Once you have a slight dimple, then put the punch in the dimple and give it a good sharp smack. I like a bit about 1/3 the size of the bolt. You need a good dimple so your bit don't wander when you start the hole. Oil and drill, oil and drill, slow and go, steady boy... you don't want to break that bit! Take your time. If you break a bit, it's not the end of the world just make a smaller hole next to the bit. I've broken a few bits when drilling and then had to drill a smaller hole next to broke bit(if you can not spin the bit out with needle noses) and still had success. I'm not patient, like your going to be. If you get a good deep straight hole, you will get it out easy(hence, easy out ), and with the threads in tact!

Got it, thanks! And as far as the tap set, i actually have wanted a set for a while now. Especially for cleaning out the threads after pulling some of these bolts. I was more or less just looking for a reason to buy some. And if im going to buy taps, i might as well buy the die set too...snowball effect. Haha

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by rally

Got it, thanks! And as far as the tap set, i actually have wanted a set for a while now. Especially for cleaning out the threads after pulling some of these bolts. I was more or less just looking for a reason to buy some. And if im going to buy taps, i might as well buy the die set too...snowball effect. Haha

Well, using a tap to chase threads is generally not a good idea. The tap can cut the threads, then you have a worse fit that's more of a likely hood of stripping on torque. Be careful when you chase with a tap, do not force. Do a bit of an online search on tap vs thread chasing.

Also, when easy outing, it you don't get the bolt out on first bit bore fairly easy, drill a bit bigger bore and move up to next easy out size. Sometimes you end up boring a size right up to the threads and having to knock down a bit of thread on really stubborn messes. Then you just pick at the remaining bolt thread with a small screw driver or pick. Don't bore out all the threads!

What I usually do if I have to knock down some thread on removal.

I'm not a big fan of heli coils, or welding and adding heat if you can avoid(meaning welding filler).

What I've done quit a few times to clean up bad threads is:

JB weld, yes, it works great on threads. Here's what I do. I chase with tap, clean up the thread cavity of oil and muck. Vacum and then blow out with air. Once surface is prepped, load up the threads with JB weld. I like to use a tooth pick in a circular motion. I usually don't fill the whole cavity, only because it cures faster will smaller dose. Let it cure. then hone with drill bit and re-tap.

I just did this on an aluminum case on a stripped mounting bolt. And the bolt has been removed and re-torqued once since. So, I have faith in my process here.

Just an option for you, especially on something like a cowl. So you don't have to drill out for an oversized odd size bolt, or use a heli coil.

[In The Ten Ring]

I did this same thing a couple of years ago with one of my truck's fuel tank retaining bolts.

Center punch the broken bolt and drill completely through it with a small bit, progressively enlarge the hole with larger bits, one step at a time. You need to center punch as close as possible to the center. This may not be easy.

When I did this I lubed my drill bit with motor oil.

This relieves the pressure on the threads from the bolt's shaft. You may then try an easy out. I prefer the fluted easy outs that are hammered into the hole you drilled completely through the shaft.

You could also enlarge the hole until you nearly reached the threads and then chase out the rest with a tap set. *I have never done this but I have that coming up soon on my truck's grill assembly.

[In The Ten Ring]

Originally Posted by palallin

Try drilling it as you would for a NotEasyOut but frill with a left-hand cut drill bit. I've seen great results with the bolt coming out during the drilling process

I bought a set of left handed drill bits from Harbor Fake Tools. It was a complete waste of my money.

There are left handed drill bit sets out there that might be worth the money but they are very expensive.