Starting the overall replacement of front suspension today :-) drop time.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by PaPaStewySnipes

If anyone wants to know a good rust killer my mix is 10oz white vinegar, 15oz water, and 2oz of krud kutter must for rust. Put in spray bottle keep parts damp with it for 2 hrs or more depending on your rust. Will turn black. Cost is about $6 total from Wal-Mart. This works if anyone is interested. Rinse with water and wipe off surface rust your good to go. I spray suspension parts with a rust reformer also afterwards and top coat it afterwards. Always has worked well.

Papa your concoction is the cat's meow. I already had a water/vinegar batch made up, which I've used over and over again, because it's still relatively clear. Anyway, I added a dose of KleanStrip Prep & Etch (phosphoric acid) to it. About 3/4 cup to maybe 1.5 gallons of water/vinegar.

What a difference! I put an axle plate in the bath for about 17 hours. The rust is coming off quite easily, and I mean QUITE easily. I knocked off the surface and threw it back in the bath. Will let it sit another hour or so. Then I'll hit with oil/brush. These plates will come out like new. Thank you.

Edit: Not "like" new, I just got excited. The inside plate is like new, the outside has some pitting, but not bad. SLOW process. Yeah blasting would be nice. I don't have one, and they want $35 a part.

[PaPaStewySnipes]

Yea klean strip etch stuff works good too it is right next to krud cutter must for rust at walmart great to add a bit for heavy rust removal after a couple tries you will find the sweet spot. it is a little bit more potent great for heavy rust, it will etch the metal if left in to long it does help with adhesion. The batch I was using was mostly for converting and pits, I sprayed on waited for them to turn black. But yes that stuff works great with vinegar and water, just do not add to much... You can always add more but cant go back.

[PaPaStewySnipes]

I do not agree with paying over $25 a gallon for some strip mix when you can make same stuff for different applications, and make a mix perfect for your task. Glad it worked.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by PaPaStewySnipes

Yea klean strip etch stuff works good too it is right next to krud cutter must for rust at walmart great to add a bit for heavy rust removal after a couple tries you will find the sweet spot. it is a little bit more potent great for heavy rust, it will etch the metal if left in to long it does help with adhesion. The batch I was using was mostly for converting and pits, I sprayed on waited for them to turn black. But yes that stuff works great with vinegar and water, just do not add to much... You can always add more but cant go back.

Etching the metal should be okay if rinsed off well, I hope? I also soak in a baking soda bath afterwards. I'm not ready to finish, so that's why I'm curious.

Yeah, and obviously I misunderstood your formula. For some reason I "remembered" phosphoric acid. I'll try the must for rust. Sounds real good. I needed the phosphoric anyway.

[PaPaStewySnipes]

I did a test bath once before, totaly immersed with a stronger mix for a badly rusted radiator clamp for 30hrs to see what it would do and I did notice etching of the metal in areas that had little if any rust, I wasnt worried about it, primer stuck good and filled it in. Yes I soda rinsed it and rinsed it good again, used a ready wipe then I primed it black and it looks new off the line. I have a pic of it up. Some parts you may not want pitting from dip stripping like control arms, so I got them clean as I could with a wire wheel and wire brush after soaking in a medium strength KK mix i sprayed on for 45min, did it again, then used a weaker converter spray I made to convert rust in pits and tight areas, was very easy and quick took me about 2hrs to have both arms ready for paint, I did minimal work. Worked very well. You will get the feel of it and make a mix how you need it. I simply always try to not over do it, you should be fine. Just clean it well with baking soda to neutralize like you said your doing and rinse good. Show me a pic of what your working on. That kleanStrip stuff will work the same it is just more potent. Most of the time you can not find out the exact amount of acid in that stuff on the bottle, you find out by using it and by googling. You will really be able to tell by using it. I have used both. A very strong mix will remove and weak will convert over time.

[PaPaStewySnipes]

Well got the booster setup bolted up and master bench bled before dinner tonight. Tomorrow moring I will start running my lines finally, been enjoying the time off with my wife and son, it is time to get back on my project.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

I did a test bath once before, totaly immersed with a stronger mix for a badly rusted radiator clamp for 30hrs to see what it would do and I did notice etching of the metal in areas that had little if any rust, I wasnt worried about it, primer stuck good and filled it in. Just looked up the meaning of etched metal. Basically eats it. How do you recognize unintended etching? Can't say I've seen it, and nothing pops up on the web.

Yes I soda rinsed it and rinsed it good again, used a ready wipe then I primed it black and it looks new off the line. I've become a believer in soda baths. If interested, post 17 is how I've been cleaning parts. Sometimes it's days between the vinegar bath and soda, but the parts come out nice. Small parts are going to be zinc plated. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=730025


I have a pic of it up. Some parts you may not want pitting from dip stripping like control arms, so I got them clean as I could with a wire wheel and wire brush after soaking in a medium strength KK mix i sprayed on for 45min, did it again, then used a weaker converter spray I made to convert rust in pits and tight areas, was very easy and quick took me about 2hrs to have both arms ready for paint, I did minimal work. Worked very well. You will get the feel of it and make a mix how you need it. will give it a go. On a side, haven't taken my control arms off yet, but I suspect they're clean. The beauty of the environment. They're coming soon, there's not much else on the frame.

I simply always try to not over do it, you should be fine. Just clean it well with baking soda to neutralize like you said your doing and rinse good. Show me a pic of what your working on. That kleanStrip stuff will work the same it is just more potent. Most of the time you can not find out the exact amount of acid in that stuff on the bottle, you find out by using it and by googling. You will really be able to tell by using it. I have used both. Understood, thanks. Now you did it, made me drag it out. Picture and captions a thousand words. BUT, I oiled this for two reasons. One it helps the cleaning. Two, though I rinse parts off after a rust bath, it will be two days before this sees a soda bath. I don't know, seems oil would help neutralize acid........................................... Until this I've only used vinegar, water, oil and soda. I don't know, seems vinegar/water isn't much of an etch though. I'll use the Must for Rust on the next plate. One at a time is enough.

[PaPaStewySnipes]

You can feel the etching if not seeing it, might feel like 400 grit sand paper. Means you have to much acid and getting to metal after being soaked for to long. I dont think having a stronger acid bath isnt bad as long as you do not leave it in long and bust out the elbow grease when it has done its job quickly. That's why ive used a bit of that krud kutter with vinegar and water instead of simply phosphoric acid and water for converter baths. it works great and doesnt etch metal unless you leave it for a week after rust is gone. I dont know what is all in it besides a bit phosphoric acid but I add a bit to how I need it in my mix and it gets the job done better and safely, much quicker than water and vinegar alone.

Yea your are deffintly converting any remaining rust in the first picture. Keep it up it is looking good, I did same thing with a light wire brush on my parts. After a bit of the brush and few soaks you see the remaining surface rust wipe off and black left in any tiny rust pits, that is when it is done. Just as extra precaution when I see even less rust left on my parts I add water to weaken it and slow the process down because I know there is less rust from when I started, and more exposed metal. I believe that keeps you from eating into metal even better if it has been a problem. I have heared of some stuff called metal rescue does same thing and even safer, I haven't tried it my self, nor will i pay $50 for 2 gallons of the stuff. I think your doing great.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by PaPaStewySnipes

You can feel the etching if not seeing it, might feel like 400 grit sand paper. Means you have to much acid and getting to metal after being soaked for to long. I dont think having a stronger acid bath isnt bad as long as you do not leave it in long and bust out the elbow grease when it has done its job quickly. That's why ive used a bit of that krud kutter with vinegar and water instead of simply phosphoric acid and water for converter baths. it works great and doesnt etch metal unless you leave it for a week after rust is gone. I dont know what is all in it besides a bit phosphoric acid but I add a bit to how I need it in my mix and it gets the job done better and safely, much quicker than water and vinegar alone.

Yea your are deffintly converting any remaining rust in the first picture. Keep it up it is looking good, I did same thing with a light wire brush on my parts. After a bit of the brush and few soaks you see the remaining surface rust wipe off and black left in any tiny rust pits, that is when it is done. Just as extra precaution when I see even less rust left on my parts I add water to weaken it and slow the process down because I know there is less rust from when I started, and more exposed metal. I believe that keeps you from eating into metal even better if it has been a problem. I have heared of some stuff called metal rescue does same thing and even safer, I haven't tried it my self, nor will i pay $50 for 2 gallons of the stuff. I think your doing great.

Thanks Papa. I understand now, and think I've seen deep etching on a few parts. They were bad to begin with, ended up "salty" and pitted. They're at the dump.

[PaPaStewySnipes]

You dumped them? i am getting my lines together now as I type, hot day but a lot of work to get done. Will be in the garage 5-8 hrs today taking my time. Has anyone bled a master while on the truck and have any issues?

[PaPaStewySnipes]

Bending lines today, a bit tediius. I am using nicop lines. Can bend it with your hands fairly easy. A trick I learned is if doing an exact copy of an old line is to remove old lines that you are bending new replacements that are exactly the same. Tape the end of your new line to the end of the old, using the old as leverage follow the pattern while working with both lines in your fingers, tape together with painters tape as your progress and comes out exact. Do not even have to use a bender with nicop tube, it is very easy to work with if you have working man hands.

[PaPaStewySnipes]

Flares are coming out good, no issues. Using pen tool from AutoZone I rented for free. Use a tad bit or brake fluid as lube and been going smooth. Test will come when looking for leaks.

[PaPaStewySnipes]

Coming along well, i have all front lines fitted and ready to hook up at master after I flare. I sanded the tip of the line a tad bit to get it more flat before making my flares that seemed to help, havent had a bad one yet. I feel as if I'm doing well for this being my the first time replacing brake lines. If you guys have any tips in the build let me know, I am open ears.

[PaPaStewySnipes]

Front drivers done, what a task.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by PaPaStewySnipes

Bending lines today, a bit tediius. I am using nicop lines. Can bend it with your hands fairly easy. A trick I learned is if doing an exact copy of an old line is to remove old lines that you are bending new replacements that are exactly the same. Tape the end of your new line to the end of the old, using the old as leverage follow the pattern while working with both lines in your fingers, tape together with painters tape as your progress and comes out exact. Do not even have to use a bender with nicop tube, it is very easy to work with if you have working man hands.

Nice work on everything, and great idea. I'm taking the easy way out, ready made brake lines.

Yeah I "dumped them". Just a few bolts, U-nuts and such. Not many. That plate came out nice BTW. One to go and I'll share a pic.

[PaPaStewySnipes]

One of my finished dust shields, you do not want to see what it looked like before.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

My truck will probably see an ECE 4/2.5 drop. It has leaf springs as well. You're dropping it 4" front and back?

I haven't pulled my suspension yet. I've recently pondered how to ensure the rear axle (pinion) lines up vertically when assembled?

Horizontally looks straight forward, because the leaf spring pads & U-bolt holes are welded onto the axle. Add a tape measure for perfectly square, but I doubt there's much play.

[PaPaStewySnipes]

In doing 4" up front and 5-6 in the rear. For the rear I have 4" drop leaf, need to order shackles. Hard part there is not many available for 2.25 leafs. Djm has some part# SH1012C2, ECE has some that are 1.5" drop bit I'm not sure exactly what I need to have a perfect level truck so havent bought some yet, even though about buying some 2.5 wide shackles and using two 1/8" washers to make it perfect, think cpp has some as well, do you know of any others? ECE said axle should be fine on a leaf truck after the rear drop because I will not be going more than 6" havent been able to confirm on my own yet. I will by next weekend and post up some pics, I slowed down on the work some because of a cold. Weather changing always gets me a head cold.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by PaPaStewySnipes

In doing 4" up front and 5-6 in the rear. For the rear I have 4" drop leaf, need to order shackles. Hard part there is not many available for 2.25 leafs. Djm has some part# SH1012C2, ECE has some that are 1.5" drop bit I'm not sure exactly what I need to have a perfect level truck so havent bought some yet, even though about buying some 2.5 wide shackles and using two 1/8" washers to make it perfect, think cpp has some as well, do you know of any others? ECE said axle should be fine on a leaf truck after the rear drop because I will not be going more than 6" havent been able to confirm on my own yet. I will by next weekend and post up some pics, I slowed down on the work some because of a cold. Weather changing always gets me a head cold.

Yep, warm weather is about done. I'm not much familiar with drops. You may have to relocate your shock mounts at the rear, which I believe is the top mounts. ECE tells me the existing mount locations are fine with a 4" leaf drop, which may mean more than that requires a mod.

[PaPaStewySnipes]

Yea I am going to have to check that out. Havent done much to the rear yet. Almost finished with front. If I remember even with a flip on rear you may not have to relocate shocks, this being a leaf only rear. I have belltech rear drop shocks to go on front and back. I have worked on many cars, and very capable however this is first time I have dropped a truck, bent brake lines, replaced whole complete brake system, or replaced spindles. This is a great community of people that will hell you on your way with any questions. You just have to get to it. Let me know if you find out before me.

[54Caddy]

Been there with a customers truck using all ECE parts and was a leaf spring truck. We had his at 4.5/6 front would be more level at 4/6 but you’ll have a slight rake. Western chassis makes a 2 in drop shackle for these leaf springs.

[PaPaStewySnipes]

I liked their 4" drop leafs I got, a quality piece. What is the part number on those shackles? And your saying it is more level at 4/6 or will have a rake at 4/6. One other question did you have to relocate shocks? For front I have 3" belltech spindle and 1" spring. Just have to finish up getting shackles for rear.

[54Caddy]

I think it’d still have a slight rake at 4/6. Shocks were just left as is. Rear end was from a 73 on up truck so maybe mounts are different on differential then stick diff. Western 2002

[PaPaStewySnipes]

Appreacite it buddy.

[54Caddy]

No problem