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#26 |
At the body shop.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Land of fruits and nuts.
Posts: 5,214
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
You'll be fine with out the power brakes the right master cylinder.
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" That didnt make it any newer " " Dont antique the equipment " |
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#27 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Dillsboro, IN
Posts: 87
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
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#28 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,332
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
I would say IF you've had a vehicle with manual brakes before and know what you're getting into, ok... but I don't think you'll be happy with a very modern motor and very retro braking.
I can't tell if you've had this same truck and drove it as is, in which case you already know what you're getting into and should be fine. If it were me, I'd want to add power discs up front. The LS motor makes a lot more power than the 307 or whatever you had before, and best to upgrade power and stopping at the same time, I figure.
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1970 GMC Sierra Grande Custom Camper - Built, not Bought 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Coupe 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Convertible |
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#29 | |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: brownfield texas (west texas)
Posts: 1,936
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The Ghost 67 short wide full custom. 550 hp LSX, 4l80E, narrowed 9". Body dropped w/air ride! ........................ ___ .........________//__{\_____ ,,,,,,,/__(⊙)___//___/__(O)_/ @disciple2.rc 💪instagram💪 LED TAILS |
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#30 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Homedale, Idaho
Posts: 160
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
Rob, I have manual drums on my C20. No complaints, just confused on the "type" you are referring to. If I can improve, I will.
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Grandpa ![]() 1989 GMC K2500 1958 Alaskan Camper all original WORK : A necessary evil that finances what I really like to do. |
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#31 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: brownfield texas (west texas)
Posts: 1,936
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
I run a wilwood tandem master with a 7:1 ratio pedal stock 72 front disc, and gm metric disc on back and it works fine. I also have a very nice pedal feel. Much like a power break feel.
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The Ghost 67 short wide full custom. 550 hp LSX, 4l80E, narrowed 9". Body dropped w/air ride! ........................ ___ .........________//__{\_____ ,,,,,,,/__(⊙)___//___/__(O)_/ @disciple2.rc 💪instagram💪 LED TAILS Last edited by Robznob11; 04-11-2018 at 02:48 PM. |
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#32 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,437
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
This is an interesting thread in many ways.
"It will be just fine" has shown up in nearly every post. "Just Fine" as opposed to "Good" or "Better"? Many here feel that his original Six would be "Just Fine" instead of a new LS. This isn't 1970. In 1970 you were riding on skinny bias-ply tires and P disc and 4 wl disc effectiveness would have been limited. In 1970 people weren't in as big a hurry and didn't tail-gate like today. Yes, manual drum brakes will stop you, eventually, or should I say "Just Fine". Just don't expect them to bring a 4000# truck to a halt fast enough for todays demands. When my 6 cyl truck had drum brakes, 4.56 gears and I drove 60 in the slow lane, it was "Fine". Today I drive 75 in the fast lane and when every brake light in front of me comes ON, I know "Fine" would have never been good enough to get me down to 20 mph before hitting the guy in front of me. If you think manual steering is better than P steering on the hyw, you probably needed an alignment. You're out of your mind if you think 5:1 ratio is fun with todays congestion, compact parking and 10 cars annoyed at you arm wrestling an old truck into a parallel parking space. Choosing an expensive Wilwood MC w/out power, simply means you chose "looks" over brake effectiveness. "Fine" over good or better. It may look good, but you know Wilwood will advise you differently, if you want more braking than a Trailer Queen needs. Todays conditions, demand better than "Fine", if you're going for todays power. Still a six, but 4bbl, headers, etc, 3.54 gears, P steer, P brakes and of course AC, all of which makes for a much, much more enjoyable ride.
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'67 GMC 2500, 292, 4spd, AC Last edited by RichardJ; 04-11-2018 at 02:31 PM. |
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#33 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Homedale, Idaho
Posts: 160
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
Thanks. Something I will look into. I'm planning on changing to a GM disc front and firming up the suspension. The rear with overloads is solid enough to haul the camper just fine. The rear is an HO52 with a pinion bolt 4:10. I have no trouble with the brakes for now, but entertain the idea of changing that to disc also. I have plenty of power, but the original motor is tired.
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Grandpa ![]() 1989 GMC K2500 1958 Alaskan Camper all original WORK : A necessary evil that finances what I really like to do. |
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#34 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 3,090
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
Quote:
Granted, the ratio and the lack of power assist does have its drawbacks, most notably in situations where the driver is forced to steer the truck while the truck is either not moving or moving very, very slowly. Even so, the manual box is meant to help overcome these issues and so makes the task doable even with today's large diameter and width wheel and tire combos. Lack of power steering seems to scare people who have never experienced it before. Seems like most folk actually believe that a no PS car or truck is as hard to steer as a PS car or truck without the engine running! Simply not true. -klb
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi 07 335 sport turbo 6sp 94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs 99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold 73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend 68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold |
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#35 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,437
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
>>makes the task doable<< is akin to "Fine".
I've had this same truck since '85 and half of that time was with manual steering. I do know what a 50 year old truck with manual steering feels like. I only wondered why I didn't do it sooner. In the '70s I put a 413 Chrysler, P steering and P brakes in a '48 Dodge truck. I didn't like the Manual steering in it either. When I want to feel the road, I get behind the wheel of something else besides an old truck.
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'67 GMC 2500, 292, 4spd, AC |
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#36 | |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: brownfield texas (west texas)
Posts: 1,936
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The Ghost 67 short wide full custom. 550 hp LSX, 4l80E, narrowed 9". Body dropped w/air ride! ........................ ___ .........________//__{\_____ ,,,,,,,/__(⊙)___//___/__(O)_/ @disciple2.rc 💪instagram💪 LED TAILS Last edited by Robznob11; 04-11-2018 at 03:11 PM. |
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#37 |
At the body shop.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Land of fruits and nuts.
Posts: 5,214
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
I did away with both power steering and brakes on my 73 like it as much or better than before.
It's not a daily driver, it's a fun hot rod. And stops from 110 mph 1/4 mile passes just fine every time. It has a better pedal than my other 3 pickups with power assist brakes. One of is hydra boost which is the worst pedal of the group. It'll be just fine.
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" That didnt make it any newer " " Dont antique the equipment " |
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#38 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 3,090
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi 07 335 sport turbo 6sp 94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs 99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold 73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend 68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold |
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#39 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: brandon, ms
Posts: 384
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
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#40 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: brownfield texas (west texas)
Posts: 1,936
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
I like it, I don't feel I need power! Will they throw you through the window....eeeehhh probably not. But it didn't do that when I had power either. I would step up in brake size before I would add power. But that's my .02
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The Ghost 67 short wide full custom. 550 hp LSX, 4l80E, narrowed 9". Body dropped w/air ride! ........................ ___ .........________//__{\_____ ,,,,,,,/__(⊙)___//___/__(O)_/ @disciple2.rc 💪instagram💪 LED TAILS |
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#41 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Godley, TX
Posts: 17,963
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
Well, back to the OP question. The answer is no, you don't need ps or pb. But the question is whether you want them.. A booster won't improve braking perf, as several have correctly pointed out - just makes it less effort to stop exactly the same as you do today. If you're dropping in more hp, why not take the time now to actually improve the braking and upgrade the front to stock 71/72 disks? A perfectly tuned drum setup will not stop you as well as a bone stock disk setup. I've driven both in several different vehicles as I'm sure most all of us have, and while there are certainly scenarios where manual brakes are appropriate for space, originality, or you name it - your stated goal is for cruising and you're also not staying original with a new motor. Make it a cruiser and add ps and pb disks and you will not regret it. There is a reason all vehicles come with all this nowadays. These are pretty basic swaps that lots of folks have done and for which there is a ton of info on this board alone. CaptainFab makes a slick, close to the firewall bracket that makes adding a booster super-easy and compact. Anyway - I guess my point is that you already know what a manual drum setup feels like and you know what an ps/pb vehicle feels like - so, that kinda makes everyone's individual opinions (mine included) kind of irrelevant - all that matters is which setup you prefer. I think that is the reason some prefer manual steering on the highway over old school "full" power, is because it requires such a light touch compared to today's power assist steering setups, so manual gives the perception of more road feel. But ps wasn't exactly invented for highway driving, it was invented for very low-speed maneuvering around a parking lot to reduce effort. Anyway, for me personally, I still prefer ps, I actually prefer it to the modern assist-style, highway or parking lot, but that's just me. All up to you - I do think you would enjoy your truck more as a cruiser if you take the time (and $) to make the upgrades to ps and pb disk. Time and $ don't always allow, but they are good upgrades for when time and $ do allow. The only safety improvement is the disk upgrade, power or not doesn't matter. Have fun!
Last edited by jocko; 04-21-2018 at 10:38 AM. |
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#42 | |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: brownfield texas (west texas)
Posts: 1,936
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
Quote:
One last thing, yes I know I know opinions are like butts everyone has one.....I'm just trying to state the facts... it's up to each person to make their decisions!
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The Ghost 67 short wide full custom. 550 hp LSX, 4l80E, narrowed 9". Body dropped w/air ride! ........................ ___ .........________//__{\_____ ,,,,,,,/__(⊙)___//___/__(O)_/ @disciple2.rc 💪instagram💪 LED TAILS Last edited by Robznob11; 04-21-2018 at 03:37 PM. |
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#43 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: formerly NY currentlyNC
Posts: 390
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
had my truck since 1975...the drums weren't adequate so i put a 75 suburban crossmember in it in about 1979 for the discs....retained the manual master and drove it that way for 20 years....and it was a tow truck...stopped fine...even with a car on the hook....when i did the resto i pulled the wrecker boom off...only then did i put in a disc brake master and proportioning valve ....disc and drum both the same bore, only difference was the bigger resevoir....
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1970 short step c10 leaf spring 454 |
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#44 | |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Godley, TX
Posts: 17,963
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
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#45 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: KINGSPORT,TN.
Posts: 3,035
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Re: Do I really need power brakes?
If you have strong legs and arms / shoulders run manuel. If you load / tow heavy better do power
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I BELIEVE IN JOHN 3:16 |
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