running to lean???

[ocbaud]

we got the engine running, but i believe it may be running to lean.

i gets really really hot with only water in the system and both fans on. the number 6 plug boot even split in almost half because it was so hot.

what can i do to fix this?

[ocbaud]

also, the guy that put the engine together didnt install the harmonic balancer correctly. my balancer is degreed and he had it installed 90degrees off!!!


so we couldnt set the static timing because i didnt have 1. timing tape, 2. regular timing tab, 3. a timing gun.

i had everything set perfectly last night, static timing was set at 12 degrees and all that, but it would never start. i'm gonna be so f'n pissed if it wiped a cam lobe because of him not installed it i right

[toytruck]

Should of got that Holley.

[ocbaud]

Originally posted by toytruck
Should of got that Holley.

help only please

[low 84]

did you reinstall the balancer correctly and get it timed right? if not, that is #1 thing to do

[TIMSPEED]

Originally posted by low 84
did you reinstall the balancer correctly and get it timed right? if not, that is #1 thing to do

I second that..with timing THAT far off, it would DEFINATELY make it run hot/lean.

[rage'nrat638]

WHAT SIZE CARB....????

YOU DID GET A MSD DIZZY RIGHT??

[ocbaud]

i started the engine up at the correct tdc. the balancer was off exactly 90degrees. my balancer is marked on each 90degree part.

how much is a balancer puller?

[low 84]

unless your balancer has muliple keyways (and most don't) then it can only be installed one way.

balancer pullers are cheap and you can also rent them with a deposit from some parts stores.

[mike reeh]

I agree I dont think the balancer is installed wrong. This is a 355? Then it doesnt matter how it goes on anyways except for seeing the timing mark in the correct spot. on a 400 or 383 you might have some bigger issues w/ the balance weight being on the wrong side. But that shouldnt be your case.

im wondering how the tape got installed 90 degrees off. If he had the piston at BDC when he installed it, that would put it on the opposite side (180 degrees).. 90 degrees? I dunno!

different years of balancer had the zero degree mark in different spots (and the pointer in a different spot, accordingly) are you sure there wasnt a mix up?

a new engine + advanced timing = extreme heat

Dont worry too much about the cam lobe.. its not THAT easy to lose one especially if you assemble-lubed & pre-lubed well

mike

[ocbaud]

we used assebley lube, primed the oil pump, and poored in a bottle of eos

my balancer has a mark for every 90degree turn. also, its not tape on the balancer, the degree marks are part of it.

http://www.ocbaud.com/pictures/engine/3501.JPG

[ocbaud]

this is my balancer.

[mike reeh]

okay lets get to the bottom of this...

What kind of crank, and what kind of balancer are you using? Also what kind of timing cover are you using so I know where the timing pointer is?

are the 4 different marks on the balancer EXACTLY 90 degrees apart?

was there 4 different keyways on the balancer? Chances are that one of the marks is your true TDC. So wherever 12 degrees is on the "wrong" mark, go the same amont past the mark you have to put it at to make the engine run. makes sense? that should get you close enough. Once the engine is running, you should be able to tune the timing by ear to get it to idle decent, at least... if its running HOT then retard it (CLOCKWISE).. your idle will probably go down some.. these engines will run well at idle with some PRETTY F'd up timing settings. so dont be scared to give that distributor a good crank either direction.. I would go with small 1/4" (at the distributor cap circumference) turns until it will idle in gear.. If your headers start glowing, its running lean

mike

[ocbaud]

Originally posted by mike reeh


are the 4 different marks on the balancer EXACTLY 90 degrees apart?


mike

yes about the 90degrees on each side exactly apart. i dont knwo about the keyways.

so what i need to do now, is find the true tdc, and move it the same amount it would be if the balancer was installed correctly? and then start it up and it should be running better?

[mike reeh]

yes but first you need to answer the rest of my questions (and the others that you ignored).. we're trying to help you here and its just a stab in the dark if we dont know what parts & details we're dealing with. Give me some part #'s or model numbers & manufacturers, and I could at least look up the balancer on my own. I know you wanna get this thing running asap, and I dont blame you. I want you to get it running too, if I didnt I would be wasting my time right now. Help us help you.

mike

[low 84]

what i am thinkging is that the balancer you have is degreed for a 12 oclock timing pointer and you have a timing pointer at about 2 oclock. so if you have your timing set at the 90 degree mark in your pic you have it advanced way to much, it will need to be somewhere inbetween the 12 and 3 oclock marks on the balancer

basically you need to locate TDC on #1 and mark where your timing pointer is pointing on your balancer and disregard all other marks on your balancer. then use the method i described in your other thread to make your own timing tape and set the zero on it at the mark you drew on your balancer.

don't worry we all make mistakes like this

[ocbaud]

the balancer was exactly 90 degrees off. with the plug out of the #1 cylinder and me turning it, it blew out air right as it at one of the timing marks. if i had a regular timing tab, i could time it i'm sure. so right now as it stands, one of the big 90degree marks on the balancer is the correct tdc on #1.

i'll get part numbers in a second

[ocbaud]

balancer

timing chain cover

timing pointer

[TIMSPEED]

Originally posted by ocbaud
the balancer was exactly 90 degrees off. with the plug out of the #1 cylinder and me turning it, it blew out air right as it at one of the timing marks.

Ok, I don't see the problem? With the engine running, and a timing light hooked up to the #1 plug wire, the pointer and the line on the balancer line up, right? The only thing I see as a problem, is, you have to move your timing TAPE. Am I seeing this wrong, or what? There's 4 lines on the balancer, because our engines are 4 stroke, Intake BTDC/ATDC & Exhaust BTDC/ATDC...

[swervin ervin]

Eric,

read this. It explains what you nees to do to get it right.

http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/driv.../newengine.htm

Also, if you keep spinning this engine trying to get it to fire, you're going to kill the cam. It needs to fire up instantly with no long cranking.

[TwinTurbo]

1) Never trust any balancer marking-timng pointer combo
2) mark your balancer yourself with a TDC tool
3) read up on stabbing dizzys and swapping plug wires and terminals when re orienting the dizzy for i.e. vac canister clearance

[bpmcgee]

Don't forget that if you installed your distributor based upon the assumed TDC, then your distributor will also be 90 degrees off.

Also, the #1 cylinder will blow as soon as the intake closes and you start the compression stroke. TDC doesn't occur until about 90 degrees later, when the piston reaches the limit of it's compression travel. In order to accurately figure TDC with your engine assembled, you really need one of those TDC feelers.


Brian

[low 84]

Originally posted by bpmcgee
Don't forget that if you installed your distributor based upon the assumed TDC, then your distributor will also be 90 degrees off.

Also, the #1 cylinder will blow as soon as the intake closes and you start the compression stroke. TDC doesn't occur until about 90 degrees later, when the piston reaches the limit of it's compression travel. In order to accurately figure TDC with your engine assembled, you really need one of those TDC feelers.


Brian

exactly. eric just because you felt air blowing out dosen't mean you are at tdc, it just means you are somewhere on the compression stroke

[ocbaud]

Originally posted by low 84


exactly. eric just because you felt air blowing out dosen't mean you are at tdc, it just means you are somewhere on the compression stroke

does it matter that the timing mark lined up with the pointer as soon as it quick blowing out air?

[TwinTurbo]

no, if the balancer slips it's still all a big guess. Get one of those TDC tools that screws in the spark plug and install a degree wheel, it's the only proper way to find TDC with the heads on the engine.